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Equipment Discussions >> Observatories

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Raginar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: JoeT6571]
      #5318714 - 07/15/12 11:25 AM

I put felt underneath my steel roof just in case. However, I haven't noticed any condensation on mine. Beautiful roof; I agree you could've done it yourself but there is nothing better than just having to put them together on the roof .

Good job!


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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: JoeT6571]
      #5318852 - 07/15/12 12:52 PM

My roof is metal over plywood, with tarpaper in between. I've never experienced any condensation whatsoever.

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Peter L.
super member


Reged: 04/19/08

Loc: PEI, Canada
Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: csa/montana]
      #5319874 - 07/16/12 08:04 AM

Unless the roof space is super ventilated, you will have condensation on the under side of the metal. And I'm not sure it's possible to ensure constant air flow all the time, so best to go with sheathing and then tar paper underneath the metal. I'd personally go with 30 lbs. tar paper vs. the standard 15 lbs.

Peter


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Al8236
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/18/10

Loc: 48.9173N 122.1390W
Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: Peter L.]
      #5319976 - 07/16/12 09:56 AM

If you can I would try to locate the vinyl encapsulated fiberglass that they use in steel building construction.
Light weight, the vinyl contains any dust. You just roll it out over your perlins and lay the metal right over top.
I believe you can get it in 1" and it compresses to basically nothing between the perlin and metal.
Just bare metal will cause it to "rain" inside the building in the right conditions.


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JoeT6571
member


Reged: 03/11/12

Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: Al8236]
      #5326921 - 07/20/12 01:34 PM Attachment (44 downloads)

After a few days off (95 degrees one day, two days of rain) I made a little progress yesterday. I installed the purlins, gable ends, and facia boards. One side of the roof is square, the other side is a little off. I'm going to blame sweep in the rafters for this problem. Why would I want to blame me?

I decided to install the metal roof directly on the purlins. If I get a condensation problem I will insulate the roof with foam panels. That will weigh much less than sheeting the roof with OSB and installing tar paper under the metal.

I was up early this morning ready to begin screwing on the metal roof. My friend arrived at 8 am and we got everything ready to go. That's when I discovered that I had inadvertently purchased two different styles of roof vent closures instead of buying a set for the roof vent and a different style closure for the eaves. They are not interchangeable and no one in town sells what I need. Since the inside closure strips need to be installed before the metal is installed, this project came to a screaming halt. So we cleaned up and I'll have to hurry up and wait until I get the right supplies.


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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
*****

Reged: 11/17/05

Loc: Always Dark skies of Belfair W...
Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: JoeT6571]
      #5327003 - 07/20/12 02:29 PM Attachment (37 downloads)

Quote:

After a few days off (95 degrees one day, two days of rain) I made a little progress yesterday. I installed the purlins, gable ends, and facia boards. One side of the roof is square, the other side is a little off. I'm going to blame sweep in the rafters for this problem. Why would I want to blame me?

I decided to install the metal roof directly on the purlins. If I get a condensation problem I will insulate the roof with foam panels. That will weigh much less than sheeting the roof with OSB and installing tar paper under the metal.

I was up early this morning ready to begin screwing on the metal roof. My friend arrived at 8 am and we got everything ready to go. That's when I discovered that I had inadvertently purchased two different styles of roof vent closures instead of buying a set for the roof vent and a different style closure for the eaves. They are not interchangeable and no one in town sells what I need. Since the inside closure strips need to be installed before the metal is installed, this project came to a screaming halt. So we cleaned up and I'll have to hurry up and wait until I get the right supplies.




Looks great..a word of advice: It will sweat and drip all over your equipment, if you don't place some kind of barrior under the metal. I had a friend staple down this plastic first then layed the metal over it. It helped considerably.

I just skipped the entire problem and added PVC roofing instead. it comes in the same dimentions as the metal and is UV rated. It lets in awesome amounts of light and it doesn't drip. Meaning you can skip paper..plastic...whatever. I wanted my building to be bright and light during the day when the roof is closed. With a metal roof..you're in the dark during the day and you need lights to see much of anything.

No runs, drips, or errors. Light and dry.

Rob


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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
*****

Reged: 11/17/05

Loc: Always Dark skies of Belfair W...
Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #5327033 - 07/20/12 02:54 PM Attachment (40 downloads)

And a bright interior. During the day its so light inside its rediculous. I can work in there no problem. Not adding much weight to the roof it really adds to the ease of roof roll off.

I planned on using metal myself...I'd never go that route now and you can see why.

What ever..habve a good time and enjoy.

See how bright during the day. Its like being outside.

It also doesn't trap heat, it blocks the bad boys and I can easily vent with my big industrial fans.

Rob


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JoeT6571
member


Reged: 03/11/12

Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #5327151 - 07/20/12 04:21 PM

Rob,

Now that is a great solution. I really like your system. If I didn't have everything purchased already, I might change systems.

I also love your hip trusses. So much more head room.


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JoeT6571
member


Reged: 03/11/12

Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: JoeT6571]
      #5333276 - 07/24/12 03:21 PM Attachment (35 downloads)

It has been hotter than blazes here in Hayward. This has really put a crimp on my enthusiasm, but some progress has been made. Yesterday I put siding on two sides of the observatory and today I got one side of the roof sheeted.

I learned a good lesson siding the east wall. I squared up the siding with the wall and started working my way across. That was a mistake. As I worked my way across the wall I had to make minor adjustments to the sheets as I worked my way across to keep things in line. This is noticeable at the top and bottom of the sheets. I should have squared up the first sheet with the bottom of my wood foundation. That way the sheets would march across the observatory in a straight line and any "out of squareness" would be covered up with trim at the end of the wall.

When I built my foundation I recessed the bolts into the beams so my siding would be flat when I covered the foundation. After drilling the bolt hole through the beam, I used a 1 inch wood bit and drilled into the beam just enough for the bolt head and washer.

Before I started with the metal on the roof I build a jig reproducing my roof on the ground. I used a sheet of plywood and 2 x 4's and screwed the 2 x 4's into the plywood exactly where my purlins were located. Then I stacked three sheets of metal and placed them over my fake roof so I could drill holes exactly where my screws needed to go. That way the screw holes all line up and I'm not doing a balancing act on the roof trying to hit the purlin centers. This worked very well.


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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
*****

Reged: 11/17/05

Loc: Always Dark skies of Belfair W...
Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: JoeT6571]
      #5333340 - 07/24/12 03:55 PM

I Originally worried about square myself..but was pleasenty suprised that my 4x8 sheets went up spot on and since my OB is a square 18x18..I had little waste. My roof was spot on square and the roofing pannels went on straight as an arrow with exactly 12" over hang as I designed and proper overlap of panels. The only issue I thought I might have was rolling the huge roof off and it binding..but I made sure cross bracing and good even draw from both sides with the cable and drum system was established. I just flip a switch and the motors take it out and in...now I don't have to lift a FINGER.

Good luck and stay cool.

Looking great thus far. How are you going to control the condensation from the metal roof?

Rob


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JoeT6571
member


Reged: 03/11/12

Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #5333485 - 07/24/12 05:16 PM

I'm hoping that good ventilation will prevent condensation. I have the observatory elevated off the ground. The ground is covered with thick plastic under the foundation. The peak, eaves, and gable ends will all be vented.

If after all this, I still have a condensation issue, I will buy 4 x 8 insulation panels, cut them to size and insulate the metal between the rafters.


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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
*****

Reged: 11/17/05

Loc: Always Dark skies of Belfair W...
Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: JoeT6571]
      #5333775 - 07/24/12 08:33 PM

Quote:

I'm hoping that good ventilation will prevent condensation. I have the observatory elevated off the ground. The ground is covered with thick plastic under the foundation. The peak, eaves, and gable ends will all be vented.

If after all this, I still have a condensation issue, I will buy 4 x 8 insulation panels, cut them to size and insulate the metal between the rafters.




I hope you find great success. I also vented the gable ends the peak and the eaves. All my venting is screaned off to keep out critters(though they sometimes find a way in). I have a long extendable pole for knocking down any nests before they get started and a duster that attaches to the extender pole for dusting the scope up high during summer months and I cover the entire thing with thin visqueen to protect it during winter months and I keep a 64 watt bulb on continuesly year round at the base of the pier to detract humidity.



More pics when you can.

Rob


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Retsub
super member
*****

Reged: 12/08/06

Loc: Houston,Tx.
Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: rwiederrich]
      #5334128 - 07/25/12 02:33 AM

Joe T said >I'm hoping that good ventilation will prevent condensation< Yes and no. The problem may show up when there is a big temp change quickly and make it sweat underneath. Ever been in a small building or utility trailer with a little heat inside and see how quickly it sweats ? I wouldn't use foam either as it can trap moisture inside also. Not sure how much summer heat you get for your area but a good radiant barrier can block the uv easily but don't use the bubble wrap stuff since it can't breathe like a good radiant barrier can. Good rule of thumb is don't insulate unless you intend to climate control the area. You probably know what a damp Igloo cooler closed can lead to inside. Florida Solar Energy web site has lots of tests and info too. Hope some of this makes sence. Thanks. *BW*

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HunterofPhotons
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/26/08

Loc: Rhode Island, USA
Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: JoeT6571]
      #5334779 - 07/25/12 01:11 PM

Quote:

... I should have squared up the first sheet with the bottom of my wood foundation. That way the sheets would march across the observatory in a straight line and any "out of squareness" would be covered up with trim at the end of the wall....




The preferred method of framers is to measure up at each end and snap a chalk line. The sheets are laid to this line.

dan k.


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JoeT6571
member


Reged: 03/11/12

Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: HunterofPhotons]
      #5336098 - 07/26/12 07:29 AM Attachment (22 downloads)

When I sheeted the drop down windows, I left an overhang of about 1/2 inch around the perimeter. That way the wind can't blow though the opening.

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JoeT6571
member


Reged: 03/11/12

Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: JoeT6571]
      #5336102 - 07/26/12 07:30 AM Attachment (24 downloads)

I installed flashing at the base of each window. I might install a rubber gasket on the vertical seams (old bicycle tube material) if they aren't weather-proof enough.

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roscoe
curmudgeon
*****

Reged: 02/04/09

Loc: NW Mass, inches from VT
Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: JoeT6571]
      #5336117 - 07/26/12 07:54 AM

Looking real fine, Joe!!
Russ

PS the trick you devised of pre-drilling the roofing is pretty standard in the metal roofing biz, you invented it just right! It makes it worlds easier to get the screws in, just drop 'em in the holes.

Also, for our readers, don't use the torque adjustment on your drill, tighten them by eye, because if you hit a knot, the screw won't tighten, and it'll leak, also a soft spot might split the rubber washer, also a leak.


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Starman27
Post Laureate
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Reged: 01/29/06

Loc: Illinois, Iowa
Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: roscoe]
      #5336188 - 07/26/12 08:51 AM

Really coming together, did you crush your large prbbles to get the stones around the observatory?

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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: JoeT6571]
      #5336255 - 07/26/12 09:40 AM

It's really coming along beautifully! You will wonder how you got along without it, after your first night in it, observing!

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rwiederrich
Goldfinger
*****

Reged: 11/17/05

Loc: Always Dark skies of Belfair W...
Re: Pebble Hill Observatory new [Re: JoeT6571]
      #5336720 - 07/26/12 02:03 PM

Joe..looking very nice...are your walls 6 or 7 ft? I like your drop walls..you must be using a Dob. I had to use 8ft walls and that vaulted ceiling..cuz I use a 10"f/15 refractor on its 8ft pier. My CN friend Jeff B built a similar OB as mine for his big refractor with vaulted ceilings too. I'm always curious why many folks don't build vaulted ceilings in their OB's...it really doesn't cost more if built correctly.

Anyway..your build has been fun to watch..and you built it very nicely. What did its final dimentions come out to be for the interior of the viewing area? I like the small outside deck too.

Rob


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