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Equipment Discussions >> Video and Electronically Assisted Astronomy

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mpgxsvcd
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5291835 - 06/27/12 04:32 PM

Thanks for all of the info guys. This may just be the answer to my tracking problems.

I can't wait to see what results I can get if I can finally accurately track for more than 30 seconds.


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nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5291994 - 06/27/12 06:01 PM

Quote:

....I really don’t want this to become a Malincam vs. the world discussion. Your images with the Malincam are extraordinary. I am definitely hoping to one day be able to equal them. However, specifically with M16 and the Horse Head I have not come close yet.

I often wonder why this forum specifically is so one sided? It just seems that if someone tries to find a new way to do near real time viewing then the immediate response is to attempt to discredit the method’s used. Which is fine if your intent is to also help try to resolve those issues to the fullest extent as well.

It just seems that if someone posts images from anything other than a Malincam that are not up to the standards the response is “Get a Malincam”. If someone posts results that are decent then you get virtually no response at all so that the thread gets buried at the bottom of the page. And if someone posts less than stellar images from a Malincam the response is always positive and insightful as to how to improve those images.

I thought the intent of this forum was to help further the real time viewing experience no matter what methods and devices you are using?


How true Travis. Keep those alternative 'video'/imaging options coming with different cams etc

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Chris A
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5292581 - 06/28/12 12:48 AM

All 3 images are much better and well done Travis. Great job and keep the DSLR images coming please.

Clear skies

Chris A


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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: Chris A]
      #5292972 - 06/28/12 10:38 AM

I would place higher confidence in a polar borescope alignment than I would in a software-based approach! If your borescope is properly aligned within the mount, you can get to within 2 arcminutes of the pole. I doubt the multi-star software procedure can do better than 5 arcminutes. The final arbiter, of course, is a drift alignment, which permits to better than 1 arcminute.

Remember that polar misalignment results only in drift in declination. If you see elongated stars with a RA component, your drive rate is the issue. If there is no N-S elongation, your alignment is good enough, at least in for tracking in that part of the sky.


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mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5293066 - 06/28/12 11:46 AM

Celestron's All Star polar alignment routine is considered to be at least the equal of the polar scope - and without all the fiddling of the rotational alignment etc. For most folks the software driven routine (and you still physically move the mount) is faster and more accurate than the scope.

It's actually rare to find a polar scope on the higher end Celestron mounts (CGE, CGEPro).


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mpgxsvcd
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: Chris A]
      #5293241 - 06/28/12 01:21 PM

Quote:

All 3 images are much better and well done Travis. Great job and keep the DSLR images coming please.

Clear skies

Chris A




Thanks. Technically these are not DSLRs though. These cameras don't have mirrors.

Edited by mpgxsvcd (06/28/12 01:21 PM)


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mpgxsvcd
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5293261 - 06/28/12 01:29 PM

Quote:

I would place higher confidence in a polar borescope alignment than I would in a software-based approach! If your borescope is properly aligned within the mount, you can get to within 2 arcminutes of the pole. I doubt the multi-star software procedure can do better than 5 arcminutes. The final arbiter, of course, is a drift alignment, which permits to better than 1 arcminute.

Remember that polar misalignment results only in drift in declination. If you see elongated stars with a RA component, your drive rate is the issue. If there is no N-S elongation, your alignment is good enough, at least in for tracking in that part of the sky.




I believed the exact same thing as you until I tried the “all star” electronic polar alignment last night. I tried aligning it based on the polar scope first.

Then I let it sit for about 30 minutes and rechecked how far off it was. I readjusted it several times like that but it was still always off.

Then I tried the “all Star” aligning method using my camera as the eye piece for everything. Since my camera’s crop mode instantly turns my telescope into an 8000mm F4.0 I was able to get a much better alignment with the electronic method.

The Polar finder is great for a preliminary setup. However, I am totally convinced that using the “all star” alignment is the way to go if you are not going to drift align.

Thanks to everyone who helped me out with my alignment issues. That is definitely what this forum is all about.


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mpgxsvcd
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5293286 - 06/28/12 01:39 PM Attachment (18 downloads)

I went to a darker site last night even though the moon was out for most of the evening. It is about to get ridiculously HOT with high Humidity around here so I thought I would get in one last observing session.

I shot a bunch of pictures and videos of the moon, Saturn, and Mars while I figured out my alignment issues and waited for the moon to set.

Since I only had about 2 hours of non light polluted viewing I spent less than 10 minutes on each object. I didn’t get to everything I wanted to see but I saw 3 new objects I had never seen before so I thought it was worth it.

Most of these pictures were taken before I tried the all star alignment so tracking was still an issue. I still don’t have it perfect but it was a lot better than it had been.

Here is a fun picture of the moon. It was shot with an Ha filter because my camera does not have a first curtain electronic shutter for RAW images like the Canon cameras do. Therefore, they are blurry even with the fastest shutter speeds the camera can do.

I left the color in there. Maybe this is why it is going to be 105 degrees with High humidity this weekend?


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mpgxsvcd
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5293291 - 06/28/12 01:41 PM Attachment (17 downloads)

Edited Single Exposure M17

Panasonic GF1 Micro Four Thirds interchangeable lens camera
Astro-Tech 8" AT8IN Imaging Newtonian
LP Filter
122 Seconds ISO 800 no Guiding

Edited by mpgxsvcd (06/28/12 01:41 PM)


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mpgxsvcd
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5293293 - 06/28/12 01:42 PM Attachment (11 downloads)

Edited Single Exposure M20

Panasonic GF1 Micro Four Thirds interchangeable lens camera
Astro-Tech 8" AT8IN Imaging Newtonian
LP Filter
183 Seconds ISO 800 no Guiding

Edited by mpgxsvcd (06/28/12 01:42 PM)


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mpgxsvcd
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5293296 - 06/28/12 01:43 PM Attachment (17 downloads)

Edited Single Exposure I forgot what this one is. Does anyone know? M8 is the correct answer.

Panasonic GF1 Micro Four Thirds interchangeable lens camera
Astro-Tech 8" AT8IN Imaging Newtonian
LP Filter
127 Seconds ISO 800 no Guiding

Edited by mpgxsvcd (06/28/12 02:24 PM)


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scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5293353 - 06/28/12 02:10 PM

I believe that is M8 Lagoon Neb- nice work- ya know something I think would be cool to see is a short video of your video setup-if you get a chance.

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mpgxsvcd
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: scout72]
      #5293378 - 06/28/12 02:23 PM

Quote:

I believe that is M8 Lagoon Neb- nice work- ya know something I think would be cool to see is a short video of your video setup-if you get a chance.




I have been preparing that video over the last 6 months. I finally have everything I need to do the video. The last piece was that I needed to figure out how to do a half decent polar alignment.

It will probably take me a week to put it together. I will post it here when it is done though.


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Chris A
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5293505 - 06/28/12 04:01 PM

I agree with you Mark and one program that I am now using with very good results is Alignmaster. The ease and accuracy of using this porgram makes polar aligning much easier with very good results.

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Hemmi
super member


Reged: 09/08/10

Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: Chris A]
      #5293588 - 06/28/12 05:01 PM

I bought a little Orion min magnificent auto guider. I have tried 8 minutes so far, with great results.

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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5293690 - 06/28/12 06:19 PM

Yor images say edited, can you elaborate on what you did? You images are very good.

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mpgxsvcd
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: Stew57]
      #5293921 - 06/28/12 08:59 PM

If they say edited then I corrected the white balance and pulled the contrast a little in a program called ACDSEE. No more than 1-2 minutes spent in each picture. I don't even know how to stack images.

I tried once and the results were much worse than the single edited image. I am too impatient to learn to stack. I like to see results right away.

Edited by mpgxsvcd (06/28/12 09:00 PM)


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Dragon Man
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/07/06

Loc: Snake Valley, Australia
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images new [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5294746 - 06/29/12 11:52 AM

Quote:


. . I often wonder why this forum specifically is so one sided? It just seems that if someone tries to find a new way to do near real time viewing then the immediate response is to attempt to discredit the method’s used. Which is fine if your intent is to also help try to resolve those issues to the fullest extent as well.

It just seems that if someone posts images from anything other than a Malincam that are not up to the standards the response is “Get a Malincam”. If someone posts results that are decent then you get virtually no response at all so that the thread gets buried at the bottom of the page. And if someone posts less than stellar images from a Malincam the response is always positive and insightful as to how to improve those images.

I thought the intent of this forum was to help further the real time viewing experience no matter what methods and devices you are using?






We have been over this exact point in other threads in here, and you know that, because you posted in those threads.

This is not a Mallincam Forum and it better not become one either.
The whole idea of the V&EAA Forum is to discover new ways to do V&EAA.

I was witness to two different people broadcasting in NSN by using DSLR's with 'Live' view and stacking on the fly and to me this is exciting! It is the type of advancement in this field that we DO want to hear about. There was NO post-processing done. It was all on the fly.

Yes there are probably a few Mallincam Biased people in here. But there are also a few Samsung Biased folk too.
No doubt we will probably end up with some Canon Biased people too once this method takes off.
I have 2 ToUcams, a Samsung, a Mallincam, and a DSLR and I always hoping for an ever better way than these to replace my Eyepieces for visual work.
That's what this Forum is for.
Try any camera. Report the findings. Give tips. Experiment.


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mpgxsvcd
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/21/11

Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images [Re: Dragon Man]
      #5294788 - 06/29/12 12:23 PM

Quote:


I was witness to two different people broadcasting in NSN by using DSLR's with 'Live' view and stacking on the fly and to me this is exciting! It is the type of advancement in this field that we DO want to hear about. There was NO post-processing done. It was all on the fly.





Are those people in this forum? I would love to know what methods they used for the on the fly stacking. I may have missed the posts on that if they were posted before I found this forum.

Sometimes I think that people don't post in this forum because they think that their methods will just get shot down or ignored.

In reality that may not be the case. There probably is no intent to actually be one-sided in the forum. However, if the perception is that there is a bias towards one method then it almost doesn't matter what the intent is.


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mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: Full Spectrum Panasonic GF1 images [Re: mpgxsvcd]
      #5294855 - 06/29/12 01:07 PM

Travis,

DSS live (Deep Sky Stacking) and DSI (Deep Sky Imaging) are probably the most popular stacking methods.

If you use the camera's utility s/w to view the video stream you need something to "pipe" the onscreen image to the stacking s/w and NSN (if you are broadcasting). This is usually the ManyCam or WebCamMax software.

If instead you connect the true video out on the DSLR to the PC via USB frame grabber then the video stream already looks like a webcam and can be used directly by the stacking software or NSN.


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