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Fuzzyguy
sage
Reged: 12/21/11
Loc: Colorado/Kansas
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Double Star Charts Anyone?
#5295098 - 06/29/12 04:06 PM
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Recently I've started to get more interested in looking at double and multiple star systems when conditions aren't up to DSO chasing. I've just been using my PSA, but I'd like to get a book or something with more info such as separation, magnitude, historical significance and other info. I can do planning on the computer with Stellarium and the web, but I don't like to haul the computer out to the scope (dew and power requirements), so I think a book or charts would be the best choice. The Cambridge Double Star Atlas looks like it would serve my purpose well, but before I order one, I thought I'd see if anyone has other suggestions for alternatives that are easier to use or are more helpful and accurate.
Thanks for the help!
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desertstars
Reged: 11/05/03
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Re: Double Star Charts Anyone?
[Re: Fuzzyguy]
#5295199 - 06/29/12 05:16 PM
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In my experience as double star observer, the CDSA is the best thing going. The charts are nicely done and carry a lot of DSOs into the bargain. The listings in the back have a regrettable number of typos, but to be honest, I only know this because I was told. I never use anything except the charts.
Another tool I use is Carte du Ciel, a free down-loadable star chart software. You can add the Washington Double Star Catalog to it, and print individual charts according to your needs.
You might also want to check out Double Stars for Small Telescopes by Sissy Haas while you're at it.
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C_Moon
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/23/09
Loc: Virginia
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Re: Double Star Charts Anyone?
[Re: Fuzzyguy]
#5295230 - 06/29/12 05:40 PM
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I have the CDSA and if you're serious about double stars, it's worth buying. Not much on historical significance, for individual stars, though. Couple other comments:
- data for double stars is listed in an appendix sorted by right ascension
- the only information provided for each double listed are the magnitudes and separation (no PA or notes)
- occasionally, separations are in error or outdated, but not too often.
- It has a nice list of 100 showpiece doubles sorted by constellation. That list does include some brief notes on each entry.
- The charts themselves are very nice and include quite a few DSOs. I often use the CDSA in the field to find other objects besides double stars.
- I found the introductory and background material in the front section very helpful.
Another popular book for observing doubles is "Double Stars for Small Telescopes" by Sissy Haas. No comment since I don't own that one.
Finally, You might want to post or at least read the double star forum. I have found a number of great double star websites from reading that forum. Also, quite often someone will point out an enjoyable double that is "off the radar screen".
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buddyjesus
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/07/10
Loc: Davison, Michigan
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Re: Double Star Charts Anyone?
[Re: C_Moon]
#5295471 - 06/29/12 08:46 PM
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I thought there was still a good bit of history on the struve family in cdsa. it is my favorite atlas BTW, but I don't take it outside. I just use lists and palm planetarium in the field
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spaulmac
member
Reged: 03/31/10
Loc: Louisville, KY
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Re: Double Star Charts Anyone?
[Re: buddyjesus]
#5295517 - 06/29/12 09:13 PM
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Yep, that's what I have too. But then I'll buy anything with Wil Tirion drawn charts. Simply beautiful.
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beatlejuice
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/05/11
Loc: Hamilton, ON,Canada
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Re: Double Star Charts Anyone?
[Re: Fuzzyguy]
#5295742 - 06/30/12 01:11 AM
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I have only had the CDSA for a few months but it is a great resource for double stars as well as being extremely useful at the telescope as a general atlas.
As well Webb society deep-sky observer's handbook volume 1-double stars is another good resource with some historical background, methodology and a substantial catalogue of double and multiple star systems. Note, this is not an atlas.
Eric
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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
Reged: 06/16/04
Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
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Re: Double Star Charts Anyone?
[Re: C_Moon]
#5296014 - 06/30/12 08:43 AM
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Quote:
- occasionally, separations are in error or outdated, but not too often
A significant number of double stars are "short period binaries." These are double stars whose orbital periods are short enough that their separations change significantly over the course of a few years...
Some of the popular doubles are short period binaries. For example, Porrima, Castor, Sirius all change from season to season. These three are currently getting wider. Others are getting closer, Zeta Bootes is closing so that last year it was within the capabilities of a 10 inch, this year it is not.
The WDS, Washington Double Star Catalog, "maintained by the United States Naval Observatory, is the world's principal database of astrometric double and multiple star information."
Programs like Cartes du Ciel, the Sky, and others use this database for their double star catalogs but the vast majority of the programs use fixed dates rather than computing the orbits of short period binaries. This can lead to confusion, disappointment and error.
There are three programs I know of that use the WDS and compute the current separation and PA of short term binary stars. SkyTools 3 is the most comprehensive and provides information on all the separations of a system. It has powerful search tools that allow you to search for doubles in individual constellations, multiple constellations, and provide various limits.
Voyager is a little known program that is available for both the Mac and Windows also computes them.
The third program is SkySafari, it runs on Phones, Tablets as well as Macs. There are versions for both the iOS as well as the Android and it has some nice features. Besides computing the orbit and showing the magnitudes and separations, it can show the orbit and you can watch the separation change with time as the stars orbit one another. SkySafari also has a nice list of doubles and can show the separations on the chart.
I spend a fair amount of time observing double stars. I find having a program that will provide me with the current separation quite helpful, that way I know what to expect and what I am looking for.
Jon
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Fuzzyguy
sage
Reged: 12/21/11
Loc: Colorado/Kansas
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Re: Double Star Charts Anyone?
[Re: Jon Isaacs]
#5296397 - 06/30/12 01:53 PM
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It's hard to believe, but everyone agrees! I ordered my very own copy and it should be here in a week. Thanks to all who responded, I really appreciate your input!
I realized one positive of tracking down multiples under a bright moon, you can start a lot earlier than when looking for fuzzies! I thought I'd try to find all the doubles in Lyra last night, and I started about 9:45 because it was as dark as it was going to get by then. By midnight, I'd found everything north of Sulafat before the clouds rolled in, including three, yes three "double doubles"! Epsilon Lyr was the first, then later I found Sigma 2470 and 2474, that looked like Epsilon Lyr but each had a much wider companion and they were more parallel to each other. Finally, one of the other doubles I found looked to be a "dim" double double, but it was only identified as a double on the chart with no other designation.
One of the great things about being a beginner is all the surprises you get as you hop around looking for new things! I'd never given doubles much thought, but now I'm kind of hooked! And they are great practice for star hopping. 
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Ed Wiley
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Kansas, USA
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Re: Double Star Charts Anyone?
[Re: Fuzzyguy]
#5296448 - 06/30/12 02:21 PM
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WDS and Skytools3 are what I use, the Cambridge atlas is good for general star maps and I also like Sissy Haas's book for picking out juicy doubles by constellation.
Ed
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AlBoning
sage
Reged: 03/06/11
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Re: Double Star Charts Anyone?
[Re: Ed Wiley]
#5296460 - 06/30/12 02:30 PM
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Hardly first choice for a double star enthusiast but "Objects in the Heavens" does give information for the principal multiples in each constellation in addition to being a nice broad based observing list.
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Fuzzyguy
sage
Reged: 12/21/11
Loc: Colorado/Kansas
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Re: Double Star Charts Anyone?
[Re: AlBoning]
#5296592 - 06/30/12 04:04 PM
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Jon,
Thanks for reminding me. I do have CDC with the WDS catalog installed. When I first installed it, I thought there was too much information for me to plan easily. There must be over 100 just in Lyra! However, I did check where I saw the dimmer of the 3 double doubles I saw last night and it looks like it was STF 2472 and STF 2473 just west of Eta Lyr! I saw a lot of others that looked like doubles as I was hopping around, but they were very dim and weren't in PSA so I don't know if they are true doubles or just two stars of similar magnitude. I think it would take a month of nights to see all the doubles and multiples just in Lyra! Never a dull moment!
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BSJ
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/22/08
Loc: Grand Isle, VT
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Re: Double Star Charts Anyone?
[Re: Fuzzyguy]
#5298308 - 07/01/12 06:06 PM
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Has anyone used the PDF version? http://www.booku.com/The-Cambridge-Double-Star-Atlas/James-Mullaney/ebook_235627.htm
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Doc Bob
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/27/09
Loc: Maryland, USA
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Re: Double Star Charts Anyone?
[Re: BSJ]
#5298362 - 07/01/12 06:41 PM
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Larry,
If you have an i-phone, why not try SklySafari . . . there are several levels available - I use the SkySafari PRO. this software is incredible and I have it sync'd to my CPC1100 scope. It takes me anywhere I want to go, it's acurate, and has nice info tagged to almost everything in the database. This can be used w/ an i-phone, i-Pod (etc), or computer (Windows and/or MAC. I have seen more with this system than I have ever seen with the rather nice database in the Celestron Nexstar system!!
Regards,
Bob
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