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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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JJK
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 04/28/08

Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5298129 - 07/01/12 04:02 PM

Quote:

Do you want to look through a perfect mirror with a tiny obstruction, or through unobstructed, perfect crystal? I know what I would walk out with in a heartbeat - TEC200FL.




Have you ever looked through an AP Mak-Cass? I have one and decided to get it after looking through Roland's 8" and 10" prototypes. I have absolutely no regrets. The AP Mak-Cass is a superb lunar/planetary/globular instrument.


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
*****

Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: JimP]
      #5298242 - 07/01/12 05:08 PM

You need to toss in the mount for this exercise. I would think a 10" AP Mak would work visually on an Atlas. I wouldn't even consider putting a 200mm TEC on anything less than a G11 and even that is pushing it.

David


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ValeryD
Vendor (Aries)
*****

Reged: 11/26/05

Loc: Kherson, Ukraine.
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5298307 - 07/01/12 06:00 PM

All is depends of your seeing and your patience in hunting for the best seeing moments during average nights. If your seeing conditions are mostly good (6 and above, out of 10) and you are patient enough waiting moments of image steadiness, then go with 10" AP MCT. It will show you more details on planets during excellent seeing and during moments of excellent seeing in average nights. It also will show you more colorful planets.

In a past I frequently have compared my 10" Mak with the very same optics and very similar mechanics (and cooling system) as the AP's one and my 7" Fluorite triplet and 7" Fluorite doublet. There were no any case when I saw less details in 10" Mak than in 7" APO. But during very good and excellent seeing, the 10" outperformed the 7" hands down in wealth of small delicate details. The gap was so wide, that 8" APO also will sink in it.


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Sgt
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/17/05

Loc: Under the southern horn of the...
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: ValeryD]
      #5298353 - 07/01/12 06:34 PM

Did Aries make the optics for the AP mak?

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Aquatone
sage


Reged: 03/23/06

Loc: California Bay Area
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: vahe]
      #5298420 - 07/01/12 07:29 PM

Quote:

Chris,

Looking at the photo of your toys I see that you have a Rob Miller Tripod, which model is yours? Last month I ordered a Tri36M, expecting it sometimes in mid July, is yours M or H?

Vahe




Yes the tripod is a Rob Miller Tri36M which is compatible with my AP1200 that you can see in the picture. (I think the Tri36H is optimized for a Paramount) I can't praise this tripod highly enough in the way it combines rigidity and light weight portability - I can literally lift it with one finger. For the long focal length AP 10" Maksutov, the Tri36L tripod and AP1200 makes a portable and yet extremely rigid assembly that I can assemble/disassemble in 5-10 minutes maximum. Even if I whack the telescope hard, the motion dampens instantly. To address an earlier point raised about mounting these instruments, another advantage of the 10" Maksutov is that it does not have the very long movement arm of a 200mm refractor. Unless you have looked through this mounting configuration visually it is hard to convey how rock solid rigid it is especially at extremely high magnifications.

Chris


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Aquatone
sage


Reged: 03/23/06

Loc: California Bay Area
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: JJK]
      #5298439 - 07/01/12 07:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Assuming they both cost the exact same thing, which would you choose and why?




I've observed the central star in M57 from here (and at the BFSP), but that required the DSO to be nearly overhead and about 1000x, which the scope can handle because of its smooth optics.

In addition to visual work, I hope to use the scope for imaging globs, etc.




I can confirm that I (and 10 others) also observed the central star of M57 through the 10" AP Maksutov at the Oregon Star Party a few years ago. Seeing is obviously important with this object, but this is a good example of how the superb quality of the 10" optics appears to defy the established rules of what is required to see objects like this. This is an instrument, that albeit specialized for certain types of observing, deserves every bit of its reputation. I will also say that through extensive use in my part of the world, (California) I have rarely if ever had cool down issues with this telescope, and it is always ready for observing from Sunset onwards. It's thermal management is remarkable. External seeing issues at the greater 10" aperture are also from my experience not conspicuously worse than viewing through my 6.3" AP160 refractor, though I benefit from upper atmospheric conditions near the coast.

As far as imaging deep sky objects such as globulars with longer exposures is concerned, compared to large refractors I have found that the 10" Maksutov requires a much higher level of guiding precision. (Not surprising at 3,708mm focal length) I have experimented with several solutions, but generally off-axis or on-axis solutions are required for anything 5' or longer. However I often use the AP CCD telecompressor when imaging objects such as compact galaxies and globulars which brings the focal ratio down to a more manageable F/9 (ish) depending on its spacing.

Chris


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vahe
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 08/27/05

Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5298506 - 07/01/12 08:47 PM

Quote:

You need to toss in the mount for this exercise. I would think a 10" AP Mak would work visually on an Atlas. I wouldn't even consider putting a 200mm TEC on anything less than a G11 and even that is pushing it.





G11 would be borderline, just barely able to support a 10” Mak, I have a 250 F/20 TEC Mak and G11 handles it in visual mode with binoviewer, but the 5000mm focal length is way over G11’s comfort zone. The smallest mount for a 10” MC in visual mode would be AP Mach1, this mount is in fact lighter than G11 equatorial head and can carry a little more than G11.

The TEC 200FL requires AP900 for visual and 1200 (now 1600) for imaging, G11 can not carry that refractor even in visual mode.

Vahe


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jmiele
Patron Saint?
*****

Reged: 12/04/10

Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: vahe]
      #5298556 - 07/01/12 09:24 PM

The TEC180 is about max on the 900. 1200/1600 would be better.

Joe


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Paul G
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: JimP]
      #5298952 - 07/02/12 06:29 AM Attachment (62 downloads)

Quote:

Assuming they both cost the exact same thing, which would you choose and why?




Unless I needed the wide field of the 200 I'd get the 10" Mak. I asked Roland what size apo refractor would equal the 10" Mak, fov differences aside, and he said a 9.25" would match its light throughput. The mak would have better resolution, and if the 9.25" apo were perfect and seeing perfect the apo may have slightly better contrast.

That said, the contrast in the AP Mak is superb. It is the first thing experienced observers note the first time they look through the scope. Very smooth optics, small central obstruction, and 1/10 wave (system) pay dividends. I've seen the central star in M57. I've observed Deimos and Phobos with Mars in the fov without an occulting bar, a testimony to the very low scatter.

Thermal management would go to the Mak. I use mine in the mid-Atlantic area and it''s cooled down in 15-20 minutes, basically the time it takes me to get my chair and myself situated. I have to transport to observe and I usually observe alone, and with my back trouble I could not handle an 8" refractor. The Mak rides happily on a Mach1 GTO.

My primary interest is visual lunar/planetary observing, but one of my favorite views with the AP Mak is M13 with a 13 Ethos. Stunning.

If and when weather and busy schedules cooperate Marty Cohen, benevolent dictator of Company 7, and I plan on side by siding my 10" Mak with his AP 206 EDF. Should be interesting.


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coz
sage


Reged: 08/25/10

Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: Paul G]
      #5299193 - 07/02/12 10:53 AM

I vote for the AP Mak. I just re-read some comments on the AP user group from Roland explaining how difficult it was making these. I think the low % central obstruction is unique and each scope took a long time for him to hand figure.

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JimP
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/22/03

Loc: South Carolina
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo *DELETED* new [Re: coz]
      #5299320 - 07/02/12 03:46 PM

Post deleted by JimP

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Refractor6
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/20/04

Loc: Vancouver B.C. , Canada
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: JimP]
      #5299330 - 07/02/12 03:53 PM

Quote:

I have decided to go with the AP 10" Maksutov.
Two super scopes!




No kidding!!


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peleuba
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/01/04

Loc: Southern PA
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: Paul G]
      #5299338 - 07/02/12 03:56 PM

Quote:

If and when weather and busy schedules cooperate Marty Cohen, benevolent dictator of Company 7, and I plan on side by siding my 10" Mak with his AP 206 EDF. Should be interesting.




Great looking setup, Paul. I am somewhat local (work in the Baltimore area) and could bring a TEC160FL. I have never viewed through an AP 10 MAK.


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Tom and Beth
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/08/07

Loc: Tucson, AZ
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: JimP]
      #5299353 - 07/02/12 04:02 PM

Good choice! I have TEC's version (250 F12) and very happy.
All that said, wouldn't mind having the 200MM APO as well.


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idealistic
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/31/10

Loc: massachusetts
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: peleuba]
      #5299354 - 07/02/12 04:03 PM

I just noticed a TEC200FL on Amart "located in the US"....

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coz
sage


Reged: 08/25/10

Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: idealistic]
      #5299364 - 07/02/12 04:09 PM

Congrats!

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jmiele
Patron Saint?
*****

Reged: 12/04/10

Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: coz]
      #5299369 - 07/02/12 04:11 PM

Good deal Jim. A nice acquisition. Enjoy it.. Joe

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johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: JJK]
      #5299480 - 07/02/12 05:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Do you want to look through a perfect mirror with a tiny obstruction, or through unobstructed, perfect crystal? I know what I would walk out with in a heartbeat - TEC200FL.




Have you ever looked through an AP Mak-Cass? I have one and decided to get it after looking through Roland's 8" and 10" prototypes. I have absolutely no regrets. The AP Mak-Cass is a superb lunar/planetary/globular instrument.



I gotta admit after considering the mounting options especially but after reading the rest of this thread, I'm leaning to the Mak-Cass. OK I change my vote!


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idealistic
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/31/10

Loc: massachusetts
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5299496 - 07/02/12 05:30 PM

Yeah, me too. I have to ask though, have you considered a nice 10" Dobsonian?

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saemark30
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/21/12

Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5299500 - 07/02/12 05:33 PM

I have to ask what can the TEC200FL show that you can't see in a 10" reflector cause I'm interest!
Or why would anyone be unhappy with a TEC200FL and give it up for another scope?
Are you selling a TEC200FL JimP?


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