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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5431494 - 09/20/12 06:58 PM

Kevin, Andrew, etc.

I think I have PHD working with the mount and camera. It is not dark but I tried guiding on what must be a hot pixel. Wouldn't work long because the "guide star did not move enough"!

Here is the text from the log. Is this what we need to do the PE test?

Mike

Logging manually enabled
PHD Guide 1.13.0 -- 9/20/2012 11:29:57 AM
Logging manually enabled
PHD Guide 1.13.0 -- 9/20/2012 6:29:51 PM
Logging manually enabled
PHD Guide 1.13.0 -- 9/20/2012 11:29:57 AM
Logging manually enabled
PHD Guide 1.13.0 -- 9/20/2012 6:29:51 PM
PHD Guide 1.13.0 -- 9/20/2012 6:31:38 PM
Calibration begun
lock 364.0 184.0, star 364.0 184.0
Direction,Step,dx,dy,x,y
RA+ (west),1,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),2,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),3,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),4,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),5,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),6,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),7,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),8,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),9,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),10,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),11,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),12,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),13,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),14,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),15,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),16,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),17,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),18,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),19,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),20,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),21,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),22,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),23,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),24,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),25,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),26,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),27,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),28,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),29,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),30,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),31,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),32,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),33,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),34,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),35,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),36,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),37,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),38,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),39,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),40,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),41,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),42,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),43,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),44,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),45,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),46,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),47,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),48,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),49,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),50,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),51,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),52,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),53,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),54,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),55,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),56,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),57,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),58,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),59,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),60,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),61,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
Logging manually enabled
PHD Guide 1.13.0 -- 9/20/2012 11:29:57 AM
Logging manually enabled
PHD Guide 1.13.0 -- 9/20/2012 6:29:51 PM
Logging manually enabled
PHD Guide 1.13.0 -- 9/20/2012 11:29:57 AM
Logging manually enabled
PHD Guide 1.13.0 -- 9/20/2012 6:29:51 PM
PHD Guide 1.13.0 -- 9/20/2012 6:31:38 PM
Calibration begun
lock 364.0 184.0, star 364.0 184.0
Direction,Step,dx,dy,x,y
PHD Guide 1.13.0 -- 9/20/2012 6:40:39 PM
Calibration begun
lock 364.0 184.0, star 364.0 184.0
Direction,Step,dx,dy,x,y
RA+ (west),1,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),2,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),3,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),4,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),5,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),6,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),7,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),8,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),9,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),10,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),11,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),12,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),13,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),14,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),15,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),16,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),17,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),18,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),19,-0.1,-0.0,363.9,184.0
RA+ (west),20,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),21,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),22,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),23,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),24,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),25,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),26,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),27,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),28,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),29,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),30,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),31,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),32,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),33,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),34,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),35,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),36,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),37,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),38,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),39,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),40,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),41,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),42,0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),43,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),44,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),45,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),46,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),47,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),48,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),49,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),50,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),51,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),52,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),53,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),54,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),55,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),56,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),57,-0.0,-0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),58,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),59,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),60,-0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
RA+ (west),61,0.0,0.0,364.0,184.0
Logging manually disabled


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TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5431524 - 09/20/12 07:14 PM

Mike
Do a dark frame it will fix all this


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5431557 - 09/20/12 07:44 PM

Kevin,

A dark frame with the guide camera?

Fix all what? I did this log with the objective cap on. It was sill daylight.

what am I missing?

Sorry to be so ignorant!


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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: Why me? new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5431699 - 09/20/12 09:14 PM

Gday Mike

Quote:

I think I have PHD working with the mount and camera. It is not dark but I tried guiding on what must be a hot pixel. Wouldn't work long because the "guide star did not move enough"!




That will happen when the lense cap is on
The log you have shows the system trying to calibrate the guide moves, but as you surmised, the target isn't moving ( on the sensor ) which will really throw stuff out of whack.
When it is on a star and just "logging" errors, what you should get is something like this

Quote:

Guiding begun
lock 443.4 227.2, star 443.4 227.2, Min Motion 0.25
Max RA dur 900, Max DEC dur 1000, Star Mass delta thresh 0.50
RA angle 0.12, rate 0.0015, aggr 0.75, hyst=0.00
DEC angle 1.92, rate 0.0021, Dec mode 1, Algo 0, slopewt = 5.00
Frame,Time,dx,dy,Theta,RADuration,RADistance,DECDuration,DECDistance,StarMass,ErrorCode
1, 1.650, 0.28, -0.02, -0.1, 138.3, 0.27, 0.0, -0.11, 59293.10, 0
2, 3.382, 0.44, 0.10, 0.2, 230.4, 0.45, 0.0, -0.06, 56381.99, 0
3, 5.115, 0.91, 0.23, 0.2, 472.6, 0.93, 0.0, -0.10, 56348.21, 0
4, 6.848, 1.78, 0.34, 0.2, 900.0, 1.80, 0.0, -0.30, 48243.63, 0
5, 8.580, 2.18, 0.34, 0.2, 900.0, 2.20, 0.0, -0.43, 52336.94, 0
Dx Dy





The Dx and Dy columns appear to show the total running error "in pixels".
Once you can get a log like this working, you let it run for say three of four turns of the worm and then look at the data in PECPrep.
That will give a good idea of the magnitude and repeatability of the errors.

Andrew


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Why me? new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5431711 - 09/20/12 09:21 PM

G'day Andrew... Another question that I should know the answer to - how long in time is 3 or 4 turns of the worm. Will it give better results to have 3 or 4 hours worth of data? I should be able to get a good log yet tonight if it does not cloud completely over.

I did have some problems getting PHD to connect to the mount... That all corrected itself after I turned on the mount. :-).


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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: Why me? new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5431945 - 09/20/12 11:48 PM

Gday Mike

One rev of the worm in the LX80 is approx 560seconds ( 9min 20sec )
For the purposes of FFT analysis, the more turns you can get in one session, the merrier, but no need to go overboard. Most errors will show up after say three turns.
ie grabbing a continuous 1/2 to 1 hr of data would be heaps.

Andrew


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Why me? new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5432065 - 09/21/12 02:10 AM

Andrew,

It looks as if I was optimistic about getting a big log file to work with. It is 2AM and I may make another run at ot tonight... I do my best work when the phone isn't ringing.

I have only gotten PHD to guide for a few minutes at a time. I think part of the problem is dew on the objective. Plus I did not do a drift alignment so the guide star moves up and to the left.

This is the first time I've used PHD or had anything except a manually controlled DSLR on a scope. I'm sure most of my problems relate to the operator. I'm a bit of an old dog and this is certainly a new trick.


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TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5432200 - 09/21/12 07:14 AM

Oh so it was a hot pixel , I just didn't get the day time deal.

So when you use it under stars do a dark in PHD at 1 sec frame rate **note ** if you change the frame rate you will need to re do your dark frame.


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TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5432222 - 09/21/12 07:39 AM

Mike see Andrew post thats what your data will look like. The data set you did is showing PHD trying to calibrate.On your first run you will see both the calibration set and then the Guide set *** Note remember to click the Disable guide output so the Data set will be Unguided. Then all PHD is doing is watching your mount track and showing how much of a correction would be needed to center the star (more or Less) Also when you are doing your data sets use your main OTA in single configuration instead of piggyback that way you data sets will least amount flex in the OTA train. The closer you have your polar alignment the better. We use PHD to drift align instead of watching the star over time PHD watches the star you are looking at the graph with DEC turn off you are looking at only the DEC movement because this will show you haw far you are off the pole. What you are looking for is the flat-est line possible

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TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5432228 - 09/21/12 07:51 AM Attachment (17 downloads)

Drift using PHD this show the graph what you are trying to get in both Azimuth and Latitude to look like

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TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5432234 - 09/21/12 07:55 AM Attachment (23 downloads)

In this graph you can see the over all line is drifting down across the graph

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TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5432237 - 09/21/12 08:00 AM

And in all these graphs you are looking at the RED line in the default set up of PHD the RED line is DEC. The graph above is Azimuth so adjustment was made to the mount in Azimuth only and then another graph was done. As stated the objective is to get the line as flat as possible.

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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5432241 - 09/21/12 08:09 AM

Gday Kevin
Quote:

As stated the objective is to get the line as flat as possible.





Have you tried a steam iron and some starch??

Andrew


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TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5432248 - 09/21/12 08:20 AM Attachment (24 downloads)

Another cool test you can do with the camera star trail test do your set up as normal the go to 4th or 5th mag star around 0 degs and the Meridian now using your hand controller turn the mount to terrestrial this will turn off the tracking and all the stars will drift to the west do this for 4 mins now using the hand controller turn the mount back to Astronomical and hit number 3 8x sidereal rate and move the mount only to the west with the arrow buttons for about 60 to 90 sec the photo will show any error in your polar by making the star trails into elongated V's if the star trails are stacked on top of each other then your polar alignment for that axis is correct. This would be a single long exposure of 5min or 5min 30sec if your useing 90 seconds of west arrow movement on the mount.the Photo I did was with DLSR before trying to take AP just to see if the mount was still in good shape.

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TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5432253 - 09/21/12 08:26 AM

Andrew

Will that work? I have been doing it the hard way! LOL


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TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5432261 - 09/21/12 08:32 AM

Still waiting on a Hand controller I called Meade and it hasn't even left yet. So right now I have a boat anchor.

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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5433445 - 09/21/12 08:54 PM

Kevin,

Hard to believe that with all the problems that Meade can't resolve easily that they wouldn't jump on the chance to resolve one simple one by getting a hand control out to you quickly.

No testing of any kind tonight t-storms nd high winds in the area all night. Looks like a good time to do some reading to see if I can learn a little about what I'm doing. :-).


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TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5433739 - 09/22/12 12:57 AM

Mike
I called Meade today they have the HC in route so I should get that on Tues 25th. Another two weeks with no mount.I sent my in on the 11th of Sept.


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TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5433741 - 09/22/12 01:00 AM

Mike
If you need any more information on PHD or Autostar suite or the set up just give me a shout.Good Luck

Clear Skies


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5433754 - 09/22/12 01:18 AM

Thanks Kevin. I know so little right now, it is hard to ask questions. But, I'll learn. I do know that before my next round with PHD I need to do a drift adjustment. Sorry that my inexperience is delaying another data set.

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