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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
unguided images new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5514603 - 11/11/12 02:51 PM Attachment (33 downloads)

Here are some unguided images I got last night (11-11-12)

5 seconds


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: unguided images new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5514605 - 11/11/12 02:53 PM Attachment (31 downloads)

10 seconds

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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: unguided images new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5514606 - 11/11/12 02:54 PM Attachment (24 downloads)

20 seconds

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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: unguided images new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5514607 - 11/11/12 02:55 PM Attachment (31 downloads)

60 seconds

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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: unguided images new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5514611 - 11/11/12 02:57 PM Attachment (33 downloads)

180 seconds...don't know where 120 seconds went to, but everything over 5 or 10 seconds was bad anyway. I guess the way things stand now all i need to do is about 500 5 second exposures :.)

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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 11/30/10

Re: unguided images new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5514768 - 11/11/12 04:44 PM

Gday Mike

Quote:

I guess the way things stand now all i need to do is about 500 5 second exposures :.)




Or Guide

There is NO WAY a mount of this class will give good unguided pictures of any duration. These tests are merely showing whatthe base system is like.
Try some guided images next ( after spending a bit of time having fun )

Andrew


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dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: unguided images new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5514959 - 11/11/12 07:20 PM Attachment (27 downloads)

Gday Andrew and Mike (and other lurkers...)

Sorry Andrew. I must STRONGLY disagree with your comments above. Yup, I am still following the thread. Now, granted, I no longer have an LX80, but for a few nights before the big CRASH BANG BOOM.... I was able to do some imaging.

I imaged a total of 13 objects that were in my target base, and got excellant results. All targets were imaged in Polar mode, with the SC6, and were UNGUIDED. I will saw that I took my time, and got an excellant polar alignment. By time, I mean I spent about 30-40 min doing interactive Method alignment. The end results were very good. I imaged 8 targets at 60 seconds, and 5 targets at 120 seconds. I will post here a sample from both.

The first is NGC 6888 (60 Seconds).


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dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: unguided images new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5514961 - 11/11/12 07:21 PM Attachment (23 downloads)

The second image is NGC 4157... This is 120 Seconds...
Note that I still have all the raw data from these images. What is being uploaded is a compressed JPG so that it will fit.


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dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: unguided images new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5514971 - 11/11/12 07:28 PM

I had posted several pictures during the July 20th week of similar shots.

I think i was getting some excellant shots then. Wish the mount had not fallen, but it did. And apparently, that ruined everything.

But the point i want to make is this. With proper polar alignment, and with a 10 lb OTA, i was getting images like this (60 and 120 sec) and have the data on 13 targets to back it up. That was UNGUIDED.


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: unguided images new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5515017 - 11/11/12 08:13 PM

Quote:

I had posted several pictures during the July 20th week of similar shots.

I think i was getting some excellant shots then. Wish the mount had not fallen, but it did. And apparently, that ruined everything.

But the point i want to make is this. With proper polar alignment, and with a 10 lb OTA, i was getting images like this (60 and 120 sec) and have the data on 13 targets to back it up. That was UNGUIDED.




David,

Thanks for sharing the pics. I thought you had done suscessful unguided images of 1 or 2 minutes. I think my big problem now is that I am having a lot of trouble getting even fair drift alignment. The process seems like a fairly simple on and I'm a bit embarrassed that I haven't been successful yet. Last night was the best I've gotten so far so there has been some progress. I need to stop and enjoy looking up for a few nights... this is getting real old an I need some fun!


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dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: unguided images new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5515044 - 11/11/12 08:32 PM

Mike...

Forget Drift Alignment... (oh it works, and its the gold standard....)

Google Polar Alignment Interactive Method

Straight Forward, and IT WORKS....

If you have trouble finding it, post back and i will find a couple of good write ups on it for you.


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: unguided images new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5515091 - 11/11/12 09:06 PM

David,

Is that the same as drift alignment using PhD? If so, that's hat I've been trying after a 1 star polar alignment.


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dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: unguided images new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5515116 - 11/11/12 09:30 PM

No...

Basically, do a two star as normal.
Then find a star to the South(ish) at about Eq... You can be off by 10-20 degrees.

Slew to it --center it (using Control pad )... and SYNC..

Then slew back to Polaris. Now, adjust for Center using the AZ screws, and DEC screws (NOT the Control pad). DO NOT SYNC.

Now slew back to the southern target star. Use the Control pad, center, and SYNC.

Slew back to Polaris... Center with the screws (not the pad) and DO NOT SYNC

Notice a pattern ?? Keep doing it for about 5-6 times. You should notice improvement. At that point, you should be good to go.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: unguided images new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5515163 - 11/11/12 10:10 PM

You're not doing it right. On the second slew to Polaris, you take up half the error in the mechanical screws, then drive to Polaris, and Sync.

-Rich


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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: unguided images new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5515183 - 11/11/12 10:20 PM

Gday David

Quote:

Sorry Andrew. I must STRONGLY disagree with your comments above.




Fair enough, but you may be the only one to date who has had any luck unguided.
If you look at the two PE plots for Mikes mount ( on the prev page ) you will see he has about 50arcsec pk-pk PE which repeats 6 times per rev of the worm?????.
ie there are lots of regions with rapidly changing PE.
He is not going to get good unguided Long exposure piccies with this when using a scope of any decent focal length.
You may have had lower/smoother PE in your unit, but i will still say, for this class of mount, on average, you wont get much success unguided.
Time will tell.

Andrew


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dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: unguided images new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5515187 - 11/11/12 10:22 PM

I stand corrected. Rich is correct.

Actually, on each slew back to Polaris.....
Adjust for 1/2 the error ....
use the SCREWS and DO NOT SYNC.

Then slew to the target, use the hand controller to center, and SYNC (on the target star).


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dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: unguided images new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5515202 - 11/11/12 10:28 PM

Howdy Andrew...

Actually, I just wanted to point out that I had indeed done it with that LX80 (may it rest in peace !!).

As for regular imaging, in either Alt/AZ (which I do with my LX-200), or Polar (which I now do with my CG5-GT), I would HIGHLY reccommend that you be guiding.

I am now using an Orion StarShoot Autoguider (with ST4 output) for both the LX200, and the CG5-GT.


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neilson
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/22/10

Re: unguided images new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5515208 - 11/11/12 10:30 PM

I have got to say that this "all star polar alignment"(ASPA) on my CGEM DX is the greatest thing. No more drift or iterative for me. Too bad Meade doesn't have it.

Mike if you do PHD guiding you don't have to get the polar alignment perfect, just close. In another group one guy said its better to be off a little, then you select north or south instead of auto in the Dec guiding (last box in the graph). Others were disagreeing with him. I tried it a couple days ago and it works so much better than trying to get the polar alignment perfect. Your actually forcing it to guide Dec in one direction only instead of back and forth.
For years, I had always tried to get the polar align. perfect then use auto. This other way is alot easier. But if you do unguided polar has got to be perfect.

You might already know this stuff but it was new to me.

neilson


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: unguided images new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5515212 - 11/11/12 10:31 PM

David and Rich,

Thanks! That seems a lot easier than what I was doing with PhD. The PhD drift alignment seems fairly straight forward but I've had very little luck with it. If I can find a procedure that works at my level of expertise (fairly low) it will help a lot.


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: unguided images [Re: neilson]
      #5515236 - 11/11/12 10:46 PM

Quote:

I have got to say that this "all star polar alignment"(ASPA) on my CGEM DX is the greatest thing. No more drift or iterative for me. Too bad Meade doesn't have it.

Mike if you do PHD guiding you don't have to get the polar alignment perfect, just close. In another group one guy said its better to be off a little, then you select north or south instead of auto in the Dec guiding (last box in the graph). Others were disagreeing with him. I tried it a couple days ago and it works so much better than trying to get the polar alignment perfect. Your actually forcing it to guide Dec in one direction only instead of back and forth.
For years, I had always tried to get the polar align. perfect then use auto. This other way is alot easier. But if you do unguided polar has got to be perfect.

You might already know this stuff but it was new to me.

neilson




Neilson,

I appreciate any advice I can get. Not much you could tell me that I already knew. I've only been at this for a little over a year and until 4 months ago I had never owned a goto mount.

I want to see what I can get out of the mount unguided first then go to PhD and a guide scope. I only have one CCD camera now along with a Canon 40D. I guess I found guide with the Orion and image with the 40D. Is that correct. So fat, in my test, I've only had the Orion hooked up.

Glad I became a CN member. Most everyone here has been very helpful.


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