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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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jmiele
Patron Saint?
*****

Reged: 12/04/10

Re: Why me? new [Re: neilson]
      #5408555 - 09/07/12 03:23 PM

Neilson,

You have worked more than anyone could expect one should have to. Congratulations on the new mount. I hope it improves your AP experience and better meets your needs. I also hope you don't have any issues returning the other unit for refund. They could turn around and say you made changes to it.

Best,

Joe


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jgraham
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: Why me? new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5408732 - 09/07/12 04:44 PM

Kinda sad that they dropped the LXD75 line for this mount. Oh well, maybe it'll end well once/if they get the bugs worked out.

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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Why me? new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5408777 - 09/07/12 05:10 PM

Neilson,

Don't apologize to anyone. You went well beyond the call.

-Rich


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dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: Why me? new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5408986 - 09/07/12 07:35 PM

Hello to Kevin...

Well, things change from day to day. We just need to be calm and adapt with the changes.

I talked with Meade today, and they are unable to send the parts as was previously agreed. They have issued an RMA, and are requesting the return of the mount. So, i guess on Monday, I'll send a a nice big heavy box back to Meade.

With Nielson now out of the loop, and your mount shipped in, and mine being shipped in, this thread should be able to get a well deserved rest for a few weeks.


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mmalik
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/13/12

Loc: USA
Re: Why me? new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5409115 - 09/07/12 09:08 PM

This is a good strategy on Meade's part to ask for all of you folks' mounts back; they need to recall all of them in my opinion. Meade really needs to address astrophotography/guiding aspect of LX80. Plus this perception of “it is good for visual” is misleading; if it can’t guide it is useless for visual in my opinion. Guiding comes first as a good “test” of what’s good for visual where objects just wouldn’t be drifting off the FOV and where pointing will be precise.

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austin.grant
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 10/18/10

Loc: Shreveport, LA
Re: Why me? new [Re: mmalik]
      #5409137 - 09/07/12 09:18 PM

Quote:

Plus this perception of “it is good for visual” is misleading; if it can’t guide it is useless for visual in my opinion.




I've read ridiculous posts before, but come on.... Are you serious?


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GOLGO13
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/05/05

Loc: St. Louis area
Re: Why me? new [Re: austin.grant]
      #5409159 - 09/07/12 09:36 PM

Personally I've felt that Celestron's products are of higher quality then Meade in general. I think that has become even more the case within the last couple years.

I know the Meade ETX 70AT I had was a somewhat budget scope, but I had to go through 3 of them to get one that worked. The only products I have that are meade are a few 5000 series eyepieces. Those are pretty good actually. But as far as scopes and mounts, I'd much rather go Celestron.


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Lee Jay
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 02/27/08

Loc: Westminster, CO
Re: Why me? new [Re: austin.grant]
      #5409166 - 09/07/12 09:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Plus this perception of “it is good for visual” is misleading; if it can’t guide it is useless for visual in my opinion.




I've read ridiculous posts before, but come on.... Are you serious?




You haven't heard? All Dobsonian's are useless for visual.


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ur7x
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/08/12

Re: Why me? new [Re: austin.grant]
      #5409189 - 09/07/12 09:49 PM

If you take the time to read this entire thread, you can see that he is very serious. Actual LX80 owners have been very clear about how this mount "bounces around" all over the place in polar mode with anything more than a 10lb OTA. They have been clear, it is NOT suitable for visual use either. This mount was supposed to as good as (maybe even better) then CGEM or Atlas at a fraction of the price, we can now see that this mount, in polar mode doesn't even come close to the cheaper $700 CG5. We all know and it is will documented that the CG5 can do AP work with a 20 pound OTA. The LX80, can't even do visual work (in polar mode) with a 20 pound OTA.

We can continue to make excuses for Meade and this mount, or we can call on Meade to do for these owners what they are doing for the LX800 owners, I agree, these mounts, like the LX800 have a critical design flaw and need to be recalled.


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austin.grant
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 10/18/10

Loc: Shreveport, LA
Re: Why me? new [Re: ur7x]
      #5409221 - 09/07/12 10:04 PM

I'm not making excuses for Meade. In fact, I think anyone with this mount should have abandoned ship 40 pages ago. I'm simply commenting on a ridiculous statement. An inability to guide doesn't make a mount poor for visual use.

Edited by austin.grant (09/07/12 10:11 PM)


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neilson
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/22/10

Re: Why me? new [Re: austin.grant]
      #5409407 - 09/07/12 11:59 PM

Hi Everyone,
I want to thank everyone for the nice things said. I am going to miss having that mount. I really wanted it to work but I need a mount that can do AP. As far as visual capabilities in polar goes, I don't think it really matters because Alt/az does visual great. Polar is for AP. But I did say it could work up to 30lbs. in polar for visual. But that was only after lots of tweaking and greasing the bearings. Otherwise it will bounce around. If you got one that was adjusted tight from Meade you might get close to 20lbs. visual. It's not what they said it would do.
This morning I was looking through all the bad images from recent then I got to the images just before them that were from my LXD75. Yea there was a bad one here and there but most of them had nice round stars. I sure missed that.
neilson


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Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: Why me? new [Re: neilson]
      #5409440 - 09/08/12 12:22 AM

I am out here in the back yard at 9:12 pm trying to do a alignment so I can get to the point where it will be set up for the weekend. I can not align this mount. Even in Alt-az mode it will not keep the target in the center long enough. First star it chooses as a target is Arcturus. Slews to about 3 degrees off. I center it in my telrad then center it in the crosshairs. So much backlash that pushing south makes it go north for about 2 seconds before it starts going south. East/west seem to be better but still not perfect. If I change the slew speed it will hop as if it sends too much power then it rights itself. If I do manage to get the star centered and I let go of the button it will then drift off to the north (mount moving south)and it will make little M's or W's as it goes. Now I hear little soft knocking coming from inside the housing. Like it is sticking and releasing and sticking again.

I wanted to start off the night in Alt/AZ mode and get it balanced and aligned then hook up my new video camera and get on NSN for a bit. There is no way that is going to happen. This is the second mount I took delivery of. First one burned up and this one does the above. I am not interested in tearing it apart like Neilson did. Probably needs grease and a lot of adjustment to the backlash etc.

This thread is all about how it doesn't work as a Astrophotography mount but it works fine for visual. I can't even get it to work for visual.

Third times a charm? Return for refund? Return for repair?

I am in it for 799.00 plus extra for two counter weights I bought. I had the first counterweight so long I forgot I had it. At this point I am leaning towards returning it for a refund but I need to talk to OPT tomorrow and see what they have to say about it.

Wanted to make a quick note and say that I did go through the drive train routine and calibrated the motors. I am going to reset everything and try once more before I give up.

Second edit. I never made it to a reset when it started making horrible grinding noises.

Edited by Whichwayisnorth (09/08/12 12:45 AM)


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blueman
Photon Catcher
*****

Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: Why me? new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #5409465 - 09/08/12 12:49 AM

Hi Micheal, sorry to hear the problems are still plaguing you.
Do what you feel is best for you, don't worry about anyting else.
Blueman
Quote:

I am out here in the back yard at 9:12 pm trying to do a alignment so I can get to the point where it will be set up for the weekend. I can not align this mount. Even in Alt-az mode it will not keep the target in the center long enough. First star it chooses as a target is Arcturus. Slews to about 3 degrees off. I center it in my telrad then center it in the crosshairs. So much backlash that pushing south makes it go north for about 2 seconds before it starts going south. East/west seem to be better but still not perfect. If I change the slew speed it will hop as if it sends too much power then it rights itself. If I do manage to get the star centered and I let go of the button it will then drift off to the north (mount moving south)and it will make little M's or W's as it goes. Now I hear little soft knocking coming from inside the housing. Like it is sticking and releasing and sticking again.

I wanted to start off the night in Alt/AZ mode and get it balanced and aligned then hook up my new video camera and get on NSN for a bit. There is no way that is going to happen. This is the second mount I took delivery of. First one burned up and this one does the above. I am not interested in tearing it apart like Neilson did. Probably needs grease and a lot of adjustment to the backlash etc.

This thread is all about how it doesn't work as a Astrophotography mount but it works fine for visual. I can't even get it to work for visual.

Third times a charm? Return for refund? Return for repair?

I am in it for 799.00 plus extra for two counter weights I bought. I had the first counterweight so long I forgot I had it. At this point I am leaning towards returning it for a refund but I need to talk to OPT tomorrow and see what they have to say about it.

Wanted to make a quick note and say that I did go through the drive train routine and calibrated the motors. I am going to reset everything and try once more before I give up.

Second edit. I never made it to a reset when it started making horrible grinding noises.




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WadeH237
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: Snohomish, WA
Re: Why me? new [Re: mmalik]
      #5409469 - 09/08/12 12:54 AM

Quote:

Meade really needs to address astrophotography/guiding aspect of LX80.




I've been watching this thread for a while, and jumped in once or twice.

The thing that strikes me the most is the expectations that people seem to have for this mount. At this price point, it is simply not an imaging mount for anything except light weight and short focal length scopes.

Trying to get an 10" F/10 SCT to work is an interesting exercise, but it's completely unrealistic to expect this to work well. That's getting into G11/CGE territory. Even an Atlas or CGEM (or CGEM DX) is going to be at the edge of its performance envelope for a scope like that.

This started out as an $800 mount. It that price, it would be a screaming deal if it could carry a 40lb mount even for visual use. Even with the price hike, it's still a low cost *entry* level mount - and a good buy if you understand its actual capabilities.

Imaging mounts are expensive for a reason, and nothing that Meade's marketing materials say changes that. (In my opinion, they are really going to learn this lesson on the LX-800, which competes price-wise with some very good imaging mounts.)

If you think of the LX80 primarily as a visual mount for alt-az use - with the added capability of switching to polar mode for either light duty (wide field) imaging or some extra capacity for a larger visual scope - I think that it makes a lot of sense. Even in this context, I think that there are some bugs to shake out, but that's not entirely unexpected in this market. I suspect that it'll be a pretty good buy, once it gets past the growing pains.

-Wade


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Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: Why me? new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5409486 - 09/08/12 01:14 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiZ7-NURPh4&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Hopefully link works


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neilson
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/22/10

Re: Why me? new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5409523 - 09/08/12 02:16 AM

Where does it say that price limits the mounts capabilities. This is made in China. I'm guessing it might cost Meade $150. to $200. to make. If that. Even if it was more that doesnt mean its going to cost another $2,000 to make it reach its rated capability.
Meade will tell you that it does meet the 40lb capacity. They actually expected it too and if you ask Carlos he will tell you that his technicians tell him it handles the 30lb ota in polar fine. Or at least that's what he told me several weeks ago. And I think he believed his technicians. But he might be realizing its not by now, I hope.
The mount and bearings handle the weight fine if you put grease on them. The worm was designed wrong and the spring is too week. It wouldn't take alot of money in China to fix it. In fact this mounts current polar capability might be considered 10lbs right now. So that would mean that its overpriced if you use price as a rule for capability. The LXD75 does 30lbs pretty good and it was only $599. I think. If Meade claims max load 40lbs then it should be 40lbs. Not 10 or 15lbs. As far as price point is concerned, since the LXD75's max was actually 30lbs, then compared in price the LX80 at $1,000. should be 50lbs.
Your comparing a G-11 made in California with very high Labor costs, high machining equipment costs and high priced land for the factory. And they use high quality machined aluminum.
In China labor is almost free, land is cheap, they use low quality aluminum and cast it instead of machine it. They are capable of making a mount that can handle 40lbs cheap.
It might not be as beautifully machined or even as accurate but it can still do the job. And it will be made cheaply. The G-11 is not in the same price scale as China made mounts. And if this mount actually handled 40lbs Meade could sell it for $2,500. or $800. and it would be the same mount. But at $800. or $1,000. they would sell them alot faster and maybe even hurt Celestrons sales in a big way. But there is no rule that says a mount made by Meade that sells for $1,000. can only handle 10 or 15lbs in polar. In fact it handled 64lbs great with great pointing accuracy and tracking in Alt/az duel scope mode for me. Their engineer just assumed that if you tilt it for Polar mode then it would operate the same. He was wrong. Otherwise it would handle the advertised weight and the mount would be selling really fast making Meade lots of money at $1,000. each.
neilson


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neilson
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/22/10

Re: Why me? new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #5409544 - 09/08/12 03:01 AM

Hi Micheal,
You did a good job on your video. That sounds terrible. It is not supposed to make those noises. If you have it balanced good then I would say your worm is kicking out really bad. Make sure you tilt it up like in polar mode and unlock the RA clutch to balance it in RA. And unlock the Dec to slide the ota forward or back to balance it. If you hadn't done it already. Oh, never mind, I just realize who I was talking too. sorry. I was going to erase that but I thought it might be funny anyway. ok serious now, It really sounds like they adjusted your spring on the worm way too loose. I bet if you wiggle the drive it disengages and jumps.The only other thing I can think of is there is a broken tooth on one of the nylon/plastic gears. If they adjusted the worm too tight and the RA clutch is locked during shipping if it bounces and the RA tries to move a little and cant disengage it could break a tooth in the gearbox. That was the one thing that bothered me about tightening the spring alot. If I jarred the saddle it could break a tooth since it wouldn't disengage the worm.
Well good luck but I hate to tell you that its going to be another return to get it right. At least your right there in California, I live in south Texas and UPS takes 7 days each way to Meade and back. Hopefully they will get it back to you fast.
neilson


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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: Why me? new [Re: neilson]
      #5409554 - 09/08/12 03:35 AM

Gday Micheal

Quote:

You did a good job on your video. That sounds terrible. It is not supposed to make those noises. If you have it balanced good then I would say your worm is kicking out really bad.




Yuk.
I agree its horrible, but i suspect its more an overloaded or dry worm???
Ie, in Polar when tracking at a sidereal rate, the motor only spins at 10.4rpm,
so one rev of the motor takes approx 5.75seconds.
The frequency in the clip is much higher than that when its tracking,
so are we hearing the rapid sticking/freeing as it attempts to move slowly?
Not sure about the noise when its slewing fast tho,
that sounds odd.

As a simple low speed test, set it up as altaz in the Hbx, and with no OTAs or weights loaded.
Then start it up with no alignment, ( so it stays as terrestrial ) and select speed 1 on the Hbx.
Now use the slew keys to move the Alt then Az axes.
If it still makes the same noises, i would be saying a way overloaded worm to wormwheel pressure.
The fact you mentioned getting bad retrograde motion on reversing also indicates this as a probable cause.

Andrew


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ur7x
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/08/12

Re: Why me? new [Re: austin.grant]
      #5409634 - 09/08/12 06:11 AM

You can't guide with it, cause it bounces all around, and the bouncing makes visual use just as painful.

A>B... B>C... Therefore....


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ur7x
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/08/12

Re: Why me? new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5409640 - 09/08/12 06:25 AM

I think the biggest issue that most here have with this mount, is that Meade promised it would do a whole bunch of things and the mount delivers nothing near to those promises.

The expectations that people have is based on what Meade has said in writing, in documentation, on videos and at trade shows.

Given that we can now see that in polar mode this mount can NOT support a 40lb OTA and struggles with a 20-30lb OTA... that makes this mount no better then a CG5 which today is about $300 less expensive. Now that we know what the LX80 can (and more important can't do) it is no longer a "good buy"... It is out classed by several less expensive "proven" goto mounts.

If the mount actually did ALL of the things that Meade said it would, even at the new price, it would be GREAT buy. Right now, we can all see it doesn't even outperform the Meade mount that it was to replace.


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