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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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neilson
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/22/10

Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: Peter D.]
      #5352050 - 08/04/12 06:01 PM

Hi Peter, I reluctantly agree with Davids advice at this time. But I am still determined to get this 10"ota that came with my LX80 to work in polar for astrophotography.
I have a Meade Schmidt Newtonian 10" f/4 that came with my LXD75 mount, and I had intended to use it on this LX80 mount for AP. The SN10" was pushing it on my LXD75 mount,with a guide scope no way. I am reluctant to try it on my LX80 at this time.
I specifically wanted my LX80 for AP and I really like the Alt/Az mode although my LX200ACF 10" is better in Alt/Az mode but Polar with my wedge is too much trouble since I'm on a tripod in the driveway.
So one way or another I need this LX80 to work in polar mode for AP with my 10"sct like advertised. And PEC needs to work great especially since Meade uses that as a selling point on their website under features, LX80 multimount. It states that it "dramatically reduces errors providing performance only available in much more expensive mounts". It doesnt say for this price point either.
I really think these goals are obtainable. I don't know if Meade will help us reach these goals but they did come out with the update to fix the Polar drift problem. And they are the one who claimed it could handle 40lbs in polar. And sold the 10"ota with it.(29lbs)So I have to think they will come through and make things right. I really like this mount and want it to work as advertised, and I feel it can.
neilson


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zerro1
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/02/09

Loc: Smokey Point , 48.12°N 122.25...
Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: neilson]
      #5352111 - 08/04/12 06:49 PM

advertised capacity - 50% = imaging capacity. None of the sellers will give you the truth on imaging capacity. They can't seem to come to terms with something called "truth in advertising". I can point to a Celestron CG-5 right now that is being sold as an imaging setup with a 10 inch OTA on it(tell me that's going to work well), like politics, it seems to be OK to lie about the facts.

edit: so an OTA at 29lbs, you are already over by 9 pounds of a "20lb" imaging capacity. Can it be done? I'd have to say that at some point you'll succeed(unless you take a baseball bat to it first) but you'll be throwing away more subs for every additional piece of equipment that you add to it. Try to find ways to shed all excess weight. use a 50mm mini guide scope or a lighweight OAG.



Edited by zerro1 (08/04/12 07:00 PM)


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neilson
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/22/10

Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: zerro1]
      #5352234 - 08/04/12 08:17 PM

Hi Robert, I have heard that. I have never seen a manufacturer list their mount can handle 40lbs but you can only use a 20lb setup for AP. Although I have heard some are over rated. The Celestron CGEM lists a payload capacity of 40lbs. I don't own one but from what I have read It can handle the 10" ota for AP with no problem.
Right now I am still trying to get this LX80 to handle the 10"ota that came with it for visual in polar mode. Then I will work on AP.
I was expecting this mount in polar to be more robust than my LXD75.
neilson



LX80 10"
LX200ACF 10"
LXD75 SN10"
LX3 2120 10"
ES AR152mm refractor
Celestron 60AZ-70AZ
Canon T1i & RebelXT DSI pro DSI IIcolor
18-55mm 800mm 650-1300mm


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zerro1
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/02/09

Loc: Smokey Point , 48.12°N 122.25...
Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: neilson]
      #5352303 - 08/04/12 09:17 PM

So was I. Maybe ED Thomas will get his hands on one and work out a hypertune procedure. Many mounts that were supposed to be imagers on arrival have frustrated owners until being hypertuned. It only takes one thing behaving badly to mess it up(and mask other issues).

Edited by zerro1 (08/04/12 09:22 PM)


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neilson
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/22/10

Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: zerro1]
      #5352358 - 08/04/12 10:06 PM

Hi Robert, I think your exactly right. And I was hoping some kind of hypertune kit could come along and cure this.
It seems these manufacturers are trying so hard to make some of this stuff as cheap as possible even if it doesn't meet advertised specs.
neilson


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dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: neilson]
      #5352434 - 08/04/12 11:08 PM

Hi Robert...

Ed Thomas is a very good friend of mine. As a matter of fact, we both belong to the same astronomy club, East Valley Astronomy Club (EVAC). I am the President, and Ed is the Vice President (not that it makes any difference here...).

I purchased the LX80 as a "travel mount". And i am currently in travel status. We will be returning home in early Sept, and if he has not had a chance to get his hands on a different LX80, he will have mine to look at then.


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zerro1
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/02/09

Loc: Smokey Point , 48.12°N 122.25...
Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5352583 - 08/05/12 02:47 AM

Quote:

Hi Robert...

Ed Thomas is a very good friend of mine. As a matter of fact, we both belong to the same astronomy club, East Valley Astronomy Club (EVAC). I am the President, and Ed is the Vice President (not that it makes any difference here...).

I purchased the LX80 as a "travel mount". And i am currently in travel status. We will be returning home in early Sept, and if he has not had a chance to get his hands on a different LX80, he will have mine to look at then.




That is Great! He has helped me out in many instances. Saved my bacon with one of my mounts after I fell asleep while imaging the NA neb and had a major crash. pretty much cratered the reduction gearbox on my LXD75 RA. Got one out to me pronto! Very Nice man!


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mmalik
Post Laureate
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Reged: 01/13/12

Loc: USA
Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5353686 - 08/05/12 07:34 PM

Quote:

There has been so much information it would be nice to see a summary of where we stand at this point. If my LX80 arrives before all the problems are resolved, I'll be happy to help out with test, etc.




I have posted the summary in the other LX80 forum. Thx


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dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: mmalik]
      #5353791 - 08/05/12 09:02 PM

Mmalik's summary is NOT "THE" summary, and has been challenged.

Mmalik does NOT speak for me, or any test that i have performed, or any post that i have made.
IMHO, he has NOT made any constructive observation, or comment to these threads.

His purpose should be clear to all.
IMHO, he should be ignored.


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TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: neilson]
      #5354624 - 08/06/12 11:11 AM

Peter D.

As you have stated FL is a big deal We have LX55 and have had good luck in AP It not a smooth road your are going to travel down but its fun interesting and the end results pretty pics.

I don't care what mount you use tracking is very important and being able to guide is always a plus the longer the FL the more you will need to guide out errors, in fact every mount has errors the ads are full of them +/- so many arc sec. ect.

The point is nothing is perfect and the more equipment you pile on the harder your mount is going to work, and the longer your FL the more you will see that hard work or errors in your photos, It can be done it just not easy.

Back to how we and I say "WE" because three of use share
equipment I guess you could say a astronomy Co-op.We have a LX55 that we tax the mount hard it carries 22 to 25 lbs now It's rated at 35lbs that's visual we try to stay 50% of the mounts payload, so we are way over the ideal place we would like be with equipment. Now I know 25 lbs is still not half of 40lbs the payload of the LX80 but its better and its a big dollar jump getting over the 50lbs payload mark. Lx55 has a list of problems it's on bushing not bearing the bearing will make it easier to balance. the Lx55
has a bad flex problem with the mount. We have lived with this, you will learn tricks that work with your problems.

And we was looking at bigger OTA a RC 8" not sure we could pull that hat trick.

Oh and I almost forgot Gremlins the mischievous monsters that live in all Astronomy Equipment ,Mounts, Focusers, software when you do AP you will look the beast in the face. I guess that why the LX80 thread you see folks saying you guy are so amazing you don't give up. Well when you live with gremlins, you get familiar with working out problems.all you can do is keep trying it is worth all the work.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5354758 - 08/06/12 12:32 PM

Dave,

You really aren't being fair. If you feel the summary should read otherwise, then WRITE ONE.

MMalik might even delete his at that point.

But just from reading this, I've had trouble figuring out what substantive errors exist in his post for you to object this way.

-Rich

Quote:

Mmalik's summary is NOT "THE" summary, and has been challenged.

Mmalik does NOT speak for me, or any test that i have performed, or any post that i have made.
IMHO, he has NOT made any constructive observation, or comment to these threads.

His purpose should be clear to all.
IMHO, he should be ignored.




Edited by Starhawk (08/06/12 08:22 PM)


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Peter D.
super member
*****

Reged: 02/09/12

Loc: Central New York
Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5355036 - 08/06/12 04:01 PM

Quote:


We have a LX55 that we tax the mount hard it carries 22 to 25 lbs now It's rated at 35lbs that's visual we try to stay 50% of the mounts payload, so we are way over the ideal place we would like be with equipment. Now I know 25 lbs is still not half of 40lbs the payload of the LX80 but its better and its a big dollar jump getting over the 50lbs payload mark. Lx55 has a list of problems it's on bushing not bearing the bearing will make it easier to balance. the Lx55
has a bad flex problem with the mount. We have lived with this, you will learn tricks that work with your problems.

And we was looking at bigger OTA a RC 8" not sure we could pull that hat trick.

Oh and I almost forgot Gremlins the mischievous monsters that live in all Astronomy Equipment ,Mounts, Focusers, software when you do AP you will look the beast in the face. I guess that why the LX80 thread you see folks saying you guy are so amazing you don't give up. Well when you live with gremlins, you get familiar with working out problems.all you can do is keep trying it is worth all the work.



Kevin,

I looked at your website (particularly your early setups); great encouragement for me! You guys are having way too much fun working with what you have: what great progress you've made!

I'm going to take the same path. I'm going to stick with my CG5 for now; it's about the same capacity as your LX55 and you're getting much better results so I know I can get better results by working with my stuff the way you have with yours.

By the same token, I'm going to forgo working on my SN10 for now since I can't afford a mount that could hold it firm enough for AP anyway. Once I get the bugs out of my technique with my CG5, then I might proceed as long as I'm still having fun. Maybe by then the bugs will be worked out of the LX80, but if not other upgrade options could pop up.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Pete


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jmiele
Patron Saint?
*****

Reged: 12/04/10

Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5355047 - 08/06/12 04:08 PM

Like I said in the other thread... be objective. Mmalik's summary was the closest thing to an objective summary we've see. You guys want it amended, speak up. But leave the fanboy stuff out.

Dave your statement about his summary not being the official one made it seems like you and yours would be. Your just another guy, with a broken mount. I think you should relax some. The last time mmalik started in I was quick to defend your efforts and ask that he hold off. But again, there is a lack of objectivity coming the other way now.

Joe


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dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: jmiele]
      #5355138 - 08/06/12 05:17 PM

I have posted my version of the summary. Have a look. I included a point-by-point comparisson. I am trying to be objective. That is what is needed.

I'm not sure i understand the "fanboy" thing....
But i am a Meade user, and i do have an LX80.
Yes... there have been problems. And we are discussing them openly.
And most importantly, we are working to find solutions.
We want our equipment to work properly, and to enjoy our hobby.
Really, nothing more than that.

I will personally be very happy when i have the tripod replaced later this week. I look forward to running the outstanding tests, and posting the results. Hopefully, they will be as i expect. If not.... then the numbers are what the numbers are.

And then, i look forward to returning to my hobby, and enjoy my observations, and imaging.


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jmiele
Patron Saint?
*****

Reged: 12/04/10

Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5355299 - 08/06/12 06:37 PM

It's wasn't meant in any way to be mean spirited David. Thanks for posting your list. I was clarifying the fanboy thing and the other thread became locked. I'm an Apple Computer fanboy, for instance. If it's Apple and it gets released, I'm pretty much gonna be making a purchase. I just refers to someone that is "into" something. It has burned me several times when even Apple has had problems affecting early adopters.

I do hope the tripod is replaced quickly. Is there any chance for the place of purchase to assist with that?

Joe


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neilson
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/22/10

Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5355348 - 08/06/12 07:09 PM

I am glad they are sending your part David and Meade has been so nice to you. My 3 week ordeal with Meade customer service hasn't been the same.
Since you were allowed to talk to some of their managers and they are following this CN thread did they say if they were going to fix the PEC. And I know they are replacing your tripod but are they going to do something about the problem. The leg might come off this one too and so might one of ours. I am concerned about the safety of my equipment.
neilson


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dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: neilson]
      #5355365 - 08/06/12 07:25 PM

Hi Neilson.

I have not discussed PEC with Meade. I do know that Andrew has. But I think he should be the one to address that. We know that Andrew has identified the problem, "could" fix the problem, but is hoping that Meade will be the one to make the fix. I will let him comment from there, if he wishes.

As to doing anything about the Tripod... I don't know. They are sending me replacement parts, and they are currently NOT asking for the return of the broken parts.

Is it safe? I'm not an engineer. But i think i will add one or two blocking nuts at the top of the rod to prevent excessive torque. I will be looking at the spreader "action" closely when i am able.

In the meantime, watch the balance, watch the loading, and watch the torque when adding the spreader. Hopefully, that will be enough.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: LX80 RA Tracking new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5355432 - 08/06/12 08:27 PM

I am an engineer. Are there rotation stops on the tripod legs at the top? It seems that's where the load could be coming from. Just don't torque the bolt in the center so hard. It doesn't need to be more than just enough to get the legs positive engagement. Remember all those tripods which just have a spreader bar with no internal forces generated.

-Rich


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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: LX80 RA Tracking [Re: Starhawk]
      #5355451 - 08/06/12 08:42 PM

Gday Rich

Quote:

I am an engineer. Are there rotation stops on the tripod legs at the top? It seems that's where the load could be coming from.




Got my Mech Engineer hat on now.
If you look at Davids original pictures of the "top" of the tripod, you can clearly see the top of the legs are designed to be the rotation stop. There are no lower spreaders to take any load.
As such, as the tripod gets tensioned, the outward force on the legs can put a very high moment into the top joint, hence explaining the fracture mode David got.
Again, this is OK if the design and materials are suitable,
but how good is the metal in the head????

Andrew


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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: LX80 RA Tracking [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5355464 - 08/06/12 08:47 PM

Gday David

Quote:

I have not discussed PEC with Meade. I do know that Andrew has. But I think he should be the one to address that.




All i can say is Meade have been advised of the problem,
and it affects ALL 497EP/Audiostars, so LX90s, LTs etc
its not just the LX80.
I can knock up a patch to allow people to test with the LX80 if reqd, but it would be nice if it got fixed properly.
Meanwhile, what i think everyone wants to see is a lot of different users doing PEC "OFF", unguided plots so we can see what the general quality of gearing is like.

Andrew


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