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rmollise
Postmaster

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: LX80 RA tracking new

new

[Re: jmiele]
#5320491 - 07/16/12 02:30 PM

Yeah, Joe... I hate to be a naysayer without having laid a hand on the mount... But recent events have given me that Star Wars thing: "I've got a bad feeling about this."

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exparrot
member

Reged: 02/13/12

Loc: DFW, TX

Re: LX80 RA tracking new

new

[Re: mclewis1]
#5320755 - 07/16/12 05:24 PM Attachment (20 downloads)

Mark

The primary dovetail is a single piece, but there's 4 bolts that can be seen on the bottom of the shoe. The assembly does not fit flush against the housing, so it can rotate freely with the DEC lock released. There's been mention that these bolts are used for alignment with a second OTA, but I have not seen that officially specified in the doc. My guess is that they are used to attach it to the cylinder. As yet, I have not attempted to loosen or remove them. FYI, the Meade tool does not fit them which is why I don't think they are for alignment purposes.

Jerry

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ur7x
super member

Reged: 01/08/12

Re: LX80 RA tracking new

new

[Re: rmollise]
#5320789 - 07/16/12 05:45 PM

Have we confirmed that none of the LX80's work properly in polar mode? Or is this an isolated incident?

Or in other words... Do they ALL have this problem?

How is it possible that the mount can work perfectly and track fine in Alt/Az... (which is somewhat harder to do) and then fail miserably in Polar mode. This makes no sense. Meade has been developing and selling Goto systems since when? In theory this should just be a simple software port.

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jmiele
Patron Saint?

Reged: 12/04/10

Re: LX80 RA tracking new

new

[Re: rmollise]
#5320813 - 07/16/12 05:59 PM

Quote:

Yeah, Joe... I hate to be a naysayer without having laid a hand on the mount... But recent events have given me that Star Wars thing: "I've got a bad feeling about this."

I get ya Han, "don't get cocky".

Joe

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jmiele
Patron Saint?

Reged: 12/04/10

Re: LX80 RA tracking new

new

[Re: ur7x]
#5320815 - 07/16/12 06:00 PM

Quote:

Have we confirmed that none of the LX80's work properly in polar mode? Or is this an isolated incident?

Or in other words... Do they ALL have this problem?

How is it possible that the mount can work perfectly and track fine in Alt/Az... (which is somewhat harder to do) and then fail miserably in Polar mode. This makes no sense. Meade has been developing and selling Goto systems since when? In theory this should just be a simple software port.

Nobody said is didn't work. It just doesn't appear to work "well". Yet..

Joe

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mclewis1
Thread Killer

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada

Re: LX80 RA tracking new

new

[Re: exparrot]
#5320846 - 07/16/12 06:36 PM

Jerry,

Thanks for the picture and post ... now that makes much more sense. Meade did it correctly.

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ur7x
super member

Reged: 01/08/12

Re: LX80 RA tracking new

new

[Re: jmiele]
#5320887 - 07/16/12 06:58 PM

Did Meade ever define "work well"?

I guess greater men than you or I once sat around with a grand jury considering the definition of "is"

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jmiele
Patron Saint?

Reged: 12/04/10

Re: LX80 RA tracking new

new

[Re: ur7x]
#5320945 - 07/16/12 07:38 PM

NO comment. I promised myself I'd behave in this thread.

Joe

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Orionis91
sage

Reged: 03/01/10

Loc: Maryland USA

Re: LX80 RA tracking new

new

[Re: jmiele]
#5321019 - 07/16/12 08:35 PM

Well, the clock hasn't ended, and I still believe in the mount, it can be a game changer, but, only if we put the correct expectations against it. There are problems, but, without problems there would never be solutions.

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Tmohr36
member

Reged: 09/27/10

Loc: Nevada

Re: LX80 RA tracking [Re: exparrot]
#5321233 - 07/16/12 11:49 PM

Quote:

Mark

The primary dovetail is a single piece, but there's 4 bolts that can be seen on the bottom of the shoe. The assembly does not fit flush against the housing, so it can rotate freely with the DEC lock released. There's been mention that these bolts are used for alignment with a second OTA, but I have not seen that officially specified in the doc. My guess is that they are used to attach it to the cylinder. As yet, I have not attempted to loosen or remove them. FYI, the Meade tool does not fit them which is why I don't think they are for alignment purposes.

Jerry

Jerry,
I've removed these four bolts and you are correct, they are only there as attaching bolts. There isn't enough "play" if you will, to allow for alignment of the second dovetail.

Here are two more pictures showing what's underneath.

Flickr Photo2

Flickr photo

Edited by Tmohr36 (07/16/12 11:53 PM)

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exparrot
member

Reged: 02/13/12

Loc: DFW, TX

Re: LX80 RA tracking [Re: Tmohr36]
#5321317 - 07/17/12 01:06 AM

Tom,
Thanks for those shots. With this design, I guess Meade could sell different types of saddles at some point. The more I use and learn about this mount, the more I love it.

Hopefully we can get this RA drift issue resolved. I need to get off my can and give Meade Support a call. I just haven't had time during work hours. The fact that yours doesn't have the problem tells me it can ultimately be resolved. And, I'm holding out that Andrew will solve the mystery single-handed! Andrew?

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OzAndrewJ
professor emeritus

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: LX80 RA tracking [Re: exparrot]
#5321328 - 07/17/12 01:27 AM

Gday Jerry

Quote:

And, I'm holding out that Andrew will solve the mystery single-handed! Andrew?

Hope you have a big bladder

Not having "physical" access to a unit means i cant use some of my normal tools to poke and prod deeper.
What we really need are a few other LX80 owners to do the Polar tests ( or just try to use the mount as a GEM ) and chime in, to see if we can see a pattern.
I have just found another bug?? associated with calibration, but its been in the firmware since the Audiostars came out, so unless its tripping up something very specific in the newest LX80 cards, i have to discard it
( Ie I Asked Tom to do a recalibrate on his unit and it still worked afterwards )

Andrew

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neilson
sage

Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: outside Pleasanton, Texas

Re: LX80 RA tracking [Re: OzAndrewJ]
#5321342 - 07/17/12 01:54 AM

Hi, Andrew my LX80 mount arrived about 2 weeks ago from OPT with the 10"OTA. I just tried polar mode for the first time and it tracks good on stars like deneb and on saturn but on Anteres it will not track. Its completely out of the 26mm eyepiece in 1.5 minutes. I tried setting the RA percent to 50% then 80% and it was out of the eyepiece in maybe 2 minutes. I tried re doing the polar alignment about 8 times but I still got the same results. My mount is very level and balanced. Alt/Az mode almost centers the stars during alignment and it seams to track good. My latitude is 28.58 and I use the easy 2 star alignment. I posted this on LX80 yahoo group but it hasnt shown yet. I hope this info helps.
Neilson Shepard

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OzAndrewJ
professor emeritus

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: LX80 RA tracking [Re: neilson]
#5321381 - 07/17/12 02:54 AM

Gday Neilson

Quote:

I hope this info helps.

Its useful for reference, but its also just made my head explode

From what you say, in Polar, it works on some targets, but not others???

Just to keep sweet with all our other datasets,
Can you try the indoors 1hr dummy polar one star test listed earlier.
( just so we get a real baseline of how much RA drift you see. )

Andrew

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neilson
sage

Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: outside Pleasanton, Texas

Re: LX80 RA tracking [Re: OzAndrewJ]
#5321613 - 07/17/12 09:41 AM

I'll give that test a try but just so you know when I was looking at Anteres it was to the south southwest low in the horizon. I know that probably doesn't matter since the OTA was balanced. Last night from 9:30pm until 11pm.
I dont know if this matters but during alignment if I didn't click enter right away after centering the star it would start drifting right away,and I would have to re center it.
Neilson

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dmdouglass
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ

Re: LX80 RA tracking [Re: OzAndrewJ]
#5321623 - 07/17/12 09:47 AM

Greetings all... I think that my wife and I are finally out of the storm. We are currently at Great Basin National Park, just east of Ely, Nevada, at an elevation of about 7,500 feet. Although it was still raining on us yesterday evening, and through the night, this morning is clear, and the forecast is for more clear weather today and tonight.

Interestingly, according to the NPS, "this area is one of the last dark sky sites in America". We shall see !! Sounds like a good place to set up the LX80 and do some tests tonight. We are, of course, going to lay over to take advantage of this unique opportunity.

Andrew... correct if i am wrong, and i am thinking "on the fly" as it were, but i have always heard that planets, the sun, and the moon, are not good for alignment, and/or tracking tests. Neilson referenced Saturn.

If I recall correctly (looking for confirmation here…), I think there are actually four different tracking rates for these objects. The normal tracking rate (sidereal) is for “everything else”, while there are specific rates for Lunar, Solar, and Planets.

I plan on doing the polar tests, and will slew to several targets, allowing “drift time” between slews. Is there any other specific test that you would like to see? I could image a few targets, but I think we already have enough data, once the drift is confirmed on multiple targets.

Let me know.

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dmdouglass
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ

Re: LX80 RA tracking [Re: dmdouglass]
#5321656 - 07/17/12 10:12 AM

I am thinking that we are confirming severe drift in polar alignment. To be clear though, I think we are also confirming virtually excellent tracking in Alt/AZ, which is part of the mystery. I also believe that we are reporting good “go-to’s” in both modes. Again, part of the mystery. A key question will be, at what drift rate is the LX80 operating while in polar alignment?? Andrew has reported that his study of the raw data seems to indicate that the expected (proper) speed commands are being given to the motors.

It is interesting to read “it drifted out of my FOV (xxmm eyepiece) in x minutes”, but what was the FOV ??? In my case, The OTA is a Meade 6” SC, with a focal length of 1524. The eyepiece is a Meade Series 5000 26mm, which has an apparent FOV of 60 degrees. Mag = 1524/26 or 58.6. True FOV = 60/58.6 or 1.0238 degrees. I will call it 1 Degree. The observation will start off centered (visual), so we have about one-half degree range before drift will remove object from FOV. That fact, combined with the “time” (which is of course not precise) will help determine the approximate rate.

The 1 hour tests we were doing before, reading the RA/DEC from the Audiostar, provide a better picture of the drift rate. I believe that what we are doing with the visual tests is simply trying to confirm that what we “see” in the numbers, is actually happening.

Needless to say (but I shall say it anyway…) the drift in polar alignment is not acceptable. Not to usage in imaging, and not acceptable to visual obersers either. This is a major problem, and needs to be fixed. Hopefully in a firmware update for the Audiostar…. At some time (soon), one of us probably needs to report all this to Meade, and get some feedback from them.

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Starhawk
Post Laureate

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona

Re: LX80 RA tracking [Re: dmdouglass]
#5321670 - 07/17/12 10:19 AM

I guess that settles it, then. There's no point in trying to measure PE under those circumstances; it's just wrong.

Thanks for giving it another try, Dave.

-Rich

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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie no more

Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio

Re: LX80 RA tracking [Re: dmdouglass]
#5321671 - 07/17/12 10:19 AM

Quote:

It is interesting to read “it drifted out of my FOV (xxmm eyepiece) in x minutes”, but what was the FOV ???

Even more important is the question, "In what axis was the drift?". If it's dec drift then the tracking rate has nothing to do with the issue; it's just polar misalignment.

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Starhawk
Post Laureate

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona

Re: LX80 RA tracking [Re: jmiele]
#5321682 - 07/17/12 10:26 AM

They're at the point where they cleared their inventory for these new products and none of them work. And apparently they are still shipping these non-working LX 80s.

This is really depressing.

-Rich

Quote:

I agree Uncle Rod. As I posted in another thread, I think they should have put all their energy into this design and made it robust, and work super accurately. It could have been a game changer.

Best,
Joe

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