Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

Pages: << 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | (show all)
TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5437519 - 09/24/12 06:08 AM Attachment (30 downloads)

Neilson
one other item make sure you get the right enclosure check your drive if its a IDE or SATA connection


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5437541 - 09/24/12 07:01 AM Attachment (26 downloads)

It was nice to get away went to Rocket Launch in northern Oklahoma. Solar scopes was set up so folks could view the sun.I would have brought my LX80 and a solar rig. JUST NEED A HAND CONTROLLER!!
We all had a great time about 40 rockets flew that day. Also
an M class carbon fiber air frame made it just shy of 11,000 feet.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5437676 - 09/24/12 09:06 AM

Quote:

Mike

Looks like you have a good data run, I guess all went well with PHD? can we get a photo of your set up? you said one out of 3 can we get the other two? I would like to see some more if your up to it? also try to do some exposures runs when you get a chance pick a target do 30 sec,60 , 90,150,300,400,600, 780 sec. all guided.

Thanks for the data




Kevin,

I need to redo the PHD run on a,known FL scope using a known star. Those were 2 of the 3 thinks Andrew asked me about the run. If the weather cooperates I'll have a good run tonight.

As soon as I get PHD right, I'll do some guided and unguided shots and send them.

Edited by Mkofski (09/24/12 09:10 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5437793 - 09/24/12 10:19 AM

Sound good, so you had no problems that's good!
Reminder rename your PHD file.

Good luck and clear skies


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5437856 - 09/24/12 11:02 AM Attachment (37 downloads)

Kevin & Andrew,

I'll give PHD another shot tonight using my main scope (100mm f/5 Orion refractor) and make note of the star.

I'm going to have trouble for a while trying guided exposures. I have the Orion Starshoot G3 mono camera that I'm using in the PHD test for guiding and a Canon 40D that I was going to use for imaging. I'm waiting on a Hap Griffin cable and don't know when that will arrive. I guess I can try manual exposures saved to a flash card. Would that be sufficient?

I do have a older Meade LPI (webcam) that my Mac will recognize but I didn't think that that would be very good for the imaging.

Prior to the log from early today I did not do any drift alignment. I'll add that tonight. The procedure for doing it with PHD looks like something I can follow. It has been a long time since I have felt this ignorant!

This is my setup currently but the PHD run was with the 50mm finder.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5438135 - 09/24/12 01:46 PM

Mike
Keep it simple.Do what works, as far a guided photos I'm not In any kind of rush. Just would like to see what the guided looked like over time. On the 50mm guide camera if your not sure of the Fl measure from the Objective Lens to where the camera is focused good measure to the body of the camera. That willn't be exact, but it will be close enough.(1 inch =25.4mm) And be careful of payload weight if it start to act weird lighten the load. Do you know what each OTA weights?

Sharp looking set up Cool old barn in the back ground Do you have dark skies?

Good luck on the weather and PHD data runs !

Edited by TALK2KEV (09/24/12 01:49 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5438156 - 09/24/12 01:58 PM

Oklahoma City my back yard white zone we drive a hour away to observing site bortle 3

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
brokenwave
sage


Reged: 05/10/11

Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
Re: Why me? new [Re: neilson]
      #5438185 - 09/24/12 02:16 PM

Get yourself a portable hard drive, 500GB are $80. As a photographer I always back up my photo's because stuff happens. Always back up, using a physical drive is much quicker than using a service.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5438430 - 09/24/12 04:49 PM

Kevin,

My Hap Griffin cable arrived today so I may be ready to do PE test with PHD, drift alignment with PHD and guided exposures with my Canon and Nebulosity. All I need to do is run through the steps and software to get ready. If weather permits, I should have somthing to look at in the next day or 2.

It is a nice old barn. It and 4 other out buildings were appraised at $0.00 when we both the house and 4 acres about 12 years ago. I have fairly dark skies. Indianapolis is about 30 miles west of us but I can see the Milky Way most nights if it is not cloudy. From where I observe my house blocks the western horizon so Indy dosent present any real problem. I have one real big Maple that is a problem on the south but have corn fields on 3 sides.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5438509 - 09/24/12 05:35 PM

Kevin,

The 80mm refractor with finder is 6.5 pounds and the 100mm refractor is 8.5. I plan to put the guide camera (Orion Starshoot G3) on the 100mm f/5 and the imaging camera (Canon 40D) on the 80mm f/7. I'll just use the finder for finding.

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: Why me? new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5438559 - 09/24/12 06:06 PM

Gday Mike

Quote:

I need to redo the PHD run on a,known FL scope using a known star.




The known focal length and target star is only required to calculate the absolute magnitude of the PE. If you always use a star near the equator, then that bit of data isnt required.
The plot you got last night is still good enough to get a basic analysis of the gearing and what the errors "look" like.
It does look rather ragged, but relatively repeatable.
The rate at which it changes is scary tho.

Andrew


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Why me? new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5438574 - 09/24/12 06:15 PM

Quote:


It does look rather ragged, but relatively repeatable.
The rate at which it changes is scary tho.





Andrew,

I was afraid of that. I'm going to do some other testing tonight with a longer FL OTA. I assume that the error with a very short FL is less accurate than if the FL is longer. Do I have that right? Don't guess that would effect the rate of change. At this point you could suspect operator error for at least some of the errors!

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: Why me? new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5438607 - 09/24/12 06:41 PM

Gday Mike

Quote:

I'm going to do some other testing tonight with a longer FL OTA. I assume that the error with a very short FL is less accurate than if the FL is longer. Do I have that right?




Correct. The longer the focal length, the more movement you will see on the sensor ( pixel wise ) for a given truesky error. The 200mm gave reasonable data, but the main scope will give more resolution to the moves.

Quote:

Don't guess that would effect the rate of change.



Correct. The rate of change is in arcsecs per second and is totally tied to the gearing errors. The longer focal length just allows you to inspect the errors better.

Quote:

At this point you could suspect operator error for at least some of the errors!




Cant see why, ( unless you were sitting alongside the mount and tapping it ).
Once you have got PHD logging data correctly, as long as you dont touch the scope, and its not too windy etc, operator error disappears for this process.

Andrew

( I almost have the reading of PHD log files working in my app so will look at the rates later. PECPrep displays the data OK, but i cant find a way to zoom in )


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Why me? new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5438635 - 09/24/12 07:15 PM

You are not supose to tap the scope?? I did have a little "Men at Work" going during the run...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: Why me? new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5438759 - 09/24/12 08:46 PM Attachment (24 downloads)

Gday Mike

Quote:

Quote:
At this point you could suspect operator error for at least some of the errors!


Cant see why, ( unless you were sitting alongside the mount and tapping it ).




And now i'm not so sure
I looked at your RA data last night ( in PECPrep ), but didn't bother to check the DEC.
I loaded that this morning and its almost as big as the RA but inverted.
There is also a lot of drift so the polar alignment was also off,
but i really think the camera wasnt squared correctly relative to the RA axis.
How do you check that the guide camera axes match the true RA/DEC axes??

Andrew
Attached is a plot of your data ( normalised for drift )


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Why me? new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5438784 - 09/24/12 08:59 PM

Quote:

Gday Mike

Quote:

Quote:
At this point you could suspect operator error for at least some of the errors!


Cant see why, ( unless you were sitting alongside the mount and tapping it ).




And now i'm not so sure
I looked at your RA data last night ( in PECPrep ), but didn't bother to check the DEC.
I loaded that this morning and its almost as big as the RA but inverted.
There is also a lot of drift so the polar alignment was also off,
but i really think the camera wasnt squared correctly relative to the RA axis.
How do you check that the guide camera axes match the true RA/DEC axes??

Andrew
Attached is a plot of your data ( normalised for drift )




Andrew,

Told you... operator error. Didn't know I needed to check the squareness of the camera axis with that of the scope. I'll be using the 100mm refractor tonight rather than the finder scope. Is there a way for a normal human to check the camera axis agains that of the scope?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: Why me? new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5438836 - 09/24/12 09:32 PM

Gday Mike

Quote:

Is there a way for a normal human to check the camera axis agains that of the scope?




The simplest way is to centre a star on the lappie screen, then using the Hbx at say speed 2, use the left and right slew keys to move the scope.
As you press the L/R keys, the scope will move in RA relative to target.
You want this movement to result in a purely horizontal motion on the display.
If not, loosen the camera and rotate it in the scope until it does, then lock.

Andrew


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5439162 - 09/25/12 04:45 AM Attachment (21 downloads)

Mike
I use PHD to true the camera to the axis.(see Photo)use 1sec loop or Live view its the circle arrow icon at the bottom next to the telescope icon
click tools goto Coarse Grid use a bright star and move you mount with the HCX arrows in RA only watch PHD and see if the star follows the grid line or does it cross it? make adjustments to the camera by loosening the set screw and spin the camera just slightly after you get the camera the way you want it. look at the camera make note of how the camera sets on the telescope look at labels on the camera or connectors this will help you on set up the next time.

Edited by TALK2KEV (09/25/12 06:33 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5439192 - 09/25/12 06:09 AM

Mike
after you true the camera to the axis of your mount to get started drift alignment

I use Autostar Suite to push the mount around you can do this all with your HCX and look at RA DEC read outs I just like doing it with the Autostar Suite and Envisage its a couple of extra steps the way I do it.

Balance the mount with everything the way you would use it in the nights run doing AP with cameras extension tubes.

After balance

Only use One star alignment
set the telescope in polar home that's with the counter weight bar Parallel to the north leg. The scope should be pointing north as well. Match up O degrees on the Dec setting circles and the RA arrow should match the EQ mark I used a sharpie marker on the edge of the ring and made a mark to make this easier.

Turn on the the mount set time, date and location make sure you are using LX80 polar mode in HCX use quiet slew and set up your fl of your telescope remember make you fl longer that what you really are.

in the HCX go to Set up under set up choose

Alignment then choose ONE STAR

HCX will ask you if the scope is in the polar home if so hit (Enter)

1st star will be Polaris after slewing to the star adjust only the mount using the Meade tool until Polaris is centered adjust Azimuth and Latitude. after you center the star. press (ENTER)
The HCX will pick the next star, On this star use only the HCX arrows to center the star after it is centered press(ENTER)

NOTE turn on Envisage software to see live view of the star field can you see the bright alignment star on the camera if so center the star once the star is centered. Look in your finder scope is the star centered there? If not make adjustments ,while adjustments are being made make sure you leave live view on so you can see the star is still there. A light touch will pay off here not to move the mount to much. now can you see the star in the finder as well as Live View on Envisage? Press (ENTER) the HCX will ask snyc here hit (ENTER) once more.

Open Autostar Suite if you have not already and look at the map dose it show the right star on the map? If not make sure
under telescope tab (Auto track) is clicked. It should be displaying a map with the bright alignment star. Now let go back to Polaris using Autostar suite uncheck the Auto track then click the (N) Icon at the top of Autostar Suite this will pop up Polaris on the map. Use zoom icon three over to the left now with Polaris zoomed in. Click on Polaris it will open a box in that box click (slew telescope) NOTE

watch your cords to the camera and power cord to the mount make sure they dont get hung up on anything this is always a
good habit to get into any big move look to see if the cords are OK.

Now that you are on Polaris is it the finder scope? If so is it in the Live View? If not adjust the mount using Meade tool and adjust Azimuth and the Latitude until the star is centered. If Kochab is up and can be seen now tell Autostar Suite to goto that star. If its to low or obstructed use Dubhe in the bowl of the big dipper. Just as before click on the star then tell the telescope to slew (WATCH CORDS) is this star in the camera's FOV if so center with the hand controller after it is centered sync on the star. now if you want you can go back to Polaris
one more time if you happy with how close everthing is now we can do a drift.

Remember when doing a One star alignment any adjustments on Polaris is done with the mount adjustments and the Meade tool DON"T SYNC ON POLARIS any adjustment to the next star you choose use the HCX arrow and sync after centering.

Also if you are going to observe the next day and you are able to leave the mount out goto Utilities in the HCX then choose (PARK SCOPE) this will take you scope back to polar home.****THIS IS A GOOD HABIT TO GET INTO EVEN IF YOUR NOT GOING TO LEAVE THE MOUNT OUT*****. The next night turn on the mount enter date and time then choose object then hit goto the mount should nail it.

Never leave it out where animals or kids can bump it or climb on it Always cover the scope and mount I use TeleGizmos cover this cover is not intended for 24/7 use in the field but a few days you'll be find.

Next Drift alignment with PHD

Edited by TALK2KEV (09/25/12 06:29 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TALK2KEV
sage


Reged: 03/08/06

Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Why me? new [Re: TALK2KEV]
      #5439267 - 09/25/12 08:06 AM Attachment (17 downloads)

MIKE
Drift Alignment using PHD

Azimuth Adjustment

First we are going to use Autostar Suite to move the mount choose a star close to the meridian and at Zero degrees DEC click on the star in Autostar suite now slew. Now clover the scope and take a dark frame at 1 sec now click on a star PHD will calibrate, after Calibration PHD will try to guide on that star. hit the stop sign open tools tab then choose (Enable Graph)move the graph to the side so you can see both the PHD screen and the small graph window. Now in the graph window you want to change a couple of things one the RA/DeC tab hit it it will change to dx/dy then you want to turn off Dec corrections goto the bottom right corner see the drop down tab that may say (AUTO) change it to (OFF) now hit the clear tab on the graph the goto the main screen and click loop camera the circle arrow icon now choose a star click on the star you wish to guide on and watch the graph.
At this point we are only going to watch the red line and let it follow the star for a while. On the graph window at the top is a tab that has a number in it (50) (100) (250) (500) I set that to (100) watch until the red line hits the second horizontal line is the red line climbing or falling.
Hit the stop sign goto tools tab and click on (coarse grid)now start camera loop see a star to far right, using the meade tool adjust the azimuth ONLY watch that star now move to the left using the grid for reference if you see another star pop up on the right move it also to the left. Now that you have moved the mount alot in azimuth in tools tab click (No Overlay) this will remove the grid. Now click clear on graph then hit stop, then hit loop camera arrow click on a star.watch the graph until it hits the first horizontal line if the red line is not falling as fast then you are moving the mount the right way if it falling faster we went the wrong way so remember when you two full screens the wrong way so to undo that go three or four screens the other way. You will get to a point where you are seeing the red line level out (see photo) First line at the bottom and the steepest the next a little better and the third even better look at the bottom graph this is what your looking for the more flat that line is the less your mount will work due to polar alignment issues.

Edited by TALK2KEV (09/25/12 08:45 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: << 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | (show all)


Extra information
3 registered and 28 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Dave M, richard7, bilgebay 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 68026

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics