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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: PhD file from October 11 new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5466296 - 10/12/12 03:37 AM Attachment (61 downloads)

Gday Mike

Just had a look at the data.
Its orrible.
It looks like huge sections of the PE are coming from the geartrain, and its not at a frequency that repeats evenly, hence PEC will not help with this.
Have attached a plot of your last 2-1/2 turn grab to show how sections desynchronise on each turn. I have marked a few points with arrows, to show where the PE changes direction based on the worm turn you are on. I have plotted this so that one grid square is approx one PEC bin ( with then new 11sec bins )

Andrew


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: PhD file from October 11 new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5466303 - 10/12/12 03:47 AM

Andrew,

I thought it looked bad. Is there anyway operator error can explain the results?

Mike


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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: PhD file from October 11 new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5466313 - 10/12/12 04:02 AM

Gday Mike

Quote:

Is there anyway operator error can explain the results




Not sure there.
I found that there was a lot of info in your prev log files as well, and that PECPrep only uses the last bit.
I extracted them manually and they all showed a similar pattern, but at different frequencies to the latest dataset.
Generally though, unless you are fidgetting with the mount, or have PEC on or are guiding, the data collection process is pretty straight forwards.
The only odd thing i see in your data is the DEC adjustmebt that ocurred mid the second turn.
Not sure why that is there.

Andrew


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Griffin!
sage


Reged: 09/12/10

Re: PhD file from October 11 new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5478726 - 10/19/12 12:17 PM

So, has anyone used the new update? It seems like all of the lx80 threads, and the yahoo group, went quiet right after it came out.

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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
LX80 tracking new [Re: Griffin!]
      #5478751 - 10/19/12 12:29 PM

Quote:

So, has anyone used the new update? It seems like all of the lx80 threads, and the yahoo group, went quiet right after it came out.




Griffin!,

I'm trying to get a good test with PHD before upgrading. Haven't had a good night in over a week. As soon as I can test the mount with the older version I'll be installing the update.


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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: PhD file from October 11 new [Re: Griffin!]
      #5479219 - 10/19/12 05:58 PM

Gday Griffin

I have done a lot of bench testing, but only having an ETX, i cant really do precise sky testing, as the gears arent good enough.
A lot has changed, and it looks like some bugs are gone and some new ones have come in.

Polar tracking, Pulse Guiding and PEC have been totally rewritten.
With PulseGuiding,
serial guiding looks like it will work OK in both polar and alt az now.
I suspect ST4 guiding may be a bit more variable, ( esp with existing 909s or clones ), but until the new lump comes out, i cant confirm that what happens is a bug or a feature.

PEC has been rewritten, and now calculates correctly, but instead of 150 bins per rev, there are now only 50, thus it is lot less able to fix smaller errors.
It also appears to write new data to the "current bin" vs the "just finished bin" (ie phase shifted by about 11seconds), and the post train normalising doesnt appear to work correctly.
As such, training will work, and not crash badly as per before, but i dont think it will be as good as it could be. I have already patched most of these ( except the normalising )

Andrew still digging


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neilson
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/22/10

Re: PhD file from October 11 new [Re: Griffin!]
      #5479688 - 10/19/12 11:14 PM

Hi everyone,
Yes it seems like someone would have tried it out by now. I am eager to see it finally working good now.
neilson


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: PhD file from October 25 new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5488072 - 10/25/12 05:37 AM Attachment (50 downloads)

Andrew,

Here is a zip file with the latest PhD log file and a cropped 40 sec unguided pic of a star field. I don't know what star field... it is 5:30 AM and by the time I took any pics, I didn't care what they were of.

Mike


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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: PhD file from October 25 new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5489019 - 10/25/12 05:57 PM Attachment (21 downloads)

Gday Mike

Quote:

Here is a zip file with the latest PhD log file




Still looks horrible,
but more interestingly, it still shows a very large jump in DEC partway in, ( similar to the plot higher up in the thread ).
IIRC, David, Kevin and Neilson all noted a jump like this when using PHD???

Notwithstanding the DEC drifting, It also shows relatively large DEC movement, ( that shouldnt be there in Polar )
The RA PE is again massive and appears to come from the geartrain at an odd frequency ( relative to the worm ).
Not looking good for using PEC to fix it.

Andrew


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: PhD file from October 25 new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5489675 - 10/26/12 03:42 AM

So, how many of these things have shown this type of behavior? It's 100% of the ones getting checked out.

Pretty expensive for what they end up being able to do.

-Rich


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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: PhD file from October 25 new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5489680 - 10/26/12 03:59 AM

Gday Rich

If you mean the jump, dont know.
Two of Mikes plots "show" a clear jump in his data.
The three others i mentioned had "seen" jumps where PHD lost its lock, but i dont know if they actually had any "data" that showed it.
Some of the weird V shaped piccies posted in the early days may have been caused by a rapid DEC jump whilst tracking???
The new firmware reverts to pure polar tracking if PEC is ON, so maybe if Mike retests with PEC erased, then set to ON, we can see if it behaves differently.

Quote:

Pretty expensive for what they end up being able to do




Cant disagree there, esp if the geartrain PE is as bad as it appears.
Looks like a lightweight visual AltAz grabngo,
with the ability to swap OTAs.

Andrew


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: PhD file from October 25 new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5489975 - 10/26/12 10:41 AM

Hey Andrew,

That sounds like a plan. Too bad the moon is nearing full. Then again, drive checkouts can still go on.

-Rich


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neilson
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/22/10

Re: PhD file from October 25 new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5494202 - 10/29/12 08:13 AM

Hi Everyone,
Its been 20 days since Meade released the new firmware update. Has anyone been able to get a 5min. image in polar mode with it yet. I was hoping to see images posted everywhere but I can't find one here or on any other form. I haven't heard of anyone failing at trying it either. So there's still hope. Actually one guy said he tried 5min but said he "seemed to have a DEC movement that may well have been a small slew instruction", or "a gust of wind". But I guess he didn't try again. Hopefully he will try another attempt soon.
I keep reading about how peoples mounts tracked ok visually, but we knew there is no problem there. I am anxious to see some 5 min images from the LX80. Good or Bad

neilson

Edited by neilson (10/29/12 08:38 AM)


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
LX80 tracking new [Re: neilson]
      #5494246 - 10/29/12 08:55 AM

Hi Neilson,

I'm still trying to get some good data from PhD before updating the firmware. The weather has been uncooperative the last few weeks.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: LX80 tracking new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5494330 - 10/29/12 09:56 AM

Why aren't you upgrading the firmware? I thought they were taking a crack at fixing just this behavior.

-Rich


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: LX80 tracking new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5494356 - 10/29/12 10:09 AM

Rich,

I want to get a good/accurate set of data From PhD before I upgrade. To do that, I need to learn what I'm doing which has taken longer than I expected. Just want to be sure that some of the bad data I have collectd so far isn't due to user error. I'd love to get all this wrapped up and do some observing!


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: LX80 tracking new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5494783 - 10/29/12 02:53 PM

Fair enough. And it should be able to answer what's different between versions. Hopefully, the end result has magic in store.

-Rich


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: LX80 tracking new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5494995 - 10/29/12 05:07 PM

Quote:

Fair enough. And it should be able to answer what's different between versions. Hopefully, the end result has magic in store.

-Rich




Rich,

I think "my" end results will be better than what I've seen so far because I should be able to eliminate the "user error". The firmware update may help the mount but I bet that there are mechanical limitations that will keep this mount in the less than ideal category for AP. So far I do really like the mount for visual and hope that it ends up being an Ok to good beginning AP mount. Learning curve being what it is, (stepper than I expected) a beginning mount may last me a long time.


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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: LX80 tracking new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5494998 - 10/29/12 05:11 PM

Gday Rich

Quote:

And it should be able to answer what's different between versions.




Thats not something i suspect you will "see" ( other than maybe the DEC jumps ).
Guiding has changed, but that has nothing to do with PEC off, unguided tracking tests.
Polar tracking has gone back to a default tracking rate,
but only if PEC is ON or you are within 30seconds of a guide command.
PEC itself has been changed, but again, it wont affect PEC off unguided tests.
To do a true test with the new firmware i "think" you will need to
Erase PEC and then turn PEC ON
Ie play back a benign version.
This will keep the scope tracking in pure polar mode.

Quote:

Hopefully, the end result has magic in store.




I fear there is no magic in the pumpkins this time.

Andrew


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: PhD file from November 11 [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5514284 - 11/11/12 11:21 AM Attachment (15 downloads)

G'day Andrew,

Here the file for my last try at PHD. Looks about the same to me as the previous ones.

Edited by Mkofski (11/11/12 03:05 PM)


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