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mmalik
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/13/12

Loc: USA
Re: unguided images new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5519978 - 11/14/12 06:58 PM

Quote:

They were wearing LX800 T-shirts.




Where is LX800 re-release at; any updates?


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chboss
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/24/08

Loc: Zurich Switzerland
Re: unguided images new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5520126 - 11/14/12 08:49 PM

Wow it is not a good sign that this thread is still going.
At least the owners seem to have a lot of patience tinkering with their guiding...

best regards
Chris


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: unguided images new [Re: chboss]
      #5520194 - 11/14/12 09:31 PM

What is bad about this thread still going?

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ur7x
sage


Reged: 01/08/12

Re: unguided images new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5521615 - 11/15/12 05:36 PM

Quote:

What is bad about this thread still going?




The logic kinda goes like this...

On just about any other "Please help me with my mount" thread... where a mount owner states the they a frustrated that their mount is doing X when they think is should be doing Y... Within 5 or 6 responses, the original problem is identified and at least one or two common solutions are proposed and everyone goes on to the next thing.

But with this mount (and this thread), and not to diminish the significant headway that has been made in any way, here we are 65 pages in and we are STILL struggling with a dual mode, PEC, 40# rated, mount that seems to have serious issues holding up a 25# OTA, even more serious issues tracking anything in polar mode for more than a few seconds, and now we are seeing PE graphs that look like a New Zealand seismograph.

If after 65 pages and almost 1300 posts everyone is still debugging a mount, even if people continue to have "ah-ha" moments... Something is a little amiss.


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biz
Vendor


Reged: 11/08/09

Loc: New Zealand
Re: unguided images new [Re: ur7x]
      #5521940 - 11/15/12 09:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What is bad about this thread still going?




The logic kinda goes like this...

On just about any other "Please help me with my mount" thread... where a mount owner states the they a frustrated that their mount is doing X when they think is should be doing Y... Within 5 or 6 responses, the original problem is identified and at least one or two common solutions are proposed and everyone goes on to the next thing.

But with this mount (and this thread), and not to diminish the significant headway that has been made in any way, here we are 65 pages in and we are STILL struggling with a dual mode, PEC, 40# rated, mount that seems to have serious issues holding up a 25# OTA, even more serious issues tracking anything in polar mode for more than a few seconds, and now we are seeing PE graphs that look like a New Zealand seismograph.

If after 65 pages and almost 1300 posts everyone is still debugging a mount, even if people continue to have "ah-ha" moments... Something is a little amiss.




I couldnt agree more.
cheers.
Graham.. from NZ


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chboss
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/24/08

Loc: Zurich Switzerland
Re: unguided images new [Re: ur7x]
      #5522080 - 11/15/12 10:56 PM

Quote:

If after 65 pages and almost 1300 posts everyone is still debugging a mount, even if people continue to have "ah-ha" moments... Something is a little amiss.




That was exactly what I meant with my comment...
I am really puzzled how a manufacturer can release a product in this state to the market, especially if they are not a newcomer in this field!

best regards
Chris


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neilson
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/22/10

Re: unguided images new [Re: chboss]
      #5522133 - 11/15/12 11:46 PM

This mount is still in the beta testing stage.

Seriously though, I think the problem is that Meade doesn't think there is anything wrong with this mount.

neilson

Edited by neilson (11/15/12 11:49 PM)


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ky1duck
member


Reged: 12/13/12

Loc: paducah,ky
Re: unguided images new [Re: neilson]
      #5584981 - 12/23/12 01:00 AM

after reading for hours i still cant figure out what i am doing wrong. as i see others here using PHD and pempro with there lx80 mounts via ascom drivers and 505 cable. my set up is
lx80 mount in eq
audiostar with a3s4
orion ssag with 50mm f3.4
ascom platform 6 with meade lx200 clasic driver

with PHD i get the same problem i see here without guiding the star will stay close to center for hours. but when i hit calabrate it starts moving up the screen and wont stop till i make it.

with pempro after hitting the connect for mount and cam dosent matter witch way i tell the mount to slew using the arrow keys on scree it moves east then back for all for directions moves east only. hopefully i can get something worked out here.

and also after upgrading to A3S4 there is a new setting under telescope ( german mount traning ) but i cant find any info anywhere on ho to do it. called meade and all i get is we will email you something but after 3 calls still no email.

on a side note scope works great with starry nights and the sky. goto's work great

thanks
robert

Edited by ky1duck (12/23/12 02:52 PM)


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: unguided images new [Re: ur7x]
      #5585116 - 12/23/12 05:23 AM

This really says it all. Typical problems like pilot error, software foulups, or mechanical faults on one copy have a short half-life on the forum. But all of these have the same problems, and no one has succeeded in fixing one, despite getting some of the best expertise in the hobby involved in trying.

-Rich

Quote:

Quote:

What is bad about this thread still going?




The logic kinda goes like this...

On just about any other "Please help me with my mount" thread... where a mount owner states the they a frustrated that their mount is doing X when they think is should be doing Y... Within 5 or 6 responses, the original problem is identified and at least one or two common solutions are proposed and everyone goes on to the next thing.

But with this mount (and this thread), and not to diminish the significant headway that has been made in any way, here we are 65 pages in and we are STILL struggling with a dual mode, PEC, 40# rated, mount that seems to have serious issues holding up a 25# OTA, even more serious issues tracking anything in polar mode for more than a few seconds, and now we are seeing PE graphs that look like a New Zealand seismograph.

If after 65 pages and almost 1300 posts everyone is still debugging a mount, even if people continue to have "ah-ha" moments... Something is a little amiss.




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ky1duck
member


Reged: 12/13/12

Loc: paducah,ky
Re: unguided images new [Re: ky1duck]
      #5588743 - 12/25/12 06:06 PM

Quote:

after reading for hours i still cant figure out what i am doing wrong. as i see others here using PHD and pempro with there lx80 mounts via ascom drivers and 505 cable. my set up is
lx80 mount in eq
audiostar with a3s4
orion ssag with 50mm f3.4
ascom platform 6 with meade lx200 clasic driver

with PHD i get the same problem i see here without guiding the star will stay close to center for hours. but when i hit calabrate it starts moving up the screen and wont stop till i make it.

with pempro after hitting the connect for mount and cam dosent matter witch way i tell the mount to slew using the arrow keys on scree it moves east then back for all for directions moves east only. hopefully i can get something worked out here.

and also after upgrading to A3S4 there is a new setting under telescope ( german mount traning ) but i cant find any info anywhere on ho to do it. called meade and all i get is we will email you something but after 3 calls still no email.

on a side note scope works great with starry nights and the sky. goto's work great

thanks
robert



after playing around and taking my mount to a friends house and hooking it to an older computer running xp with all the .net framework on it mount and software work great. so it has something to do with my laptop running windows 7 64bit. and not alowing me to have all the .net framework that the ascom drivers need.


robert


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dksolar3294
member


Reged: 08/22/12

Guided images new [Re: ky1duck]
      #5652684 - 01/30/13 04:24 PM

I have both WinXp-32bit and Win7-64bit computers and I have not had an luck getting the LX80 to autoguide by the ASCOM/RS232 link to the Autostar497 hand control. I have seen some movement, however it is generally always eastwards.

I also have tried the AutoguiderPortModule (APM#07509) which I ordered when first available last October & before it became unavailable in December. With the APM, I also see movement eastward with PHD and MaxIm5. Most autoguider ST4 ports are nothing more than a connection for a switch closure. Short any one of the 4 direction contacts to ground and the mount should move in the corresponding direction at guide speed. That is how the LX200 & CGEM work. When I connect a set of 4 switches to the APM, I see East movement for each of the E,W,S contacts and no movement with the N contact.

Robert: If you are seeing proper autoguider results on a WinXp, then please explain in detail what your setup is. Is the WinXp 32 or 64bit? Which SrvPack? What ASCOM platform & drivers? What control programs?


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turtledude1
member
*****

Reged: 10/08/08

Loc: SW Fla.& SW. NM
Re: Guided images new [Re: dksolar3294]
      #5652827 - 01/30/13 05:28 PM

Years ago I came up with the perfect fix for fishing reels that kept screwing up no matter what I tried. It may work here also. To fix it I would take the reel off my rod place the reel under my left rear tire and pull forward slowly. The fix works every time and I soon forgot about all my reel problems.

Russ


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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: Guided images new [Re: dksolar3294]
      #5652838 - 01/30/13 05:35 PM

Gday DkSolar

Do you actually have one of the new 909 guider lumps???
How are you set up ( polar or AltAz )??
What Firmware rev are you using??
Have you done drive training, and if so, what sort of
numbers have you got?
The current pulseguide code has some "interesting" results
and depends on how you are set up ( Polar or AltAz, PEC On or Off ),
what order you send commands ( ie calibrating DEC before RA may not work )
and in some cases, how long between commands.

That said, testing the latest firmware with an old 909 guider
shows the "motors" do go the correct directions when asserted,
but they dont always stay where they stopped, they can drift back.
It's orrible.

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia


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dksolar3294
member


Reged: 08/22/12

Re: Guided images new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5654652 - 01/31/13 04:39 PM Attachment (19 downloads)

Russ: most funny!! I'm too far into this - now it's a mind challenge!!

Andrew: I've seen some of your other post on Yahoo Grp ASCOM. You've given me a good idea to try. I read the APM#909 is for the LX90. For the LX80, it's the APM#07509 - attached. When I first tried it in Nov & did not get it work, I ordered a second one. The idea being in case the original was defective, I would have a comparison. A month later, I was informed the part was on back-order. It still is. I'm guessing there aren't $5 worth of parts in it & would take only a few minutes to assemble in mass. Two months on back-order - very suspicious.

I've got a 497EP with A3S4, in Polar mode, with PEC off. Meade support told me the problem could be due to backlash and to train the drive. Using the training procedure described on p.48&57, I saw no improvements. Now that I'm starting to catch on, I see there is also the PEC training described on p.64. I assume this is what you mean (& Meade). No, I have not done that yet, so I have no numbers to report. I assume the procedure gives some kind of feedback, i.e. numbers?

For others still learning the LX80, there are two (2) training procedures. In the 497 hand controller menu, under Setup/Telescope, there are Train Drive (p.48,57) and Smart Drive (p.64). Do both procedures.

I will try training gain & report back in a few days.

Don


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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: Guided images new [Re: dksolar3294]
      #5654744 - 01/31/13 05:30 PM

Gday Don

Quote:

I read the APM#909 is for the LX90. For the LX80, it's the APM#07509 - attached.




Incorrectamundo
The code in the handbox really hasnt changed comms wise, and i know A3S4 will happily talk with the OLD APM909 modules, ( which were discontinued ). Therefore, the assumption is this new beastie MUST work the same way ( but i have never got my hands on a unit to test its comms )
Ie The old APM909 modules should work on any scope via A3S4
and the new 909 guide only should also work on old 497 Hbxs on any scope.

Quote:

I'm guessing there aren't $5 worth of parts in it




At a minimum, there is a PIC microprocessor, as the lump talks to the Hbx using Meades proprietary I2C comms on the Aux bus.

Quote:

I've got a 497EP with A3S4, in Polar mode, with PEC off.




Do a Factory reset of your PEC and then turn PEC ON and retry.
The whole drive/tracking system can change the way it operates based on this.

Quote:

Meade support told me the problem could be due to backlash and to train the drive.




Quite possible for DEC, but not RA.
In RA, the drive will not reverse, but asserting the E/W pins should make the drive slow down or speed up.
In DEC, you need to hold the assertion long enough for the backlash to be accounted for.
Guiding works at 10 arcsec per sec so if you had say 150 arcsec of lash in DEC, it would take 15 seconds of assertion for the drive to reverse.
What you could do testing wise is set the DEC percentage to 100 and then do a DEC train.
You should see a result them.

Quote:

I assume the procedure gives some kind of feedback, i.e. numbers?



If you do a drive train, in normal means you cannot see the results.
If you load our patches, that allows inspection of a lot of data and hence you can dynamically read the data. Unpatched, you can still use my PEC editor to read the data, but it requires going into download mode to do it.

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia


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dksolar3294
member


Reged: 08/22/12

Re: Guided images new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5656907 - 02/01/13 06:23 PM

Thanks mate, That's a pretty good list you gave me. I'll need a few days (or week) to experiment some more. It's winter up here, so I work on it when time permits. I'll report back.

Don, TX


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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: Guided images new [Re: dksolar3294]
      #5657765 - 02/02/13 09:27 AM

I thought train drive was for backlash and smartdrive is for pec.

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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: Guided images new [Re: Stew57]
      #5658390 - 02/02/13 03:47 PM

Gday Stewart

Quote:

I thought train drive was for backlash and smartdrive is for pec.




It is.

However, the way the latest code ( A3S4 ) is written, the status of the PEC setting can control how the steady state tracking works when polar,
and also how pulse guiding works in certain circumstances.

The drive training value ( in conjunction with the DEC percentage ) will affect how long it takes to see a reversal when using ST4 commands in DEC.

As such, both are possible causes in what is being seen ( or not ).

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia


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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: Guided images new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5658643 - 02/02/13 06:11 PM

Thanks makes sense. Explains what I am seeing on my lowly ETX80 guiding. Never have been able to get a real improvement out of smart drive (pec) with it, probably due to the gears. Now back to on topic. Has anyone found a source for new worms for the LX80? Are the gear ratios still adjustable in the LX80 HC?

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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: Guided images [Re: Stew57]
      #5658922 - 02/02/13 09:01 PM

Gday Stew

As to new worms etc, you would need a new worm and wormwheel,
so not a simple exercise.
That said, the PEC side of things would require a new ( or better quality ) set of gears in the geartrain, as from the data posted by most people, the biggest PE appears to come from the geartrain, not the worm.
For visual, low load AltAz or Polar, the current design should work quite well and point/track just as good as any other Meade scopes. Its just under heavier loading that things might go astray.
As to ratios, yes, anything can be set in the Hbx or patches, so in theory, different motors etc could be tried, but i dont think it would be a cost effective operation.

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia


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