MaestroMyth
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Reged: 02/16/06
Loc: CT
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Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
#5302444 - 07/04/12 03:15 PM
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Hi all,
Trying to sift through a bunch of material that I'm completely unfamiliar with, so bear with me!
I'm looking for a cheap binoviewer (WO, Maxbright, etc.) that I can use on my SCT. Not a problem, from what I've read.
However, I want to use that same binoviewer for my 12 inch dob. I see Maxbright makes one for reflectors, but I'm guessing that won't work on my SCT. Also, it's two inches, adding more confusion. Most of my eyepieces are 1.25 inches.
http://www.alpineastro.com/Binoviewers/binoviewers.htm
Is there a solution? Maybe a binoviewer, then some OCA's or barlows in combo to work with the dob? The solution to move my mirror 'up' won't work for me because I will break it, most likely.
Thanks in advance!
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Don Trinko
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/05/09
Loc: Ohio
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: MaestroMyth]
#5302707 - 07/04/12 06:09 PM
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Bino viewers work with most SCT's, ( no problem with my Celestron C6 SCT)Most of the time with Reflectors using a barlow, (works on my Orion 4.5" with a 2x barlow)and seldom with refractors without special "barlows"( does not even come close on my Genesis with barlows of all sorts). all IMO; Don T.
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mgwhittle
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 08/24/11
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: Don Trinko]
#5302719 - 07/04/12 06:16 PM
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Regarding the Maxbright, it works on both. All you need to do is attach the newtonian compensator when you want to use it with your newtonian. Remove the newtonian compensator and it will work with your SCT.
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MaestroMyth
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Reged: 02/16/06
Loc: CT
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: mgwhittle]
#5302762 - 07/04/12 06:50 PM
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excellent, thanks guys! i don't know why i've been over-thinking this.
mcwhittle-- i'm still confused about the '2 inch' designation of that newtonian binoviewer. is that just the 'focuser' end of the binoviewer, while the eyepiece end is 1.25 inch??
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mgwhittle
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 08/24/11
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: MaestroMyth]
#5302770 - 07/04/12 06:56 PM
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excellent, thanks guys! i don't know why i've been over-thinking this.
mcwhittle-- i'm still confused about the '2 inch' designation of that newtonian binoviewer. is that just the 'focuser' end of the binoviewer, while the eyepiece end is 1.25 inch??
Yes, the Maxbright can only take 1.25 inch eyepieces, but the newtonian corrector (which also corrects for coma) has a 2 inch nosepiece, so it fits in a 2 inch focuser.
Let me make sure about being clear here, Baader doesn't' make a binoviewer specifically for newtonians (or SCTS or refractors for that matter). You buy the binoviwer body THEN you attach different correctors, nosepieces and/or diagonals onto the binoviewer body to make it work for your particular application.
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MaestroMyth
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Reged: 02/16/06
Loc: CT
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: mgwhittle]
#5302810 - 07/04/12 07:31 PM
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okay, great! that's fine. I have 2 inch capability on both scopes, but i will use 1.25 eyepieces in the viewer.
thanks again, and happy fourth.
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MaestroMyth
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Reged: 02/16/06
Loc: CT
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: MaestroMyth]
#5304768 - 07/06/12 01:59 AM
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update**
having a hard time finding these binoviewers and extenders for sale. anybody have success with the Williams Optics version?
how about extenders for that model?
thanks in advance.
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DaveJ
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Reged: 01/07/05
Loc: NE Ohio
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: MaestroMyth]
#5304963 - 07/06/12 07:57 AM
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update** having a hard time finding these binoviewers and extenders for sale...
Here you go, from Alpine
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REC
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 10/20/10
Loc: NC
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: DaveJ]
#5305061 - 07/06/12 09:32 AM
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I have the WO bino for my 8"SCT and the moon and planets look great in them. They do extend the focal length a little, so my f/2000 behaves like a f/2300. The included 20mm wide angle EP's are pretty decent. Good investment for $200 and gets you into binoviewing.
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MaestroMyth
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Reged: 02/16/06
Loc: CT
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: REC]
#5305102 - 07/06/12 10:06 AM
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thanks, dave. alpine has the bino's but they're listed as 'out of stock.'
rec, thanks for the encouraging words on the WO. i've heard good things. i didn't want to get two separate viewers for my dob and SCT, and the maxbright seemed like a good solution -- still trying to figure out what extenders people use for the WO on a 12 inch dob, if any.
thanks again, everybody.
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Epsilon_Lyrae
member
   
Reged: 07/27/11
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: MaestroMyth]
#5305288 - 07/06/12 12:09 PM
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You can get an OCA from Siebert Optics.
http://www.siebertoptics.com/SiebertOptics-OCA.html
I believe that models 1a (single mag - 1.25x) and 1b (multi-mag - 1.25x, 2x, 3.5x) work with dobs, but you might want to call to be sure.
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DaveJ
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 01/07/05
Loc: NE Ohio
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: Epsilon_Lyrae]
#5305828 - 07/06/12 06:02 PM
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You can get an OCA from Siebert Optics. http://www.siebertoptics.com/SiebertOptics-OCA.html. I believe that models 1a (single mag - 1.25x) and 1b (multi-mag - 1.25x, 2x, 3.5x) work with dobs, but you might want to call to be sure.
If you call, be prepared for a 30 to 45 minute conversation. Strike that. Be prepared to listen to Harry (Siebert) talk for 30 to 45 minutes.
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MaestroMyth
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Reged: 02/16/06
Loc: CT
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: DaveJ]
#5306228 - 07/07/12 12:43 AM
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just found that anacortes is selling the maxbright. could someone be kind enough to check out this page and determine if it's alright to use with a 12 inch dob?
my confusion stems from the fact that they make a 2 inch newtonian corrector, which sells for $268, in addition to the binoviewer. and this system, linked below, which they also claim works with a newtonian is $368 total. why make two systems at different cost that do the same thing?? i know i'm missing something, just not sure what...
thanks, all.
http://www.buytelescopes.com/Products/15670-baader-planetarium-baader-maxbright-binoviewer-1-w-125x-glasspath-compensator.aspx
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mgwhittle
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 08/24/11
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: MaestroMyth]
#5306307 - 07/07/12 03:26 AM
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just found that anacortes is selling the maxbright. could someone be kind enough to check out this page and determine if it's alright to use with a 12 inch dob?
my confusion stems from the fact that they make a 2 inch newtonian corrector, which sells for $268, in addition to the binoviewer. and this system, linked below, which they also claim works with a newtonian is $368 total. why make two systems at different cost that do the same thing?? i know i'm missing something, just not sure what...
thanks, all.
http://www.buytelescopes.com/Products/15670-baader-planetarium-baader-maxbright-binoviewer-1-w-125x-glasspath-compensator.aspx
Okay, so.....the one you have linked is the binoviwer with your choice of glasspath compensator (1.25, 1.7 or 2.6) with your choice of either a 1.25 or 2 inch nosepiece. I dont see where they make the claim that this combination works with a newtonian, but I do see they mention you can purchase the base binoviwer and the newtonian compensator, but this is not that combination.
So....if you are going with the Maxbright and are tyring to do this for the least possible money, they you should get the base binoviwer:
http://www.buytelescopes.com/Products/15669-baader-planetarium-maxbright-binoviewer-base-no-nosepiece-or-compensator.aspx
and then the newtonian compensator:
http://www.buytelescopes.com/Products/15666-Baader-Planetarium-2-newtonian-17x-coma-correcting-glasspath-compensator.aspx
and then either a 1.25 or 2 inch nosepiece for when you want to attach the Maxbrights (without the newtonian compensator) to your SCT :
http://www.buytelescopes.com/Products/15667-baader-planetarium-baader-t2-precision-nose-piece-1.aspx
or:
http://www.buytelescopes.com/Products/15668-baader-planetarium-baader-t2-precision-nose-piece-2.aspx .
Now that will get you there for the minimum of cost. But, you should consider getting the 1.25 compensator for when you want to use the Maxbright with your SCT because it actually corrects abberations that the prisms of the Maxbright induce. And if you buy the Maxbright with an included compensator and nosepiece (either 1.25 or 2 inch) it's a bit cheaper as a package deal. And if you can swing it, you could also get a Baader prism diagonal that uses the T-2 attachment that you can mount your Maxbright to and get the shortest lightpath from the back of your SCT to your eyepieces so you can retain the maximum aperture of your SCT when using the Maxbright. I dont see the one I would recommend at Anacortes but Alpine Astro carries it. But if you want to save a little money, using a prism attached directly to the Maxbright is not necessary for an SCT, you can just use the 1.25 or 2 inch nose piece and put that in your SCT's diagonal like you would a normal eyepiece.
Now for the bad news. You should give Anacortes a call and see if they actually physically have all of this in stock. I say this because last week I purchased a Maxbright package and it was tough to find all the components in stock at any one dealer. I did it, but from what I understand, it will be September before Maxbrights and compensators will be back in stock at dealers if those dealers don't have them on the shelves now. Also, Anacortes is fine to deal with, but I also recommend Alpine Astro. That is where I ended up buying from and they were able to answer all my questions and put together a package that works with both my SCT and refractors.
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MaestroMyth
sage
   
Reged: 02/16/06
Loc: CT
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: mgwhittle]
#5306538 - 07/07/12 10:32 AM
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thanks for sharing your experience with me, mcwhittle. glad i'm not the only one with questions on this topic! i really appreciate the thorough response.
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MaestroMyth
sage
   
Reged: 02/16/06
Loc: CT
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: MaestroMyth]
#5309966 - 07/09/12 02:57 PM
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found another one. denkmeier standard, which claims:
"There is no need to worry about achieving focus in your Refractor, Newtonian or SCT. This is because The Big Easy includes a Denkmeier OCS."
all in one for $549. is this a possible solution? the maxbright prices were adding up with all the add-ons. and, if so, is the standard Denkmeier a good binoviewer?
thanks again.
http://www.buytelescopes.com/Products/9593-denkmeier-optical-the-big-easy-package.aspx
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Eddgie
Postmaster
   
Reged: 02/01/06
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: MaestroMyth]
#5310003 - 07/09/12 03:27 PM
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I used the Denkmeier Supersystem on both my C14 and my EdgeHD 8" and my belief is that when used with a 2" diagonal, the total back focus causes either of these scopes to loose effective aperture.
I felt that with this system in place, my C14 seemed to be working more like a C11 in terms of brigtness.
With some SCTs, once you go past about 200mm of back focus, the system can start to loose effective aperture.
The Denkmeier Supersystem with the power switch in place adds about 130mm of back focus. With a 2" diagonal and a 2" visual back, the total back focus is well over 200mm.
If you take off the powerswitch (which did not work well with the C14 or C8, giving an even dimmer image when used in the low power mode), and use just the bino head in a 1.25" diagonal, I think you will get a brighter image.
So, consider using the Denkmeier with a 1.25" nose piece in your SCT.
You may not have any problems using it in a Newtonian with a 2" nose peice, but this unit I think may cause aperture loss in a complete configuration with a 2" diagonal.
But I would not use the powerswitch even in a 1.25" configuration. The low power arm in most SCTs will result in a reduced aperture.
The C11 may be fine with both the 2" diagonal, but my guess is that it will still loose apeture with the low power arm of the powerswitch.
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MaestroMyth
sage
   
Reged: 02/16/06
Loc: CT
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: Eddgie]
#5310046 - 07/09/12 03:51 PM
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interesting, eddgie. thanks.
just looking at this offer again, i believe they've eliminated the power switch altogether in this package.
http://www.buytelescopes.com/Products/9593-denkmeier-optical-the-big-easy-package.aspx
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Eddgie
Postmaster
   
Reged: 02/01/06
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: MaestroMyth]
#5310509 - 07/09/12 09:18 PM
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I like the Denkmeier itself. used in a 1.25" configuration in you SCT behind a 1.25" diagonal, you should keep full aperture.
Trouble is, I don't think this particular system is sold by Denkmeier anymore.
But perhaps Anacortes still has it is stock.
Last time I looked, Denkmeier sells either the complete Supersystem, or Ala Carte on the Binoviewer, OCS, and 1.25" nose (though you may want a 2" nose for use in your dob).
I expressed my frustration on buying binoviewers on this forum this past Christmas. It is a horribly complex environment. The promise is that one Binoviwer system can work with everything, and while that may be true, that doesn't mean it will work particularly well with every type.
Again, I really like the Denk bino itself. It just did not work in the Supersystem configuration behind a 2" diagonal with my SCT all that well. I think in a 1.25" configuration though, it would be an excellent choice for most SCTs.
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MaestroMyth
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Reged: 02/16/06
Loc: CT
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Re: Binoviewer for SCT and Dob??
[Re: Eddgie]
#5310639 - 07/09/12 10:59 PM
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eddgie, your post made me laugh. i have limited understanding of mechanics, and i am probably one of the least 'scientific-minded' posters on the forum. my interest in the heavens are almost exclusively aesthetic/philosophical.
that said, i consider myself adept enough to at least UNDERSTAND basic concepts in this wonderful hobby of ours.
but the binoviewing world has me bewildered. i'm not ashamed to admit i was completely confused in my search. my criteria are pretty simple. i want a binoviewer to use in my dob and my SCT. didn't think it would be this hard!
oh well, i'm not one to be deterred. i'll end up buying one at some point...
next thing i have to figure out is which set of eyepieces to go with the binoviewer i choose. that promises to be a doozy.
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