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jmoore
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 1959
Loc: Beaufort, NC
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The last two nights have been clear (not cloudy), but with pretty poor seeing. not planetary nights. so, i spent my time looking for some DSOs.
Unfortunately, I had 4 factors working against me for deep-sky observation:
(1) bright moon,
(2) sub-urban, light-polluted setting,
(3) snow-covered ground that amplified the effects of 1 and 2,
(4) an 80mm scope...not the best for faint fuzzies (I have bigger scopes, but didn't feel like lugging out to my backyard).
Because of issues 1 to 3, I estimated skies were only about mag +3.5.
Nevertheless, I figured I could still have an enjoyable evening. I can be easily satisfied sometimes. But man, I couldn't see ANYTHING. Not much cloud formation to see in M42. Could barely find M36, 37, 38. Tried to find the Leo triplet, but failed. Tried to find M81 in Ursa Major, but failed.  I KNOW in these latter cases that they were in my FOV. I had 3 degrees to work with, and was exactly where the star charts told me go. I just couldn't see them.
I have a question for you suburban backyard DSO-observers. What do you look at? What makes for a satisfying tour this time of year when the skies aren't dark? 
Wondering if I should get a backyard Dob. The 80mm is great for travel, portability, and other convenience, but doesn't bring in the faint stuff. The 5" Mak is awesome on planets, but FOV is so narrow for finding things. The 8" Newt is too cumbersome to setup 4 nights/week. But a 4-6" Dob...that could be the perfect grab-n-go backyard DSO scope, eh?
thanks,
jeff
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Hardin 12"
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Jacques
sage
Reged: 08/11/02
Posts: 372
Loc: Belgium
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Hi Jeff,
There's nothing to worry about, the moon washes almost everything out. I don't even think about hunting for fuzzies with such a headlight in the sky (no offense to the moon tho). With a (nearly) full moon, I limit myself to the moon and planets, even OC's are far from spectacular, not to mention the rest. If you can cool a dob or newton before going out, it can be a perfect grab 'n go-er indeed. Otherwise you're stuck with cool down issues. Cooled down at last, clouds roll in, duh! It happens. Try again on a moonless night, and you'll be in for a treat even with your 80 (dunno how severe your light pollution is). There's plenty to look at with a 6" dob I'm sure. If you can observe early enough in the evening, you'll beat the moon before it sets nowadays. Keep us posted 
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Sky-Watcher 102/1000 achromat
Celestron 150/1200 achromat
Orion XT10i (250/1200 dob)
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Craig Simmons
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 1502
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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I keep my XT10 on my somewhat unheated back porch. I built a weather resistant cart and mount for it, so I just haul out the tube and EPs to the patio and I'm ready to go. But even the XT10 has a hard time with the moonlight, but alot better at pulling in fainter stuff than my smaller AT1010.
Craig Simmons
Falls Church, VA
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Craig Simmons
Oberwerk 8x56, 20x90
Nikon Action IV 10x50
Barska 15x70
Galileo 20x60
Stellarvue 15x63, 20x85
Orion XT10 pre-Classic
Antares 10
Stellarvue AT1010
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29817
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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Jeff, get a 5" refractor around f6/-f/8 for quick DSO looks. What is your 8" newt on right now? double up with an Orion 5"(ish) refractor that is fairly fast...the 127mm Mak for planets and the 127mm refractor for DSOs in a hurry! Put that mount to use!!!
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Tom 
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I hear ya, the snow, clouds, and winds can make what should be an enjoyable evening somewhat crappy! 
Over the last 2 weeks I have only had ONE night that it was worth setting up my SV 80/9 D. I chose the Orion Nebula since it is in a good spot directly out my rear garage door. I suffered the same issues as you. I could make out a little shape, but not much else. Seeing was atrocious and that's the LAST thing my 80mm scope needs! A giant dob would have sucked even more!
To be honest, as hard as it is, I have given up "jumping through hoops" trying to make a good viewing night out of a hopelessly crappy night.
Just wait for those good nights!
Mike 
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jmoore
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 1959
Loc: Beaufort, NC
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Hey Tom,
I guess we're splitting this conversation between two threads, huh?
As I just mentioned in the reflectors forum, I'm thinking of 6" f5 Discovery Dob for DSO quick looks. Compared to the refractor you mentioned, the Dob would have FOV as wide or wider, a little more aperture, more convenient to use, and A LOT less expensive. Seems perfect to me.
So, 80mm for travel, 5" Mak for backyard planets, 6" Dob for backyard DSOs, and 8 or 10" Newt for "doing-it-all" during a long session in the country.
Incidentally, Tom, there's no way I could justify a 5" refractor when I've already got an 8" Newt. These two scopes would be equally large (in terms of size/weight), so they'd be in the same class in terms of portability and time-to-setup. In that case, why would I set up a 5" scope when I could set up the 8" scope in the same amount of time (and in the same conditions)? Also, if I was going to get a 5" refractor, I'd want it to be slow (long f-ratio), so that it would also be good on planets, but I've already got the Mak for that (which is much more portable)! So, the 5" refractor just seems too redundant.
Don't worry, Tom. My 8" mount gets plenty of use. Believe it or not, I put my 80mm refractor on it! A little overkill, but hey...it's damn sturdy. And I use the Newt plenty, too, but not this time of year. It's just too cold to commit to a long evening of observation, so I've been using the 80mm a lot, and now the 5" Mak. I'd use a 6" Dob a lot, too, I think. Then, when spring/summer rolls around, I'll make my once- or twice-weekly trip to a dark site out of town and use the 8" Newt (10" one day).
Man, I'm so long winded. Sorry....
jeff
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Hardin 12"
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jmoore
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 1959
Loc: Beaufort, NC
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Quote:
To be honest, as hard as it is, I have given up "jumping through hoops" trying to make a good viewing night out of a hopelessly crappy night.
Just wait for those good nights!
Good advice...I guess I'm too green to have gained that wisdom yet. Even though I know the universe "will always be there", I'm still impatient.
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Hardin 12"
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Good advice...I guess I'm too green to have gained that wisdom yet. Even though I know the universe "will always be there", I'm still impatient.
It has nothing to do with wisdom... I don't have much of that! 
It's more that I've been burned several times by "thinking" that seeing will be better than it looks, the clouds will pass by, etc, etc. In other words..."wishful thinking".
Besides, us 80mm owners need th best seeing we can get for the best scope performance and when I have tried viewing on crappy nights, I suddenly get "aperture fever" when in reality the larger scope would potentially be even worse!
Hang in there... we'll get 'em! 
Mike
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Darren
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/17/03
Posts: 885
Loc: 44N, 79W (Newmarket, Ont., Can...
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I'm with Mike ... other than the odd occasion when it's dark and all my neighbours have turned their porch lights off ... I just don't bother much any more. The few clear nights we get around here, the seeing is generally awful.
And Jeff, "suburban backyard DSO-observers" is an oxymoron. From my suburban backyard, you can't hardly SEE any DSO's! 
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Clear nights ... dark sites,
Darren
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jmoore
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 1959
Loc: Beaufort, NC
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Quote:
And Jeff, "suburban backyard DSO-observers" is an oxymoron. From my suburban backyard, you can't hardly SEE any DSO's!
apparently not! guess i'll just stick with moon, planets, and M42 when I don't get into the country. A real bummer, you know...I figured there'd be a FEW cool things out there to grab from your backyard (besides the really conspicuous handful of open clusters). HEY....DOUBLE STARS!
cheers everybody,
jeff
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Hardin 12"
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DenisY
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/10/04
Posts: 2048
Loc: Canada / Montréal
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Yep, double stars may be the ticket out!
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Denis
I wonder how would the world be different if
Einstein had never lived?
Visit my web site at...
My Astronomical Logbook
Check out
My Astronomical Gear
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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A few years ago I spent an evening with a list of carbon stars - that was pretty cool, although it was June and many of them are better placed during the summer.
I've also spent time looking at other colored stars, esp. colored pairs where the differences are obvious. There are a couple really nice blue-gold pairs in Cygnus.
With my old 60mm I used to go asteroid observing, that's kind of cool and they don't look any different in bigger scopes :-)
Something like going for a lunar certificate from astro league might make spending a couple months with the moon a bit more interesting, I did that with my 70mm when I was burned out with comet hunting...
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