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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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RAKing
Postmaster

Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: Eric Gage]
#5362993 - 08/11/12 08:41 AM

Quote:

Meh. It's like putting a tachymeter on an electric toothbrush.

Agreed!

I saw the DD-thing at NEAF a few years ago when they introduced it. I know they are proud of their work, but I just couldn't go for it. I focus with my eye or the camera. A digital scale might get me close, but I wouldn't use it for fine focus anyway, so why bother.

I like my "old" WO FLT-110 and will just stay 'retro'.

EDIT - To get back on track - I also saw the original AT130 at NEAF a few years ago and was offered a chance to take it home. I wish I had taken Mike up on the offer, but I let someone else have it.

I hope they get them back on the market soon. It is a very nice scope and will be worth a short wait.

Cheers,

Ron

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mewmartigan
professor emeritus

Reged: 07/02/08

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: RAKing]
#5363010 - 08/11/12 09:06 AM

I just saw in the Vendor forum that Mike. B. said they expect a small batch of AT130s within 10 days (AT6RC post that I hijacked). I have had one on order for months and hope I get one of the small batch. If that puppy actually ships.....don't worry, I will let the forum know with a big ol' smile!

EDIT: Oh, and the I can provide my address for anyone that wants to send me an AP130 for comparison

Edited by mewmartigan (08/11/12 09:07 AM)

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: Eric Gage]
#5363091 - 08/11/12 10:15 AM

"but I am not a fan of the digital focal scale..."

Me either. I prefer the old WO focuser om that scope, or a Feathertouch better yet.

The digi-focuser has a couple of drawbacks. First, to do its job it takes batteries. The less power consumed in the field, the better. No power, no digital counter. Second, it looks like stink. It looks like someone slapped a cheap digital stop watch on top of the focuser. Third, it places yet-another-light-source directly in front of the visual observer. I dislike GOTO and push-to control boxes due to their excessive illumination and I hate the CPC's bright red LED on the power switch. Even dimmed red light affect dark adaptation. Putting any light source directly in the line of sight of the observer is bad juju.

Now sure, it's pitched as a boon to imagers, but the draw tube also has a graduated scale so an imager with a dimmable red light could use that instead. It would be nice if they offered a version with a non-DDG focuser and knocked off a couple hundred bucks, I think, or else offer a factory FT option for a couple hundred bucks more. That focuser likely has cost them more than a few sales.

I also believe that this scope may use the exact same optics as the TMB Signature Series 130. We know that Thomas wasn't the greatest at protecting his rights in his various designs, though he was a great and talented designer. Since his passing, his family has been somewhat aggressive at protecting his tradenames/trademarks. For example, LZOS no longer advertises that the various lenses they make were designed by TMB. WO doesn't come out and say that Thomas was the designer of the optic, but they have advertised that a famous or well-known designer designed the optical group.

The specs are close enough as to be within the realm of marketing-manufactured difference. The materials are so close as to be the same. My hunch is that whoever makes the TMB SS 130 optics for TMB is also selling the OGs to WO and perhaps others. So perhaps if the FLT-132 is being considered as an alternative to the AT130, the TMB SS 130 is a good alternative to the AT130, too, and it has a FT rather than the digi-readout focuser.

Regards,

Jim

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Scott in NC
Mad Hatter

Reged: 03/05/05

Loc: NC

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: jrbarnett]
#5363118 - 08/11/12 10:32 AM

Okay, Jim--so how do you really feel about the digital focuser?

Truth be known, I'm glad someone finally came out and said it, because I've always felt the same way. (Disclaimer: I've never actually used a digital focuser, so what do I know?)

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Rich V.
Post Laureate

Reged: 01/02/05

Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: jrbarnett]
#5363119 - 08/11/12 10:33 AM

Quote:

I also believe that this scope may use the exact same optics as the TMB Signature Series 130. We know that Thomas wasn't the greatest at protecting his rights in his various designs, though he was a great and talented designer.

Jim

Jim, while the AT130 is f6, the TMB 130 is f7; I don't think that can be considered "the exact same optics", do you?

They both may be sourced from Long Perng, though, like many WO products appear to be.

Rich

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: Rich V.]
#5363398 - 08/11/12 02:03 PM

Note, I was talking about the TMB SS and WO FLT-132 sharing optics.

Later in the paragraph you quoted from: "WO doesn't come out and say that Thomas was the designer of the optic, but they have advertised that a famous or well-known designer designed the optical group."

And also my conclusion - If you consider the FLT-132 to be an alternative to the AT130, then perhaps the TMB SS 130 should be considered an alternative to the AT130 as well.

I did not say, nor do I think that the AT130 shares optics with either the FLT-132 or the TMB SS 130.

I think this scope shares optics with the AT130:

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p3374_Triplet-APO-130mm-Oeffnung-f-6---Carbon-Tubus---3--Crayford.html

Regards,

Jim

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dscarpa
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 03/15/08

Loc: San Diego Ca.

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: Eric Gage]
#5363424 - 08/11/12 02:24 PM

I was under the impression that my WO ZS-110 had the same lens as the AT-111. Someone from Astronomics told me on this forum that's not the case and that Thomas Beck designed the At-111's just for them. David

Edited by dscarpa (08/11/12 02:49 PM)

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Rich V.
Post Laureate

Reged: 01/02/05

Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: jrbarnett]
#5363469 - 08/11/12 03:00 PM

Sorry I misunderstood the context of your statement, Jim.

Yes, I can see that the difference between a claimed 910mm FL and 925mm is within industry standards of ~2% or so. Too bad the sources of these optics are shrouded in so much mystery...all one can do is make assumptions in lieu of the facts.

At least the TMB comes with a proper FT3545 R&P; the new price reflects that, though. It also seems to be on long standing back-order like the AT130. I purchased mine used at a good price from another CN'er and find it to be a nice performing mid-sized refractor that's still within my expectations for a relatively easy grunt-n-go alt/az setup.

Rich

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Brian L
professor emeritus

Reged: 11/17/08

Loc: The garden paradise of Pittsbu...

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: Rich V.]
#5363502 - 08/11/12 03:30 PM

if you are looking for a comparably sized and priced scope to the AT130, there aren't many choices. TOA130 is top shelf but priced comparably to the AP130. Of the scopes already mentioned, TMB130 SS has the edge with a FEathertouch focuser. Best choice is probably the one that comes up first for sale on the used market at a good price.

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Brian L
professor emeritus

Reged: 11/17/08

Loc: The garden paradise of Pittsbu...

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: jrbarnett]
#5363520 - 08/11/12 03:38 PM

Quote:

I think this scope shares optics with the AT130:

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p3374_Triplet-APO-130mm-Oeffnung-f-6---Carbon-Tubus---3--Crayford.html

Regards,

Jim

3300 Euro = 4055 dollars plus shipping. Price includes 19% VAT. Maybe non EU customers can get it back or not pay it? I'd wait for the AT130 if nothing else surfaces on the used market. I have seen used TOA130s sell for less.

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Brian L
professor emeritus

Reged: 11/17/08

Loc: The garden paradise of Pittsbu...

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: Brian L]
#5363532 - 08/11/12 03:48 PM

Just FYI, there is an Aries 127 fluorite f/6.9 for sale on AM. This was WOs premium offering before they put out the TEC objectives in 110 mm. This is the same company that makes RC optics For RCOS. There are only a few of these scopes in circulation and I know where one of them is. I have heard that they are superb optics.

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Bill Barlow
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 12/03/07

Loc: Overland Park KS

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: mewmartigan]
#5363586 - 08/11/12 04:38 PM

I am also interested in the AT 130 refactor and emailed Astronomics recently asking when they might become available. They replied that they have a new lens supplier and not sure when they will be done. No word on who the new lens supplier is.

Bill

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA

Re: AT130 alternatives [Re: Rich V.]
#5363587 - 08/11/12 04:38 PM

Although the new price of the TMB SS 130 ($3999) and the new price of the FLT-132 ($3992) are within $7 of one another, and the FLT doesn't come with a FT.

You're also right about the back-order situation. Neither the TMB SS nor the AT130 are readily available, new, these days. It's easier to get the FLT-132.

Regards,

Jim

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Rich V.
Post Laureate

Reged: 01/02/05

Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: jrbarnett]
#5363661 - 08/11/12 05:42 PM

The TMB doesn't include the $130. rings that are included with the WO so it works out to $137. more. Well worth it, IMO, for the proven FT focuser. I'd take the FT over the DDG focuser any day as well. I didn't realize the prices were so close....

Note the rings on both, aside from "TMB" rather than the "swan" markings, are identical in construction to Long Perng rings. Other mechanical aspects look similar as well. This makes me think at least the mechanicals are sourced from Long Perng Co. who has CNC production facilities in both Taipei and Chung-li, Taiwan. TMB/Astronomics claim Taiwan production for the SS and WO is based in Taipei, Taiwan as well.

Rich

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RAKing
Postmaster

Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: Rich V.]
#5363763 - 08/11/12 06:48 PM

Quote:

At least the TMB comes with a proper FT3545 R&P; the new price reflects that, though. It also seems to be on long standing back-order like the AT130. I purchased mine used at a good price from another CN'er and find it to be a nice performing mid-sized refractor that's still within my expectations for a relatively easy grunt-n-go alt/az setup.

Rich

I agree. I started with a TMB 130, then fell in love with Tak (FS-128 and TOA 130). When my back failed, I had to let the TOA go and was able to go back to a nice TMB for a lot less than I made on the TOA. I cannot tell any difference through the eyepiece, but my back feels better and the CFO is happy, too.

Cheers,

Ron

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Rat
professor emeritus

Reged: 10/13/06

Loc: USA

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: RAKing]
#5365709 - 08/13/12 12:05 AM Attachment (14 downloads)

Here is my AT130 with the C5 as reference. I'm embarrassed to say I've only used it once for a few minutes just to check the optics.

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5M17H
member

Reged: 06/20/11

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: Rat]
#5365714 - 08/13/12 12:10 AM

Very nice. Any issues with the hood slipping?

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Rat
professor emeritus

Reged: 10/13/06

Loc: USA

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: 5M17H]
#5365724 - 08/13/12 12:16 AM

Quote:

Very nice. Any issues with the hood slipping?

Actually when I bought the scope from our host, the hood was so tight that I had to sent it back for a fix. It seems fine now.

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5M17H
member

Reged: 06/20/11

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: Rat]
#5365728 - 08/13/12 12:18 AM

I've been seriously considering buying one for a while (if they ever get in stock). The Feather touch on the TMB might be a better bet for me but those are never in stock either.

Edited by 5M17H (08/13/12 12:21 AM)

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drollere
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 02/02/10

Loc: sebastopol, california

Re: AT130 alternatives new

new

[Re: 5M17H]
#5366697 - 08/13/12 03:33 PM

consider skywatcher. the prices seem reasonable and the optical reviews have been uniformly very positive.

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