Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home page


Speciality Forums >> Astro Art, Books, Websites & Other Media

Pages: 1
core
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 02/23/08

Loc: Mostly in Norman, OK
Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print?
      #5380387 - 08/22/12 02:47 AM

With the crazy prices the MSA is commanding these days, I was wondering if anybody has the complete 17 volume set? Yes, you read that right - 17 volumes

Vol 1: Introduction and Guide to the Data
Vol 2: The Hipparcos Satellite Operations
Vol 3: Construction of the Hipparcos Catalogue
Vol 4: Construction of the Tycho Catalogue
Vol 5: The Hipparcos catalogue -- RA: 0h-4h, HIP: 1-18677
Vol 6: The Hipparcos catalogue -- RA: 4h-9h, HIP: 18601-44180
Vol 7: The Hipparcos Catalogue -- RA: 9h-14h, HIP: 44101-68389
Vol 8: The Hipparcos Catalogue -- RA: 14h-19h, HIP: 68301-93276
Vol 9: The Hipparcos catalogue -- RA: 19h-24h, HIP: 93201-118322
Vol 10: Double and Multiple Systems Annex + Solar System Objects
Vol 11: Hipparcos Variability Annex
Vol 12: Hipparcos Light Curves
Vol 13: Identification Charts
Vols 14-16: Sky & Telescope's Millennium Star Atlas
Vol 17: 6 ASCII CD-ROMs

I was rummaging thru my old archived emails and realized that back around 1998, I had contacted ESA directly and somehow didn't pull the trigger on the set - it was US$400 plus freight. Yes, I'd have little use for the raw data set printed out, but it would have just looked outstanding and completely nerdy displayed across the bookcase imo just the shear presence of the data set printed into physical books gives us a sense of the immensity of the information gathered.

Just like there's the feeling that the "Great Atlas" would be the last of the large printed atlases, I belive the printed Hipparcos catalog is the last printed stellar data catalog.

fwiw you can now download the first 11 volumes (FREE) courtesy of ESA .


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Traveler
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/19/07

Loc: The Netherlands
Re: Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print? new [Re: core]
      #5380396 - 08/22/12 02:58 AM

Hi Peter,

I have the same feeling as you i guess: digital information is alright but printed information is makes you feel you actually "own" the data...But 17 volumes, wow!

Did you think about a way of binding the prints?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tony Flanders
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print? new [Re: core]
      #5380543 - 08/22/12 06:30 AM

Quote:

With the crazy prices the MSA is commanding these days, I was wondering if anybody has the complete 17 volume set?




We have a set in the office. I actually reference the Light Curves volume fairly often.

Tony Flanders
Associate Editor, Sky & Telescope


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dave Ittner
sage
*****

Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: SF Bay Area, California
Re: Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print? new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5381107 - 08/22/12 01:40 PM

Is the MSA available digitally?
per
Vols 14-16: Sky & Telescope's Millennium Star Atlas
from the link above.

How much do they charge for the set?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dave Ittner
sage
*****

Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: SF Bay Area, California
Re: Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print? new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5381291 - 08/22/12 03:33 PM

Nevermind, I didn't read that page correctly and was probably wishful thinking on my part (to have MSA available digitally).

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
core
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 02/23/08

Loc: Mostly in Norman, OK
Re: Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print? new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5382394 - 08/23/12 09:47 AM

Traveler,
No intention of "printing" a copy at the moment, but if I ever do I'll send it to a shop that will do printing, hardcover binding, and lettering

Tony/Dave,
I'd have guess S&T office would have a set - just our luck the one you reference most isn't available at ESA's website. Perhaps sometime in the future y'all (S&T) may offer the MSA as a PDF purchase - that would be fantastic!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tony Flanders
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print? new [Re: core]
      #5382445 - 08/23/12 10:18 AM

Quote:

Perhaps sometime in the future y'all (S&T) may offer the MSA as a PDF purchase - that would be fantastic!




It has been discussed. It would be relatively easy to do, though even the simplest process isn't exactly easy when applied to 1500 pages.

I have my doubts how big the market would be, however. This would be competing head-on with planetarium software. And while automatically generated charts can never come close to hand-finished ones in terms of aesthetics and readability, they have the virtue of infinite scalability and much greater depth.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print? new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5382982 - 08/23/12 03:04 PM

It may be best to just consider the MSA as a peak of one sort, and let it slide into history as it is, without trying to update it or force it to compete with newer, more flexible offerings.
The old 3-volume Becvar atlas is the same sort of thing. The biggest and best, and still a masterpiece; but shoved aside by later, more agile entries.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dave Ittner
sage
*****

Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: SF Bay Area, California
Re: Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print? new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5388341 - 08/26/12 05:25 PM

Quote:


It has been discussed. It would be relatively easy to do, though even the simplest process isn't exactly easy when applied to 1500 pages.





Out of curiosity, what would those steps entail?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tony Flanders
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print? new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5390411 - 08/27/12 08:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:


It has been discussed. It would be relatively easy to do, though even the simplest process isn't exactly easy when applied to 1500 pages.





Out of curiosity, what would those steps entail?




I don't really know; I'm not the expert on the subject. At the very least, converting each page to a PDF, which is mechanical but still time-consuming. Then you'd really need some kind of indexing, presumably hyperlinking the key maps to the detailed maps. And you would want to hyperlink the continuation tabs on the four edges.

With e-books, the more indexing the better. But it could get out of hand in a hurry.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dave Ittner
sage
*****

Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: SF Bay Area, California
Re: Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print? new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5390832 - 08/28/12 03:06 AM

Personally I could see doing it via scanning in each page and creating a PDF from the scanned image. A long time ago I did this with the Bright Star Atlas 2000 and it worked fine. (I also had drawn in pointers to Taki's Mag 8.5 charts so as to get a deeper view, long before I knew of the TriAtlas series).

Hyperlinking would be nice but for me I can work the charts fairly fast without them.

The key would be to have a decent index chart or series of charts so as to open up the correct chart to begin with.

For example, if you look at the index chart for the TriAtlas A series, it has nice big chart areas and you can pretty much guess where you need to start. So let's say you want to look in Ophiuchus, so you would open up chart A-11. The advantage here is that the A series charts (25), which are decent enough charts alone, have pointers to the B (107) and C (571) series charts.

Millennium Star Atlas has only one index chart though I believe so this may require a lot of zooming in - in order to select the proper chart. I have not seen it to determine how well it would work once scanned in.

Technically it can be done. There are plenty of commercial issues that would need to be addressed.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tony Flanders
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print? new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5390951 - 08/28/12 07:22 AM

Quote:

Personally I could see doing it via scanning in each page and creating a PDF from the scanned image.




That makes no sense at all if you have access to the original source files! A scanned PDF is a bit image -- inherently fuzzy and also prohibitively gigantic when you're talking about 1000+ pages.

A PDF produced from the original source files would be 100% vector. Much smaller than a bit image, and inherently sharp no matter how much you zoom in on it.

Besides, scanning is a lot more time-consuming than pumping up your publication software and selecting Export to PDF.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dave Ittner
sage
*****

Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: SF Bay Area, California
Re: Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print? new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5391228 - 08/28/12 11:05 AM

Well of course I would prefer creating a PDF from the original source files. When you have the original file it is easy to create a single PDF for each chart. I was under the impression you folks don't have the source file(s)- is that correct?

Hence the reason I explained how I was able to create PDFs from paper charts. As for creating a PDF from a scanned image - I don't see a significant loss of sharpness and it scales just fine (I don't believe the scanned data goes to create a jpeg or other image first). Maybe a function of my scanner and software then?

Yes, I would love for the MSA to be commercially available in digital format. I would buy this digital version in a heart beat. On a DVD with hyperlinked charts would be even more desirable but not a deal killer as I would be willing to jump back to the index to select the next chart.

So to recap, my post was talking about how I would create a digital version and how I would use it personally (w/o hyperlinks). I would never distribute it as it is not my right to do so.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
pbealo
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 10/12/06

Loc: New Hampshire
Re: Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print? new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5940008 - 06/25/13 03:29 PM

Sorry I'm a year out of sync guys, but I generally hang out on other forums.

Interesting topic. I'm one of the few that actually pulled the trigger way back when and bought the complete 17 vol set knowing it would likely be the last best catalog/atlas set produced.

So now it takes up ~3 feet of a bookshelf and I haven't used it. Any suggestions on what the set might be worth if sold??? I see just the S&T version of the MSA on CN classified at $700, though who knows what it will ultimately fetch.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print? new [Re: pbealo]
      #5940013 - 06/25/13 03:35 PM

Unfortunately, probably not a lot, for the same reasons you're selling it. Plus, you can download it all for free in PDF format; and the Celestia 2000 disk also contains it all (although I don't know if that's available any more).

A library, observatory, or astronomy club might be interested. Too bad; the full set must be a beautiful thing to behold, and for me would be worth having just to have it (if I had the money and the shelf space).

Good luck.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
turtle86
Pooh-Bah Everywhere Else
*****

Reged: 10/09/06

Re: Complete Hipparcos/Tycho+MSA 17vol print? new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5940398 - 06/25/13 08:10 PM

One came up for sale on eBay a year or two ago. I was following the auction and seriously considered bidding on it. I held back, because I already have the Millennium Star Atlas and didn't really think I'd much use for the whole 17 volume set. I also would've had a hard time finding room for all those volumes. If I recall correctly, it really didn't go for all that much, <$400 I think.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1


Extra information
1 registered and 5 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Geo557, kkokkolis 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 1281

Jump to

CN Forums Home




Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics