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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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EdTheEdge
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 04/10/09

Loc: Lomita, CA
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Shawn H]
      #5377174 - 08/20/12 09:33 AM

So I finally got a chance to try the Twilight I mount head on my CG-5 tripod and got mixed results....

The alignment peg on the CG-5 tripod had to be removed to fit the Twilight I mount. Other than that it fit perfectly and was much more stable than the tripod it came with but still not ideal for larger scopes.

I was hoping that I could use my 100ED with this mount but it is just too shakey and proper focusing is a real chore. Just to be sure I tightened everything up and placed anitvibration pads under the tripod. Still stoo shakey.

So I guess in the end I have found a perfect G&G mount for my 80mm and that'll help but not exactly what I have been looking for....


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Shawn H
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/16/07

Loc: Equatorial Guinea, West Africa
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: EdTheEdge]
      #5377185 - 08/20/12 09:42 AM

Is there any way you could add weights to the tripod

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OldManInHawaii
member


Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: EdTheEdge]
      #5378064 - 08/20/12 05:38 PM

Quote:

So I finally got a chance to try the Twilight I mount head on my CG-5 tripod and got mixed results....

The alignment peg on the CG-5 tripod had to be removed to fit the Twilight I mount. Other than that it fit perfectly and was much more stable than the tripod it came with but still not ideal for larger scopes.

I was hoping that I could use my 100ED with this mount but it is just too shakey and proper focusing is a real chore. Just to be sure I tightened everything up and placed anitvibration pads under the tripod. Still stoo shakey.





At what magnification does the focusing become problematic for both configurations w/ and w/o the CG-5 tripod? On my Meade tripod, there are still shakes when focusing but they damp out quicker than with the ES tripod. I only went as high as 143X on my 100ED scope.

And when you are focusing your scope, are the axial brakes fully clamped down on your mount?

I guess the next step up in alt-az mounts w/ slow motion controls would be something like the Canadian Telescope Heavy Duty Duo T mount that Woodland Hills sells. But I think I can live with what I have now.


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OldManInHawaii
member


Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Shawn H]
      #5378075 - 08/20/12 05:42 PM

I'm sure weights can be added somehow, but doing so kinda defeats the grab n go.

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EdTheEdge
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 04/10/09

Loc: Lomita, CA
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5379057 - 08/21/12 09:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

So I finally got a chance to try the Twilight I mount head on my CG-5 tripod and got mixed results....

The alignment peg on the CG-5 tripod had to be removed to fit the Twilight I mount. Other than that it fit perfectly and was much more stable than the tripod it came with but still not ideal for larger scopes.

I was hoping that I could use my 100ED with this mount but it is just too shakey and proper focusing is a real chore. Just to be sure I tightened everything up and placed anitvibration pads under the tripod. Still stoo shakey.





At what magnification does the focusing become problematic for both configurations w/ and w/o the CG-5 tripod? On my Meade tripod, there are still shakes when focusing but they damp out quicker than with the ES tripod. I only went as high as 143X on my 100ED scope.

And when you are focusing your scope, are the axial brakes fully clamped down on your mount?

I guess the next step up in alt-az mounts w/ slow motion controls would be something like the Canadian Telescope Heavy Duty Duo T mount that Woodland Hills sells. But I think I can live with what I have now.




I tried several mags.... highest was 194X then 134X and finally 38X all were pretty much unacceptable for me. But that's with my f/9 100ED. Like I said my ES 80mm rides quite solidly on this mount.

Edited by EdTheEdge (08/21/12 10:00 AM)


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EdTheEdge
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 04/10/09

Loc: Lomita, CA
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Shawn H]
      #5379065 - 08/21/12 10:02 AM

Quote:

Is there any way you could add weights to the tripod




That would be easy to do... and I may try it at some point, but I want this mount to be as portable as possible.


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OldManInHawaii
member


Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: EdTheEdge]
      #5383864 - 08/24/12 01:11 AM

Again, let me say that I do get vibrations when I focus my ES 102ED APO (f7), but I can live with this. Tightening down the locks for both the azimuthal and altitude bearings is recommended before focusing to reduce the vibrations.

I also noticed that my ES TWI's azimuthal bearing has some detectable slop or play even after the azimuthal lock has been fully tightened down. The Orion Versago III manual does not indicate how to tighten the bearing. Perhaps this is the main source of the vibrations (?).

I think I'll send an email inquiry to ES and see if they can suggest anything.


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OldManInHawaii
member


Reged: 03/12/12

Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5385183 - 08/24/12 08:08 PM

Quote:

Again, let me say that I do get vibrations when I focus my ES 102ED APO (f7), but I can live with this. Tightening down the locks for both the azimuthal and altitude bearings is recommended before focusing to reduce the vibrations.

I also noticed that my ES TWI's azimuthal bearing has some detectable slop or play even after the azimuthal lock has been fully tightened down. The Orion Versago III manual does not indicate how to tighten the bearing. Perhaps this is the main source of the vibrations (?).

I think I'll send an email inquiry to ES and see if they can suggest anything.





Just received the following quick response to my inquiry from ES:

"I saw your question regarding your Twilight I mount. Unfortunately, there is not a way to tighten the azimuth bearing. Its actually a worm gear. There is a free spinning worm shaft that is pushing, pulling on a worm wheel/gear. Let me know if you have any questions.

Marty DeBriyn

marty@bresser.com

T: 866-252-3811 Ext. 311

F: 479-717-2898


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stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: British Columbia Canada
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: Manny Myles]
      #5614755 - 01/10/13 12:15 AM Attachment (29 downloads)

Quote:

Came across another part that has no home, 3 hole spacing identicle to the 3 holes on altitude head since there are no directions in the box I'm guessing it's a spare cltuch bearing.

m2



I just received my ES Twilight today, and also found the extra part.
Does anyone have any idea of what its for?
I spent an hour scratching my head about it, until I found this post.
If it is superfluous it seems like a waste of materials.

Steve


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desertlens
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 12/06/10

Loc: 36N 105W
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: stevew]
      #5615518 - 01/10/13 01:15 PM

I too experienced some vibration and traced it to the arm. There is a bit of flexure in this component. My solution was to add two steel plates and essentially fill the opening in the arm. Vibration and damping time are significantly reduced. The photo shows this mod. This entire setup (minus the Nagler) weighs 11.2lb. or about 75% the rated capacity of the mount.



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stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: British Columbia Canada
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: desertlens]
      #5616317 - 01/10/13 09:40 PM

I just heard from Explore Scientific about the extra part.
Here is what they said.

"I apologize for the lack of a manual, or instructions for that piece. That piece is an adapter so that the tripod can be used as a camera tripod. Basically, you can detach part of the top of your mount head and place that piece on there so that you can attach a camera to your tripod. It is just an accessory, and not necessary for the mounts intended functions."

Steve


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desertlens
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 12/06/10

Loc: 36N 105W
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: stevew]
      #5616591 - 01/11/13 01:24 AM

Thanks Steve for the info on the mystery part.

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stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: British Columbia Canada
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: desertlens]
      #5616660 - 01/11/13 04:05 AM

Quote:

My solution was to add two steel plates and essentially fill the opening in the arm. Vibration and damping time are significantly reduced.





Nicely done!
Looks like a great idea.
I had mine out tonight with my C5, It worked really well.
I used some vibration pads and dampening time after a good rap to one of the tripod legs while using 150X was only about 2 seconds.
Acceptable for this class of small mount.
I'm looking forward to trying my 105 F-6 achromat on it.
The tripod could be a touch taller, but so far I'm very happy with it for a lightweight grab and go type mount.

Steve


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desertlens
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 12/06/10

Loc: 36N 105W
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: stevew]
      #5617311 - 01/11/13 01:46 PM

Steve,
The mod reduced my damping time to about 1/2 second (certainly under one second) and touching the focuser induced very little movement. I also found that leg vibration in this mount was virtually nil on a hard surface if the rubber leg tips are removed. I think that my AV pads work best with aluminum leg tripods. The steel legs used by ES are very stiff and don't carry much (if any) vibration in my setup.


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stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: British Columbia Canada
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: desertlens]
      #5618086 - 01/11/13 09:57 PM

Craig,
I was also thinking about removing the rubber tips.
I'll give it a try.
The C5 is very stable on the mount as it's a short stubby tube. There was no vibration at all using the smooth SCT focus knob. My 4 inch F-6 achromat will probably be a different story, however a fast achromat is not a high power scope anyway. I found the slow motion controls on the mount to be very smooth and responsive as well.
I'd love to hear more about your modification, as it might be something I look into in the future.

Steve


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desertlens
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 12/06/10

Loc: 36N 105W
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: stevew]
      #5618935 - 01/12/13 12:02 PM

Steve,
The mod is very simple: 2 3"x4" steel plates, clear drilled for 1/4"-20 machine screws and nuts. No tapping is necessary. The arm is sandwiched between the two. I don't know the actual gauge of the plates as they were scrap and I don't have a caliper but they're just under 1/8". Since refractors carry their weight at the ends, the longer tube of your 4" will likely have some moment arm and could benefit from the added stiffness. I like this mount. The steel legs are vibration dead. The motions are smooth with a little slop in azimuth as mentioned earlier and the wide stance and weight of the legs minimizes the "tail heavy" tendencies of this type of mount with an angled arm. Good luck and clear skies.


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cirrus1500
member


Reged: 04/09/13

Loc: California
Re: ES Twilight I alt az mount new [Re: OldManInHawaii]
      #5970488 - 07/14/13 02:28 PM

Hi,


Quote:

I'd like to clarify some small errors from my previous posts regarding the TWI:

-The weight of the raw mount/tripod is 15.3 lbs. (my previous post of 18 lbs. is wrong)

-The vertical shaft which screws into the bottom of the mount head has a metric 10mm (X1.50) thread (my previous post of 3/8" is wrong).




I have an observation about the ES-TW1's weight. If the ES-TW1 is the same product as the Orion's Versago III, then their weight should be the same. According to Orion, Versago is 18 lbs (see Versago III specs), so maybe your original post on ES-TW1 weight of 18 lbs is correct?

OTOH, from another thread, Jim7728 mentioned that the ES-TW1's tripod is a CG4, and the Starboy's tripod is equivalent to a CG5. And the Starboy's weight is also 18 lbs according to Vixen. If the ES-TW1 and Starguy are both 18 lbs and the Starguy uses a CG5 equivalent tripod, that will seem to suggest that the ES-TW1/Versago III's mount is heavier (more heavy duty?) than the Starguy's mount? Reviews from this thread also suggest that ES-TW1's CG4-like tripod is stable enough while Locoman commented that the Astroguy's mount is the weak link (this thread). If so, it will seem the ES-TW1 has a better balance of mount and tripod than Starguy and at the same time still manage to be $100 cheaper. Is this the correct conclusion? I am interested in buying 1 of them and would like to know which one to get. I am planning to use the mount with an existing 6" F5 reflector and a 102mm F9.8 refractor. I want the setup to be as portable as possible.

Edited by cirrus1500 (07/14/13 02:33 PM)


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