Grandpa Jim
old fogey
   
Reged: 08/04/12
Loc: GREAT AMERICAN DESERT
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OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
#5421822 - 09/15/12 01:18 AM
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Guys: I REALLY need some help here. I had done about two months research, and thought I had found the perfect scope for me(refractor for portability)........well, I had to send it back because I was put in a financial pinch, and decided the scope I had bought was more than I could reasonably afford with the issues......(disabled veteran, VA, health & bureaucratic issues, 'nuff said).
I had originally settled on a refractor for portability reasons, BUT - I went to my first "star party" tonight, and I was BLOWN away by the "Dobs".
Is there a big difference between the 6" and 8"?? (again. portability reasons).
I saw what seems to be a nice 8 inch Zhumell on sale for $399, which seemed great, but I'm wondering if it's too big for me to manage. I think the weight would work if I didn't have to go far, but the "bulky" might not (age & balance are another issue).
A couple questions..........do "Dobs" have diagonals?, can they use 2" EP's?
Some recommendations, Please!!??
Two drawbacks I noticed for me (age & disability) depending on the position of the scope, the finder was impossible for me to see through (I think "right angle" will fix that), I also noticed that to see, I had to get on my knees or crouch- not good!! for the old goat. Any fix??
Edited by Jim Jeffries (09/15/12 01:48 AM)
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drewp
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 05/19/07
Loc: 41.5 deg north moline ill
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: Grandpa Jim]
#5421837 - 09/15/12 01:52 AM
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no dobs dont use diagonals. yes they can use 2" eyepieces. but not always. ive had a couple 2 inchers that would not come to focus on a couple different dobs. ep`s that fit both 2" and 1 1/4" focusers will likely all work, if you have one that wont work in the 2" focuser because of backfocus or lack there of if it can be used in a 1 1/4" adapter it would probubly be enough to bring it to focus, i had a dob a few years back that would not work with a few 2" ep`s. i ended up remounting the mirror cell on bushings that brought the primary 1/4" closer to the ep. allowing my 2 inchers to finally work. i had the 10" zhumell dob and had no issues with the 2 inchers though . yea id get a ra finder or a telrad or similar. i prefer the ra finder in a light poluted location. i have a straight threw es correct image finder thats amazing except that its a straight threw and i have similar issues with it ob my es mak newt on a eq mount as i would on a dob/ alt az. so im going to get a telrad for mine and relocate the finder to the rear of the scope for when i need to spot fainter targets. as far as the knees go, id consider a adjustable viewing seat, they make them for astro use and some look pretty good. i dont know that this stuff will fix all your issues i do think there will be a little relief to them though.
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TexasRed
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/17/11
Loc: East Texas
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: drewp]
#5421860 - 09/15/12 02:44 AM
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Yes, an 8" will give you considerably better views than a 6" without being much heavier or bulkier. Most 8" Dobs will accept 2" eyepieces without problems.
No, they don't make diagonals for them, but you can mount both right angle correct image finders and green laser pointers on them to make them easier to aim without craning your neck or getting down on your knees.
Adjustable height viewing chairs are not complex to built or improvise or expensive to buy. They are highly recommended, no matter what kind of telescope you use.
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Maverick199
Postmaster
   
Reged: 02/27/11
Loc: India
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: Grandpa Jim]
#5421889 - 09/15/12 03:48 AM
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You have invariably both the right scope but due to financial constraints, had to let go.
Now if you opt for an 8" Dob, ( its a wonderful scope ), you have laid stress on both age and disability which will make using a dob very cumbersome.
I would suggest a choice between a 4" Refractor or a 6"-8" SCT. Both can be used with diagonals and with 2" eyepieces.
If you have access or dark sites or you live in an area where skies are clear, then a Refractor will be easily portable, cool down times almost non existent and on a mount like Astro voyager for example, give you portability and sturdiness. The SCT's ( Nexstar series ) on the other hand are lighter but require more cool down times, at least up to 45 minutes to an hour but that shouldn't pose an issue.
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Tony Flanders
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Reged: 05/18/06
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: Grandpa Jim]
#5421937 - 09/15/12 06:58 AM
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I thought I had found the perfect scope for me(refractor for portability)
Actually, refractors are not particularly portable per se. In fact, they are arguably the least portable design per unit of aperture. Insofar as a 4-inch refractor is portable, that's because it has only 4 inches of aperture, not because it is a refractor.
A 4-inch refractor on a traditional German equatorial mount isn't really any more portable than an 8-inch Dob. And it, too, has issues with bending your body to look through the eyepiece and the finder when the scope is in different positions. Almost all scopes do, some more, some less.
As for whether you can handle a Dob, only you can say that. Why not go to another star party during setup time and ask if you can try manhandling one for yourself?
Depending on your living situation, a hand truck might solve the portability problem for a Dob. But telescopes on hand trucks don't go down stairs very happily!
A laser-pointer finder will solve the problem of bending to look through the finder -- at a cost.
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Ed D
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 04/30/10
Loc: Sunny South Florida
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: Tony Flanders]
#5421996 - 09/15/12 08:39 AM
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Large aperture is great, but it will be of no use to you if it's too much scope for you to handle. The Bushnell Ares-5 compact table top Dob, Celestron's 4" MAK on a Go-To mount as well as 5" and 6" SCTs, Orion's 4.5" and 5" reflectors are all good scopes that are small and light and not horribly expensive, especially if you buy used. Try to go to another star party and spend time looking through whatever smaller scopes are available. Don't think about what you can't see compared to bigger scopes. Instead, concentrate what you can see. It's dark skies and good seeing that are most important, and if you live in heavy light pollution you can still see a lot of bright objects through a small scope in your back yard.
Ed D
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azure1961p
Postmaster
   
Reged: 01/17/09
Loc: USA
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: Ed D]
#5422007 - 09/15/12 08:48 AM
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Go to the local star party. Everyones given good points here. A C6 here might be a good way to go, but only you can say. It does break down into manageable size weight pieces and the views are terrific.'
Pete
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
   
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: azure1961p]
#5422046 - 09/15/12 09:25 AM
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8" dob portability? Get yourself one of these. Makes moving it around a snap!
David
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howard929
Member
   
Reged: 01/02/11
Loc: Low End of High Ground
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: Grandpa Jim]
#5422047 - 09/15/12 09:25 AM
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Jim,
IMO the Orion Starblast 6i Intellescope had a lot going for it that might be just right for you. All in it weighs just under 24 pounds, it will guide you to most of what's there to see and only costs $429.
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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04
Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: Tony Flanders]
#5422075 - 09/15/12 09:49 AM
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As for whether you can handle a Dob, only you can say that. Why not go to another star party during setup time and ask if you can try manhandling one for yourself?
I agree, Jim is the only one who can answer this question. Normally I move a tube Dob in two pieces, with an 8 inch, each piece weighs about 20 lbs.
Jim, if you can handle it, an 8 inch Dob will out perform even a very good 4 inch refractor for anything that fits in the field of view.
I do like the GSO DOBS better than the Orion dobs, particularly the focuser. Look around, Zhumell, Astro Tech and Apertura all sell GSO dobs but the finders may be different. The Orion is slighty lighter which may be an advantage to you.
Jon
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kfiscus
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 07/09/12
Loc: Albert Lea, MN, USA
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: Grandpa Jim]
#5422122 - 09/15/12 10:32 AM
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Jim, firstly welcome and thank you for serving our country! You have to wrestle (literally) with the questions of transport, your current health, future health, terrain you'll be stargazing from, etc. Your location's vague description might include me- I'd gladly let you manhandle my scopes to see what you liked/could manage. I would imagine that if you posted an 'ANYBODY NEAR OMAHA (or wherever)?' post, people would be willing to help you test drive a variety of rigs.
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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/29/10
Loc: SE Indiana
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: Grandpa Jim]
#5422147 - 09/15/12 10:49 AM
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Jim,
The 8" dob is a "sweet spot" for most bang,...err view , for the buck. If storage ,stairs, and a place to set it up are not problems then it can be a very good scope for you. Don't even think about carrying it in one trip unless on a wheeled cart .The two parts are much easier to carry one at a time.
Go to one of those star parties or a store that has a few scopes IF you possibly can ,and ask permission to actually pick up the scope.
Note that between 6" and 8" Dobs, I found the 6" noticeably easier to carry and did not notice a difference in viewing,but did not compare side-by-side.A point in favor of the 6" is that less exotic EPs perform well in the usual f8 length.There is no doubt the 8" will gather more light and has potentially a bit higher resolution.
If you discover even a full size 6" dob is too much physically,I suggest the Orion Starblast 6 if a sturdy,stable table is at your viewing spot.
And defintely get some sort of chair or drummer's stool.Even if it is just a resin lawn chair and a stack of cushions to boost you when needed.
I too, have back problems and the contortions needed to look through a straight finder are very uncomfortable.
A right angle finder will save you from that pain.I prefer right angle viewfinder on any Newtonian however it is mounted.Even have a RA on my 4.5" Dob!Often overlooked is that a 8 to 10 power 50 or 60mm finder is a modest rich field telescope on its own.
A Telrad is no less awkward and back straining than any other straight through finder.
Any straight through finder would probably be fine if mounted on a 10 or 12 inch riser so no contortions were needed to use it!Except no one offers such a riser commercially.
Finally ,note that a Celestron 6SE weighs only 30 pounds set up.You could easily carry out the 9 pound tripod then the 20 pound scope,and then the battery(power tank) and lens,etc.One more trip for the chair if it can't be left out.
The advantage of the SCT (c6SE) is your viewing position changes probably the least of any common scope so less need to constantly adjust chair height.
Try to get at least the 6" version of whatever scope as applying the "aperture in inches times 50" rule for useful magnification results in 300X which is also often the useful limit due to seeing conditions.6" and 8" scopes make a lot of sense for people who are wanting to explore the heavens with limited time,budget, or weight-lifting.
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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/29/10
Loc: SE Indiana
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: TexasRed]
#5422162 - 09/15/12 10:56 AM
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In today's security state I don't advocate laser pointers especially if one is near any airport or flight path.Being accused of targeting planes by an anonymous caller will lead to a police visit.At the very least all those bright police lights will ruin your night vision for that viewing session!
Other people make think differently.
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GOLGO13
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/05/05
Loc: St. Louis area
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: Grandpa Jim]
#5422172 - 09/15/12 11:07 AM
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I really suggest looking at the weight numbers of each scope and listing them. Now, even if something doesn't appear to weigh much, it could be awkward to carry. There are options to help with that depending on your viewing location (scope buggy).
I have the 6 inch Orion scope and it's quite light and gives great views. That's why I purchased it. I wanted a light weight F8 scope. The 6 inch dob used to be quite common, but it's getting a little harder to find now.
The GSO dobs appear to be a bit heavier than the Orion ones...something to consider.
I agree that the 5 or 6 SE scopes are a good choice too. But the Orion XT6 dob can be well equiped at $300ish. If you need finding capability, then the Intelliscopes are quite nice.
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Grandpa Jim
old fogey
   
Reged: 08/04/12
Loc: GREAT AMERICAN DESERT
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: GOLGO13]
#5422194 - 09/15/12 11:18 AM
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OK.......Thanks for the replies.......I am leaning toward this:
http://www.telescopes.com/telescopes/dobsonian-telescopes/zhumellz8deluxedobsonianreflectortelescope.cfm
I think(?) I can handle the set-up of it, because I did "test drive" one from set-up to use last night. The only issue that I can see with it is storage in my somewhat small house......which brings up a question? - How are "Dobs" stored?? (is it possible to store one pointing vertical on it's base, so that the "footprint" is small as possible?)
Edited by Jim Jeffries (09/15/12 11:26 AM)
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Ratchet
super member
   
Reged: 08/07/11
Loc: Tallahassee, FL
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: Grandpa Jim]
#5422248 - 09/15/12 12:02 PM
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Yeah, just store it pointing straight up. Even a huge scope will have a very small footprint.
I keep a 10 inch by the back door and it never gets in the way.
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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
   
Reged: 06/16/04
Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: Grandpa Jim]
#5422257 - 09/15/12 12:07 PM
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OK.......Thanks for the replies.......I am leaning toward this:
http://www.telescopes.com/telescopes/dobsonian-telescopes/zhumellz8deluxedobsonianreflectortelescope.cfm
I think(?) I can handle the set-up of it, because I did "test drive" one from set-up to use last night. The only issue that I can see with it is storage in my somewhat small house......which brings up a question? - How are "Dobs" stored?? (is it possible to store one pointing vertical on it's base, so that the "footprint" is small as possible?)
Jim
I store my Dobsonians vertically, there is no problem doing that. Generally it is best to cover both ends to make sure dust doesn't find its way in. R
As far as the 6 inch vs the 8 inch: since you can manage the 8 inch, I definitely recommend it. I have owned both and at the eyepiece, there is a noticeable difference. The 8 inch has 33% more resolving power and gathers about 80% more light.
The 8 inch Zhumell is also better outfitted than the 6 inch Orion. By itself, the 2 inch, two speed focuser is worth the $100 price difference.
I think you have done your homework, found a scope you really like and its time to go ahead and get it.
Jon
Edited by Jon Isaacs (09/15/12 12:10 PM)
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csrlice12
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 05/22/12
Loc: Denver, CO
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: Grandpa Jim]
#5422259 - 09/15/12 12:07 PM
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Yep. Just plop the scope onto the mount like you normally would and point it straight up. My 10" only takes up a 22" footprint, the 8" is slightly smaller. Actually, almost all Dobs (except those 16" and larger) takes up less of a footprint then any refractor on a tripod. The only thing to consider when storing a scope in the house is to allow time for the mirror to cool down to outside temperatures when you use it (be sure to take it out early).
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Paco_Grande
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 07/14/12
Loc: Napa Whine Country
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: Grandpa Jim]
#5422261 - 09/15/12 12:09 PM
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I attended my first star party last night. I expected to see all sorts of different telescopes. Wrong. Except for one 12inch Mead SCT, the rest were all Dobs of various sizes and makes, including a big trailer mounted unit. I had my 130mm Newt, which looked like a toy near all the other telescopes. 
The guy next to me had a 10inch Orion dob. I'd never seen the sky through one before (I'm a noob) and I was blown away by the view. Can't go wrong!
As for storage, looks like you can store it in any position you want.
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Tony Flanders
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Reged: 05/18/06
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Re: OK......NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED...(scope choice)
[Re: BigC]
#5422268 - 09/15/12 12:16 PM
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In today's security state I don't advocate laser pointers especially if one is near any airport or flight path.
Obviously you need to avoid airplanes. But other than that, nobody will ever know if you're using a laser pointer. A 5-mw laser is completely invisible to anybody more than 20 or 30 feet from the person who's using it.
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