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Otto Piechowski
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/20/05

Loc: Lexington, KY
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #5459372 - 10/07/12 02:27 PM

What is meant by a "ploymath"? as in your statement "And to add to that a scientist with several disciplines could have been referred to as a polymath".

This is the first time I recall having heard that word and I am curious.

Otto


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Otto Piechowski
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/20/05

Loc: Lexington, KY
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Mister T]
      #5459384 - 10/07/12 02:33 PM

That was a good cartoon!

The cartoon reminds me of Nietzsche's rhetoric. Not the darkness of his writing, but the quantum-like nature of his writing in terms of truthfulness and meaning. Sometime he wrote things that seem self-evidently true. Othertimes he wrote things that seemed to have deeply sublime meaning and insight. But you could never get both out of his writing at the same time; it was as if the closer his words came to saying something truthful, the less meaning they had...or vice-versa.

Otto


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Otto Piechowski
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/20/05

Loc: Lexington, KY
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #5459784 - 10/07/12 08:02 PM

I'm sorry...I was being dense....when you wrote, "You are right, Aristotle served absolutely no purpose in history (sarcasm intended" you meant to poke fun at any who feel/believe/think Aristotle had little/no importance in history.

Otto

(but, don't hesitate to correct me if I am being still dense again)


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Man in a Tub
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/28/08

Loc: Fogpatch, CA
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5459786 - 10/07/12 08:02 PM

IMO, the late Stephen Jay Gould was a polymath.

Wikipedia has a "list of people who have been called polymaths." The list is debatable. (Perhaps only by polymaths. )

The Wikipedia list includes Jared Diamond who wrote a notable essay on extraterrestrial life, "Alone in a Crowded Universe." However, I do not share his pessimism about our species.

Edited by Man in a Tub (10/07/12 11:51 PM)


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Qwickdraw
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/03/12

Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5460507 - 10/08/12 12:09 PM

Quote:

I'm sorry...I was being dense....when you wrote, "You are right, Aristotle served absolutely no purpose in history (sarcasm intended" you meant to poke fun at any who feel/believe/think Aristotle had little/no importance in history.

Otto

(but, don't hesitate to correct me if I am being still dense again)




Otto, it was meant as a joke but not intended to be at your expense... peace


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Qwickdraw
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/03/12

Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5460518 - 10/08/12 12:13 PM

Quote:

What is meant by a "ploymath"? as in your statement "And to add to that a scientist with several disciplines could have been referred to as a polymath".

This is the first time I recall having heard that word and I am curious.

Otto




Otto,

here is the Wiki definition of a polymath. probably several hundred CN members would qualify. Of course back then philosophy was bigger than hard science as there were not many actual instruments to test hypothesis with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymath


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Jason H.
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/23/07

Loc: Central Florida
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5461142 - 10/08/12 07:22 PM

A looooong time ago Otto wrote
Quote:

Our position, the position to which we keep seeming to return to here is

We think they exist, or we hope they exist, yet
we have no evidence they do exist, which
we can explain by either holding they don't exist or exist within conditions and parameters we are not as yet able to experience or enter or engage.

Interesting...these positions seem to apply equally well to the issue of the existence of intelligent/sentient extra-terrestrial creatures, and to the issue of beings with immortal souls.




Otto, regarding silentium universi, may I recommend

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

And Otto, although you are a religious philosopher/author who frequently returns (IMO) to religious faith-based topics (exempli gratia [e.g.] "immortal souls" quoted above), you may be interested in knowing that others have also observed and made comparisons of religion to The S.E.T.I..

Indeed, I've briefly touched on this subject in a book (which I would classify as a philosophical book, because it suggests specific methodology of conducting the search using game theory, which BTW may be an INCORRECT philosophy/methodology.)

I quote from it

"...SETI as a Religion

Some critics of SETI science point out that the assumptions the SETI scientists make are the same as those that religionists make about their deity (ies), that their assumptions are faith-based.

Webster's Dictionary describes "religion ... 2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons..."(purposefully omitting organized religion name examples).

And I guess there is a fundamental universal truth that its adherents (SETI scientists that is) are trying to establish.

Parallels (and comparisons) of SETI to religion seem to have been in the screenplay for Contact, a story by Carl Sagan & Ann Druyan (which was based on the novel of the same name by Carl Sagan).

Others have written (I wish I could remember which SETI book it was) that it would be necessary for SETI to adopt a religious-like philosophy to maintain the centuries-(or was it millennia?) long search.

Indeed, even I have written at times that perhaps there should be a formal name for this faith-based-system. (xenocogism or xenocreism etc.)

In a way its a new sort of faith-system. It is a faith that already has different sub-sects, one being space-probian (those who believe there are space probes from E.T.s), others are radioians (those who think E.T.s use radio to communicate, laseropticans (those who believe that E.T.s will use lasers to communicate, GRBians (those who think that E.T.s may time their signals relative to Gamma Ray Bursts), etc. Then there are the antitheticals, the wherearetheyans?/Fermians (those who say there are no E.T.s because they should have been here already), galactozooians (those who believe we are living in a preserve/exhibit in a galactic zoo) etc. It is a faith-system that seeks to further the education of human-kind. Even the U.S. Government has sanctioned the creation of several tax exempt eleemosynary corporations for the purpose of conducting SETI research (so in a way the government IS funding SETI!) These SETI institutions do not yet ascribe to space-probian philosophy (maybe in time they will come around, like the church that stopped using Latin in its services, amongst other ritual changes.) In the government's eyes, SETI is beneficial enough to humankind to afford it a tax exempt status (not even billionaires can do that!)

One of the great things about this belief system is that you won't be stoned or killed for being an infidel (e.g. like those damned Fermians), heck, you can even be a traditional atheist and still be a believer (talk about your non-denominational churches!). All are welcome to bring their other faith-system (baggage) with them (just check them at the door, and collect them on the way out.) Luckily we don't have to ring doorbells to try converting each other to the other SETI sects. "

Jason W. Higley


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Otto Piechowski
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/20/05

Loc: Lexington, KY
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Jason H.]
      #5461157 - 10/08/12 07:37 PM

Jason, I appreciate you and to some degree as well, Bill, for bringing these issues to our discussion here.

What I need to do is reread your post, let it digest a bit, and then respond.

As a tentative addition to your comments, one of the more learned folk on this forum said that if ET is discovered it will not be a philosopher who will make the discovery...or something close to that.

I've been thinking, perhaps, it may take the divergent phenomenological aspect of the philosopher to make the discovery. Perhaps the "evidence" has been before us all the time and we just need to get our minds around it.

Very interesting!

Otto


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Jarad
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/28/03

Loc: Atlanta, GA
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Jason H.]
      #5461726 - 10/09/12 08:28 AM

Quote:

It is a faith that already has different sub-sects, one being space-probian (those who believe there are space probes from E.T.s),



Yes, I believe these have been featured extensively on South Park....

I, for one, fervently hope that if do meet aliens, they are NOT of the "-probian" type...

Jarad


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Otto Piechowski
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/20/05

Loc: Lexington, KY
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Jarad]
      #5461857 - 10/09/12 10:20 AM

Now, keep in mind when you read the following question I am writing, that I've never before heard of these subsets of ETs.

Jason you described one subset of ET believers as "space-probian (those who believe there are space probes from E.T.s)"

And this you responded, Jarad, "I, for one, fervently hope that if do meet aliens, they are NOT of the "-probian" type."

Why did you say that, Jarad? I get the feeling you and Jason know some other things about "probian believers" in addition to what Jasan wrote.

Otto


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Jarad
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/28/03

Loc: Atlanta, GA
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5461932 - 10/09/12 11:22 AM

Um, Otto, you need to increase the sensitivity on your "tongue in cheek" detector...

Watch some episodes of South Park. There is a wiki page about the specific one we are referring to here.

Jarad


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Otto Piechowski
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/20/05

Loc: Lexington, KY
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Jarad]
      #5462023 - 10/09/12 12:23 PM

Oh my.....that was.....funny!?!

Not having had what some would call "a life", I have missed many parts of popular culture which would have provided me the context to make sense of some ironic or even sarcastic statements.


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Andy Taylor
Twisted, but in a Good Way
*****

Reged: 09/24/08

Loc: Epsom - UK
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5462498 - 10/09/12 04:52 PM

Quote:

Oh my.....that was.....funny!?!

Not having had what some would call "a life", I have missed many parts of popular culture which would have provided me the context to make sense of some ironic or even sarcastic statements.




Otto - I have to ask...

Are YOU an alien?

You are starting to sound like Spock


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Otto Piechowski
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/20/05

Loc: Lexington, KY
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Andy Taylor]
      #5462512 - 10/09/12 04:57 PM

Just a few fries short of a happy meal.

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Mister T
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Andy Taylor]
      #5462595 - 10/09/12 05:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Oh my.....that was.....funny!?!

Not having had what some would call "a life", I have missed many parts of popular culture which would have provided me the context to make sense of some ironic or even sarcastic statements.




Otto - I have to ask...

Are YOU an alien?

You are starting to sound like Spock




Fascinating!


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Otto Piechowski
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/20/05

Loc: Lexington, KY
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5465627 - 10/11/12 04:23 PM

No additional comments have been added to this thread for about two days. This may indicate we have exhausted our thoughts and comments about its topic of; "The silence is deafening".

When I started this thread, I never imagined it would continue so long and with so many comments and responses.

But now, silence surrounds this much discussed topic. As the originator of this thread, I now offer this final word.

Edited by Otto Piechowski (10/11/12 04:27 PM)


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Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5465767 - 10/11/12 06:16 PM

Here's a final, final word:

Rosebud.


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Otto Piechowski
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/20/05

Loc: Lexington, KY
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5465858 - 10/11/12 07:27 PM

or....maybe not.....

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Jarad
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/28/03

Loc: Atlanta, GA
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5465884 - 10/11/12 07:37 PM

The whole thing was worthwhile since it has introduced Otto to the wonders of South Park.

Jarad


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Otto Piechowski
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/20/05

Loc: Lexington, KY
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Jarad]
      #5465937 - 10/11/12 08:17 PM

Yes,
from drl I learned that the quantum state of various phenomena is not solely dependent on human observation but on any material thing that interacts with/perceives the quantum state event

from Jarad I learned, not only the significance of n=1, but the math behind it

from Dave I learned the geology of water formed smoothed rocks, clast, etc.

from Dave I also learned that entropy is essential for genetic deformation and mutation to occur as a precursor to evolution

Dave and Jarad both gave much advice about how to write in this forum...we will see how well I appropriate it

And finally...yes....Jarad introduced me to the popular culture of south park


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