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beatlejuice
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 04/05/11

Loc: Hamilton, ON,Canada
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #6282770 - 12/31/13 05:15 AM

It's late and I'm tired but just happened upon this thread. Don't get to this section very often but it happens that I just finished "Civilized Life in the Universe" by George Basalla and urge many of you to read this book as it is right up this threads alley and a good read.
Sorry if this has been mentioned in pages 3-6 of this thread but I just couldn't read it all now.

Eric


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rustyprice
member


Reged: 12/17/13

Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, USA
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: FirstSight]
      #6283866 - 12/31/13 04:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If you had irrefutable evidence of non-human extraterrestrial intelligence, who would you tell about it?




Most likely, to the psychiatrist evaluating you for commitment proceedings.




I do fairly routine commitments and I must say I've had a few clients that I've sat at my desk and pondered a bit too long before signing the paperwork!


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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: rustyprice]
      #6284025 - 12/31/13 05:34 PM

If I was the only one who had such evidence it would be hard to call it irrefutable.

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maugi88
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/25/13

Loc: SE MN
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: llanitedave]
      #6284265 - 12/31/13 07:33 PM

What would you call irrefutable? Certainly not a video, they get faked continuously. An object, it will get explained away. Even a body can just be whisked away to places unknown. Short of a living being on the fox news set, you got nothing. Maybe a landing at a live event that does not have the seven second delay. Um er wait.

What would be irrefutable evidence? Everything can be faked, covered up, seven second delayed. Social media is controlled whether we like it or not. A lot of that is for the censors to hit the "BLEEP" button. However it works for information suppression as well. Before you guys go nuts I am not a conspiracy theorist just being real.

Maybe if you got all the top and famous scientists in the world to make a new conference you could get it out.

Not sure, don't expect the news anytime soon




Edited by maugi88 (12/31/13 07:43 PM)


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GregLee1
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/21/13

Loc: Waimanalo, HI
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: maugi88]
      #6284565 - 12/31/13 11:05 PM

Quote:

What would you call irrefutable?



In case you're asking me, I would call something "irrefutable" if it was irrefutable. Did you want me to look up the word for you?

Quote:

impossible to deny or disprove.
"irrefutable evidence"
synonyms: indisputable, undeniable, unquestionable, incontrovertible, incontestable, beyond question, beyond doubt, conclusive, definite, definitive, decisive, certain, positive, sure
informal: sure as shootin'





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Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: GregLee1]
      #6284697 - 01/01/14 01:09 AM

There is absolutely nothing that meets those criteria. Everything can be disputed, questioned, contested, etc.

I'm not being contentious here, just realistic. The word has no meaning in the real world.


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Muffin Research
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/28/07

Loc: Belgium
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Ekyprotic]
      #6285113 - 01/01/14 09:42 AM

Quote:

Who is to say that we would even know "intelligent" life, even if it was right in front of us? It need not be anything like us, as a matter of fact, one famous cosmologist stated that a civilization sufficiently advanced would mimic natural processes and thus be indistinguishable from the background universe.

A civilization of a sufficiently advanced nature may be able to create wormholes (Kardashev Level III) and be anywhere in the universe at any point in time (or outside of it, heh.)

Also note that life need not be organic in nature, NASA has created a detector to find inorganic life also, but how well this performs wont be known until it actually detects something.....

BTW whenever I turn on the TV I am reminded of exactly WHY humanity cannot be considered an "intelligent" species so lets exclude them from this discussion




I have to agree with the last part, I also question human intelligence, I'm not sure it's there yet, I feel we are still way to hormonal & bacterial driven.
It might look intelligent but isn't it rather just simple complexity?

Why I think your mimic natural processes is interesting.. but would that be intelligent? if you take enough distance from the earth to look at us Koyaanisqatsi style (time lapsed from a distance) we too mimic natural processes.
Heck everything we do is still natural processes.
It's been a couple of years now that the word unnatural makes me wince. what the heck is unnatural? Isn't every process going on in this universe natural?

And well probably anything we encounter on our scale will be kinda similar to us or our fauna and flora and abide by those systematic rules. Anything far far far more advanced would probably evolve beyond our perception and dimensions?
A highly evolved intelligent consciousness would eventually get fed up with 'classical' ways of existence and interaction in our universe.
Or might even choose extinction by choice.. as in becoming aware of just being pointless propagaters of biological processes which are always destructive and short lived.


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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #6285302 - 01/01/14 11:18 AM

Quote:

There is absolutely nothing that meets those criteria. Everything can be disputed, questioned, contested, etc.

I'm not being contentious here, just realistic. The word has no meaning in the real world.




Well, there are claims that are impossible to disprove in principle. Those, we call "not even wrong".


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PeterR280
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/27/13

Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Muffin Research]
      #6285318 - 01/01/14 11:23 AM

Any intelligent life to that can travel here, can study us all they want and we would not have a clue. The question is whether they would want us to know. They could certainly communicate but would they want to reveal their presence? why would they reveal? It's like when you study microbes, you don't say I am watching you.

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: PeterR280]
      #6285340 - 01/01/14 11:33 AM

The microbes aren't wondering whether you're out there, either.

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PeterR280
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/27/13

Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: llanitedave]
      #6285379 - 01/01/14 11:50 AM

How do you know what the microbes are wondering about?.

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PeterR280
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/27/13

Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: PeterR280]
      #6285448 - 01/01/14 12:25 PM

When Europeans first went to less developed areas in Africa, South America, Australia, etc they brought "civilization" and religion to these places and tried to change the culture. Now, when anthropologists travel to remote parts of the Amazon for example, they try to be less disruptive. They would not interfere if possible, but they can't study without being seen

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moynihan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 07/22/03

Loc: Lake Michigan Watershed
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: maugi88]
      #6285495 - 01/01/14 12:48 PM

Quote:

Short of a living being on the fox news set, you got nothing.




And at that, a credible living being on a FAUX News set, would be unique and, well, incredible


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dickbill
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/30/08

Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: PeterR280]
      #6285518 - 01/01/14 01:07 PM

Quote:

Now, when anthropologists travel to remote parts of the Amazon for example, they try to be less disruptive. They would not interfere if possible, but they can't study without being seen




Some anthropologists took their job more seriously. Paul Emile Victor had to take Eskimo wives, he said, to be able to understand their life. You've got to do what you've got to do.
How do you think alien anthropologists will do?


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PeterR280
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/27/13

Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: dickbill]
      #6285653 - 01/01/14 02:28 PM

What would be the purpose of a much superior alien life to reveal their existence?

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maugi88
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/25/13

Loc: SE MN
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: GregLee1]
      #6285886 - 01/01/14 04:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What would you call irrefutable?



In case you're asking me, I would call something "irrefutable" if it was irrefutable. Did you want me to look up the word for you?

Quote:

impossible to deny or disprove.
"irrefutable evidence"
synonyms: indisputable, undeniable, unquestionable, incontrovertible, incontestable, beyond question, beyond doubt, conclusive, definite, definitive, decisive, certain, positive, sure
informal: sure as shootin'








Thanks for the incredibly arrogant explanation.

Your too kind.

As I stated in my post. When it comes to ET there is no such thing. Without a very public live demonstration.

Thanks though, I was asking you. That's why I premised my post with Greg from Hawaii.

Don't look too hard its not there.

All the best

Edited by maugi88 (01/01/14 04:14 PM)


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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: PeterR280]
      #6285939 - 01/01/14 04:36 PM

Quote:

How do you know what the microbes are wondering about?.




I've been reading their internet posts.


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Muffin Research
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/28/07

Loc: Belgium
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: llanitedave]
      #6285968 - 01/01/14 04:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

How do you know what the microbes are wondering about?.




I've been reading their internet posts.






Exactly


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Muffin Research
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/28/07

Loc: Belgium
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Muffin Research]
      #6285975 - 01/01/14 04:58 PM

we are not a single organism are we?
Maybe we have more in common with a Portuguese man o'war
and are colonies.

It's amazing how a parasite can influence human behavior so how about bacteria?


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maugi88
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/25/13

Loc: SE MN
Re: The silence is deafening.... new [Re: Muffin Research]
      #6286244 - 01/01/14 07:05 PM

Dave am I one of the microbes in which you speak?

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