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Super08
sage
Reged: 05/18/12
Loc: Great White North
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Temp-EST
#5422866 - 09/15/12 08:04 PM
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Here are a couple of pictures of the Temp-EST system from Deep Space Products I just installed on my C-14 today. A very easy install as they simply replace the factory non-powered vents. The bottom fan blows air into the scope and the top one blows outwards. The fans are wired together with a cable threaded down from one to the other behind the mirror. Then only one fan needs to be supplied with external power for both to work. The vents are filtered to keep out contaminates. I got mine in flecked black but they are available in a bunch of colors. It should help a lot with the cool down times on the C14 and can be left running throughout the observing session.


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Sunspot
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 03/15/05
Loc: Surprise, AZ
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Re: Temp-EST
[Re: Super08]
#5423596 - 09/16/12 11:34 AM
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I have had those on my C14 for several months and really love them. I run them for up to 8 hours at a time without a hitch. I do high resolution planetary imaging and the fans cause no vibration while running. In fact, the CGE-Pro mount by itself is the biggest source of vibration (in the RA drive).
Paul
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Dan Finnerty
sage
Reged: 09/11/11
Loc: Pasadena, CA
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Re: Temp-EST
[Re: Super08]
#5426515 - 09/18/12 12:01 AM
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Got these for my C11. I like them a lot. They seem to help a significantly, I can tell that tube currents increase when I shut them down if there is any significant temperature differential between the innards and the outards.
One thing I do not like is the noise. When putting eye to eyepiece, it is like being inside a turbine-powered helicopter (well, with noise-isolating headphones on, but still...). Those little fans run at very high rpms and generate a very high frequency whine. I am wondering if the exhaust fan in particular has a less than perfect bearing as it seems significantly louder.
I also don't like the fact that the fans are so small in diameter and the rest of the vent is blocked, maybe 2/3 of the area of the original vent. Passive cooling is significantly restricted thereby. Maybe passive cooling is not significant anyway, but this pretty much requires that the fans be running continuously. Not a problem as long as there is battery power and the noise is acceptable.
I also wonder if larger, lower speed fans could move more air through the tube and be more effective. I've been ruminating about making ducts and mounts for something larger that might be more effective at ventilating the tube and reducing noise levels. That would not be as clean as the Temp-Est design however, there would be large appendages hanging off the side of the tube begging to get bonked.
All in all, I like the fans, I would recommend them to anyone looking to reduce tube currents. I just wish the noise level were lower. It harshes my mellow a bit when visually observing and contemplating the meaning of life, the universe and everything
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Super08
sage
Reged: 05/18/12
Loc: Great White North
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Re: Temp-EST
[Re: Dan Finnerty]
#5426526 - 09/18/12 12:07 AM
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Strange mine are silent. I had to put my cheek close to them to be sure they were running. I wonder if it takes a bit of time for them to make noise. Or maybe it will be more noticeable once I am outside at night where it is quieter.
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Dan Finnerty
sage
Reged: 09/11/11
Loc: Pasadena, CA
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Re: Temp-EST
[Re: Super08]
#5426530 - 09/18/12 12:10 AM
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Mine made noise from the first time I turned them on. Mayhaps I should contact Deep Sky Products.
Ah, just reread your post. Yes, outside in the calm quiet of a dark night makes the high-freq whine much more noticable. On the other hand, I have always been sensitive to high-frequency noise. As a young boy, I could hear ultra-sonic trafic light sensors. I can still hear the pinging of bats at night, though I must confess not so well as years ago.
Edited by Dan Finnerty (09/18/12 12:14 AM)
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Super08
sage
Reged: 05/18/12
Loc: Great White North
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Re: Temp-EST
[Re: Dan Finnerty]
#5426532 - 09/18/12 12:11 AM
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Yes, because mine are extremely quiet.
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Super08
sage
Reged: 05/18/12
Loc: Great White North
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Re: Temp-EST
[Re: Super08]
#5426537 - 09/18/12 12:13 AM
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Dan are yours the little tiny ones like mine for the new style tubes or are yours the older larger style. Maybe that might make a difference as they would be different fans.
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Dan Finnerty
sage
Reged: 09/11/11
Loc: Pasadena, CA
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Re: Temp-EST
[Re: Super08]
#5426540 - 09/18/12 12:15 AM
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They are the new tiny fans. Just got them about a month ago for my brand-new C11 HD.
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Super08
sage
Reged: 05/18/12
Loc: Great White North
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Re: Temp-EST
[Re: Dan Finnerty]
#5426543 - 09/18/12 12:16 AM
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Same ones...
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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
   
Reged: 05/07/07
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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Re: Temp-EST
[Re: Dan Finnerty]
#5426616 - 09/18/12 01:00 AM
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The C11 fans are actually the largest (25mm). All the other tubes have to have smaller fans including the C14HD which uses 20mm fans. The small fans tend to be quieter in part because they are less powerful. All the smaller fans are actually 5VDC fans (with a converter installed) while the larger fans are 12VDC. The sound is likely from one of two things. It is likely, particularly with the exhaust fan on the C11, that the fan is rubbing against the filter screen and causing the sound. It is possible that one of the fans is bad, but it is unlikely. One of the fans has to have its blades next to the filter screen which does have the potential for rubbing and, while I don't send them out that way, shipping can be pretty rough.
With the vent assembly removed from the scope, using a small blunt object, you can very gently push the filer screen out from the fan just a little to see if that solves the problem. You can obviously send them back to me and I will fix them as well.
Other people have tried "ducting" larger fans and it would be nice if the vent holes were larger (especially on the C14). But you have to remember that you can only push so much air through a small hole, so even if you used larger fans you would quickly reach a point where the air pushes back through the fan since the hole is too small to allow it to flow through the system. While it might be possible to develop a system to use a slighter larger fan with the "ducting" inside and use of more of the original filer area of the vents, I avoided this because of the much greater difficulty in machining such a system and, more important, the fact that it would likely require the disassembly of the OTA to install them and I really wanted to avoid that. I also certainly did not want to hang something large on the outside of the OTA. The saving grace is that you are only having to exchange a fairly small amount of air inside these tubes (1 to 2 cubic feet) so that an air flow of 0.5 to 3.0 cfm is plenty sufficient to do the job effectively for both initial cool down, and more important, long term equilibration. I only wish that they had used the same general vent assembly (i.e. the one on the C11) for all the tubes. The smallest fans actually cost 3 times as much as the largest fans and the small ones are very hard to get and more difficult to install (your eyes and fingers don't get better as you get older).
Regarding the lessening of the vent area, that is necessary in order to support the flow of air through the tube rather than preferentially right back out the vent that it came in. While it may reduce passive cooling slightly, the passive cooling is not much to start with. The fans require so little battery power to run, that power should never be an issue for them.
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Dan Finnerty
sage
Reged: 09/11/11
Loc: Pasadena, CA
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Re: Temp-EST
[Re: EFT]
#5430209 - 09/20/12 01:09 AM
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Ed,
That is some very helpful information on some of the design trades you had to make for these fans. A little bit of knowlege goes a long way.
The only significant issue I have with my fans is the noise level, and yes it is mainly the exhaust fan now that you mention it. I'm betting on the screen, I did notice that tightenging the screws affected the noise level, but I did not pursue when I installed them.
I am insanely busy at work this week so it will have to wait a while for me to play with.
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