Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums
Privacy Policy |
Please read our Terms
of Service | Signup and
Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User
shindog
member
Reged: 07/22/12
Loc: sw ohio
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: NeuWerld]
#5428857 - 09/19/12 08:43 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Neu,
Although most of those are a little far, Mohican State Park is fairly close to where I grew up. Remember it well. Might just have to give it a try, next time I'm up that way visiting the familiy.
Thanks for all those sites.
|
NeuWerld
super member
   
Reged: 08/14/12
Loc: Mentor-on-the-Lake, OH
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: shindog]
#5429402 - 09/19/12 03:09 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
Neu,
Although most of those are a little far, Mohican State Park is fairly close to where I grew up. Remember it well. Might just have to give it a try, next time I'm up that way visiting the familiy.
Thanks for all those sites.
I figured they might be a haul but I know a few people who drive further regularly so I figured I'd post anyway. My old girlfriend went to UD and I used to make the drive more often then I cared to, about 3 hours and some change.
|
kwjohnson
super member
   
Reged: 03/27/11
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: NeuWerld]
#5430015 - 09/19/12 10:06 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Shindog--you're getting a lot of great advice here. I started about a year and a half ago with dob, and in the spring picked up a C6 (same as your scope without GoTo). Both are great fun even in a white zone on the south side of Minneapolis.
Like others have said, the Urban Club is a perfect list to start. Some objects won't be much to look at, but it will all help you figure out what's visible and not. There are other Astronomical League lists/clubs that play well in the glare: Double Star, Lunar I and II, Carbon Star (really unusual). You could also start on the Messier List (see what you can and save the rest for when you can manage to get to dark skies). A solar filter will let you do the Sunspotters Club. Knowing the right targets is most of the battle.
Once you get the hang of it, SkyTools will help you find more night objects by entering your observing site and equipment--and then filtering any of these lists and more by difficulty. You'll figure out quick enough what you can see and what you can't.
Other thoughts:
1) Try eyepieces with an exit pupil of 3-4mm. It darkens the sky so stars stand out better.
2) Make your scope as easy to use as possible. I can wheel my dob out of the garage in a minute any season of the year.
3) Instead of worrying about what you can't see, just grab time at the eyepiece. I've got bad skyglow and lights in every direction and don't bother to block them. Dark adaptation helps, but it's blown with a glance at the neighbor's yard lamp right across the street. Or the street light in the next yard. Or the three lights on the front of my next-door neighbor's house. (Need I say more?)
3) I often observe early in the morning--which gets easier with fall and winter coming. It's significantly darker. And peaceful.
4) Enjoy the brighter "showcase" objects. I like seeing new things, but I keep coming back to things like M42, M13, and M11 because the view is a little different every time. A narrow pass band filter can make objects like M42 downright gorgeous. I have no trouble seeing other Messier nebulas with the filter in place.
5) I get out to dark skies a few times a year--family vacations, trips to inlaws, club sites about a half hour and an hour away. I finished the Messier List this way and am a quarter through the Herschel 400. I check off what I can from home and leave the rest for later. Your scope is an ideal size for taking anywhere. My inlaws live in a town of 300 in a green zone, and I'm happy to grab an hour from their driveway (lots of local lights but dark sky) or from a church parking lot at the edge of town (I put the street lights to my back for a great view over cornfields). 15x70 binoculars on a so-so camera tripod can be mindblowing if your scope is too big--and that opens up another couple lists--Binocular Messier and Binocular Dark Sky (many of those will be also visible from your home).
I guess my big point is just to grab what you can where and when you can. A lot of people seem to give up on any sort of urban observing, and that's understandable if you've been awed by dark skies. But I'm a half-hour drive (one way) to a yellow zone so I've decided to make the most of home.
I've learned a lot here and through Rod Mollise's Urban Astronomer's Guide. Keep reading, asking questions, and enjoy!
|
shindog
member
Reged: 07/22/12
Loc: sw ohio
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: kwjohnson]
#5430167 - 09/20/12 12:25 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
I agree - "just get out there" is probably the best advice. Tonight I was out in the back yard for about 4 hrs. I was amazed at the difference a few days made, there were NO outdoor lights on at any of my neighbors! WooHoo! Made for a much more pleasant session.
I still had the issue of only having about 30degrees N/S and maybe 40degress E/W of the sky that I can see. Mature trees, 2 story homes make for a nice community, but really not conducive to observing.
I bookmarked the Urban site. That will be a big help. Well that, and actually learning the night sky a little!
|
kwjohnson
super member
   
Reged: 03/27/11
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: shindog]
#5430468 - 09/20/12 08:10 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Uncle Rod has a book to go along with his web site--thick thing with lots of info.
Glad to hear you had a good night of viewing!
I also set up at a school about a block away. Huge safety lights but I can tuck around one corner and get a clear view of the southern sky I don't have from home. A bad view is better than no view, except when they light up a hockey rink to the south during the winter. That totally blows it.
You'll also find that as the sky rotates through the night and the seasons you'll see more than you might suspect.
|
michael hester
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/28/08
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: kwjohnson]
#5430591 - 09/20/12 09:46 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
My tip for the burbs: get a telescope with a computer in it. It can be any of the push-to or go-to systems out there.
Reasoning behind this is that an untrained astronomer will have difficulty locating faint fuzzies from a city/suburb sky. I know because I went through this. I would think i have the right location from what was in the book, but somehow I just don't see the thing i'm looking for. Even an easy pick like Andromeda's Galaxy is hard for a beginner to locate. I would "get lucky" and find it. With a computer assisted telescope I can get reassurance that the scope is pointed in the right spot. Knowing that the target is in the eyepiece allows me to start hunting the view for it. It trains me on just how dim some of these fuzzies actually are.
|
coutleef
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 02/21/08
Loc: Saint-Donat, Québec, Canada
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: kwjohnson]
#5430934 - 09/20/12 01:17 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
1) Try eyepieces with an exit pupil of 3-4mm. It darkens the sky so stars stand
you made great comments but this one puzzles me. I wonder if i understand well.
from a white zone i usually try to keep the exit pupil below 3mm or else the background sky turns from black to grey.
Could this difference in experience be related to the scope design or FL of scope (although i would think not).
i an not criticizing here but just trying to understand, maybe there is something i am doing wrong 
thanks
|
galexand
super member
   
Reged: 07/10/12
Loc: Bloomington Indiana
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: shindog]
#5431152 - 09/20/12 03:18 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
I think the most important thing is expectations. Once you know where you can look without obstructions, and what objects you won't be able to see (galaxies, *sigh*)...then it's fun. Given my low expectations I'm always pleased how much of even most bright diffuse nebulas (like omega nebula and its nearby neighbors) I can see. And open clusters, most globulars, etc...look great.
|
kwjohnson
super member
   
Reged: 03/27/11
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: coutleef]
#5431172 - 09/20/12 03:28 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Coutleef, I think you have it right. The background sky gets grayer (and contrast decreases) as the exit pupil gets bigger (as the magnification gets lower).
Under city skies, things really wash out for me, for example, with a 28mm in my dob (5.8mm exit pupil). I often swap the stock 23mm in my finderscope for a 14mm 82* to get a darker background for starhopping. It's nicer to look at but also easier to see dim stars. But then I lack crosshairs.
This is more of a worry with your 12" f/5 dob than with your 8SE, where the dob's shorter focal length makes it easier to get that bigger exit pupil (and lower magnification) with stock eyepieces.
Someone can surely explain that better than I just did.
|
Starman81
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 03/06/08
Loc: Metro Detroit, MI, USA
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: shindog]
#5433193 - 09/21/12 05:52 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
I agree - "just get out there" is probably the best advice. Tonight I was out in the back yard for about 4 hrs. I was amazed at the difference a few days made, there were NO outdoor lights on at any of my neighbors! WooHoo! Made for a much more pleasant session.
I still had the issue of only having about 30degrees N/S and maybe 40degress E/W of the sky that I can see. Mature trees, 2 story homes make for a nice community, but really not conducive to observing.
I bookmarked the Urban site. That will be a big help. Well that, and actually learning the night sky a little!
IME, when you are observing from a typical white zone light polluted site (i.e. most backyards), the light domes in all directions go up to about 20-30 degrees, so having those adjacent buildings or trees blocks that out and then what you're left it is the slightly darker sky that isn't as washed out, which for me is a good thing. In short, you aren't missing much by having your horizons partially obstructed.
|
phreon
member
Reged: 09/15/12
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: Starman81]
#5433254 - 09/21/12 06:40 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Shindog, I visit my friend up in Dayton fairly regularly and we get the scope out when the sky cooperates. Even though the sky from Vandalia is pretty lousy, there's always something to see.
Within driving range, you have John Bryan State park which has a field dedicated as an observatory and a bit longer drive, there's Hueson Woods. Despite being near Oxford, Hueston Woods is an excellent place to scope and well worth the hour drive. It's no dark sky site, but the Milky Way is clearly visible. The parking lot back by the archery range is a prime spot as it's in the recesses of the park and obviously, no archer is doing his or her thing at 12 a.m.
|
csrlice12
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 05/22/12
Loc: Denver, CO
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: phreon]
#5433267 - 09/21/12 06:57 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
...and those just might not be sattelites passing overhead.....
|
Tony Flanders
Postmaster
   
Reged: 05/18/06
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: Starman81]
#5433339 - 09/21/12 07:42 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
I still had the issue of only having about 30degrees N/S and maybe 40degress E/W of the sky that I can see.
IME, when you are observing from a typical white zone light polluted site (i.e. most backyards), the light domes in all directions go up to about 20-30 degrees, so having those adjacent buildings or trees blocks that out and then what you're left it is the slightly darker sky that isn't as washed out, which for me is a good thing. In short, you aren't missing much by having your horizons partially obstructed.
I've heard this from one of my co-workers, and I'm inclined to say that this is a case of "sour grapes." Light dome or no light dome, Sagittarius is still the center of our mini-universe, and if the southern horizon is blocked up to 30 degrees, you're missing out on the very best part of the sky.
But in the OPs case, the sky isn't partially obstructed, it's almost entirely obstructed with just a narrow slit overhead. That means not just missing out on Sagittarius but also on most of the rest of the sky, including all the planets except for Jupiter, which just happens to be super-far north right now.
|
Starman81
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 03/06/08
Loc: Metro Detroit, MI, USA
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: Tony Flanders]
#5433429 - 09/21/12 08:39 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
I've heard this from one of my co-workers, and I'm inclined to say that this is a case of "sour grapes." Light dome or no light dome, Sagittarius is still the center of our mini-universe, and if the southern horizon is blocked up to 30 degrees, you're missing out on the very best part of the sky.
But in the OPs case, the sky isn't partially obstructed, it's almost entirely obstructed with just a narrow slit overhead. That means not just missing out on Sagittarius but also on most of the rest of the sky, including all the planets except for Jupiter, which just happens to be super-far north right now.
I WILL admit it--it is indeed a case of sour grapes! As far as true suburban backyard observing is concerned, it's either obstruction or direct lights hitting your eyes in most cases--pick your poison. My comment was based off my situation where adjacent apartment buildings block up 25* up of the east and west but leave my north and south unobstructed (relatively). If someone's south is totally obliterated by lights or an obstruction, that is a deal breaker, as the greatest concentration of celestial treats is in that region.
|
Tony Flanders
Postmaster
   
Reged: 05/18/06
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: Starman81]
#5433913 - 09/22/12 06:43 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
If someone's south is totally obliterated by lights or an obstruction, that is a deal breaker, as the greatest concentration of celestial treats is in that region.
Exactly. If the east and west are blocked, you can plan around it; it's just a matter of picking the right time to observe any given object. But if the south is blocked, you have a real problem.
|
jgraham
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/02/04
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
|
Re: Living in the burbs - white zone observing tips?
[Re: Tony Flanders]
#5433967 - 09/22/12 08:05 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Trees or no trees, enjoy what you have. If'n it were me, I'd explore every square degree of the sky I had available. Visit every star and every object, popular or not, just to see what there is to see. Sometimes you'll find some real gems that for some reason have never made it onto the common object lists. One of my favorite star-hops is to visit every star in Lyra. I was surprised to see so many beautiful multiple stars and star fields in one relatively small constellation. Other interesting targets for restricted skies include asteroids and variables stars. There are usually several good examples scattered all over the sky. With regard to variables it can be interesting to look for stars with maxima are within your range and minima that are at or below your range, that way they you can watch them slowly appear and disappear without necessarily trying to estimate their brightness (somehing I was never very good at, but I now measure with my cameras). Recurring nova (cataclysmic varibles) can also be fun to watch.
The Universe is a big place, and there's soooo much to see even if you can only see a small part of it.
Have fun!
|
|
9 registered and 26 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: Dave Mitsky, panhard, WaterMaster
Print Thread
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Thread views: 1634
|
|
|
|
|
|
|