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nicholas_nolte81
super member
Reged: 11/19/11
Loc: Mesa, az
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Wedge or autoguider?
#5433782 - 09/22/12 01:57 AM
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So IM starting into astrophotography and recently got myself a good focuser with a focal reducer on it. SO next on my list is either a wedge or an autoguider.
I was thinking the wedge because it would give me more time to learn the gear I have already without adding complicated gear that will have another learning curve.
What do yall think?
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Chris Erickson
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 05/08/06
Loc: Waikoloa Village, Hawaii
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Re: Wedge or autoguider?
[Re: nicholas_nolte81]
#5433948 - 09/22/12 07:45 AM
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You have to have a wedge (or a derotator) in order to do just about any kind of astrophotography so I would say that the autoguider would quite a ways down the list.
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*skyguy*
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 12/31/08
Loc: Western New York
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Re: Wedge or autoguider?
[Re: nicholas_nolte81]
#5434286 - 09/22/12 11:44 AM
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Definitely get the wedge first. I have a 12" LX200 "Classic" permanently mounted in an observatory on a wedge. It's been carefully polar aligned and the PEC has been trained. It can do 3 minute unguided exposures using a f/6.3 reducer. If you can get your scope to track accurately enough to take images in the one minute or so range ... you can stack enough of them to get by without using a autoguider ... for now. Eventually, you will want to take longer sub-frames and then you'll need to get an autoguiding setup.
Have fun with the imaging ...
Jim
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DrOxygen
member
Reged: 12/30/10
Loc: New Jersey
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Re: Wedge or autoguider?
[Re: *skyguy*]
#5434666 - 09/22/12 03:44 PM
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+1 on the wedge. Good polar alinment is everything.
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budman1961
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 02/25/11
Loc: Springfield, MO
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Re: Wedge or autoguider?
[Re: DrOxygen]
#5434887 - 09/22/12 06:38 PM
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+1 on the Wedge. Look for a used Mitty or Milburn, after that, the Meade Ultrawedge, then lastly a Meade Super wedge.
Andy
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nitegeezer
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 11/27/07
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Re: Wedge or autoguider?
[Re: budman1961]
#5435250 - 09/22/12 11:18 PM
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I will add another vote for the wedge. I have a Meade Super Wedge and am really happy with it, but I only have the weight of an 8" scope so I don't know what it would do with the bigger models.
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LoveChina61
sage
   
Reged: 06/20/09
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Re: Wedge or autoguider?
[Re: budman1961]
#5435253 - 09/22/12 11:19 PM
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or you could limit adding new variables and just enjoy learning the basics of astrophotography while your scope is still in its current AltAz configuration. You are already used to using the scope that way for visual work so you could focus on learning how to use your camera and save the wedge for later.
You can actually take some pretty decent 30-60 second exposures in AltAz mode especially lower towards the horizon either towards the east or west.
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*skyguy*
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 12/31/08
Loc: Western New York
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Re: Wedge or autoguider?
[Re: nitegeezer]
#5435751 - 09/23/12 09:45 AM
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Quote:
I will add another vote for the wedge. I have a Meade Super Wedge and am really happy with it, but I only have the weight of an 8" scope so I don't know what it would do with the bigger models.
I have the Meade Super Wedge installed on my 12" LX200 "Classic" and it's more than adequate for imaging. Where it loses points compared to the Mitty, Milburn or Meade Ultrawedge is its accuracy in fine tuning the pole location.
For the Superwdge, you need to start tightening down the Altitude and Azimuth lock-down knobs as you zero-in on the pole. If you wait until you're precisely polar aligned and then tighten down the alt-az knobs, the alignment will shift significantly away from the pole.
The Superwedge works fine in an observatory situation ... where you will rarely need to adjust the polar alignment. If you need to setup and breakdown the equipment every imaging session, than the other ... more expensive ... wedges would be a better choice ... or, at least less frustrating to use!
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jgraham
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/02/04
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
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Re: Wedge or autoguider?
[Re: *skyguy*]
#5437634 - 09/24/12 08:37 AM
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Actually, the question is probably moot. I don't know of any autoguiding software that will work with an altaz mount, so you'll need the wedge before you can autoguide.
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dadeo
member
   
Reged: 11/19/07
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Re: Wedge or autoguider?
[Re: jgraham]
#5446245 - 09/29/12 04:07 AM
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Wedge, but don't be afraid of autoguiding, the Orion Starshoot with PHD makes it simple. The Orion ST80 is a bargain scope for guiding too. They have a whole scope guider mount package, but I went with ADM rail and rings for sturdier mount.
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dadeo
member
   
Reged: 11/19/07
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Re: Wedge or autoguider?
[Re: dadeo]
#5446249 - 09/29/12 04:11 AM
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Also btw, once you get your wedge, for AP you'll want to tame your PEC (don't bother in alt/az). PEC is a beast of a different color all together!
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StarmanDan
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/27/07
Loc: Deep in the heart of Texas
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Re: Wedge or autoguider?
[Re: dadeo]
#5446650 - 09/29/12 11:41 AM
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I have the Meade Superwedge and upgraded it with the Mighty Mitty mod that makes adjusting the alt-az for polar alignment sooo much easier.
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Markigno
sage
Reged: 01/09/10
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Re: Wedge or autoguider?
[Re: StarmanDan]
#5455415 - 10/04/12 05:09 PM
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Hi Nick,
this topic has already been discussed many times. Wedge or de-rotator field ... autoguiding or not autoguiding ... To be or not to be!
As in life, even here we must accept some compromises. It all depends on the kind of priority that you wish to assign to these compromises, and accept the negatives that will meet, and that you will have to deal with. Do you want long-exposure photography "SERIOUSLY" with a LX200 fork mount telescope?
A wedge works well (with telescope guide or OAG and very accurate PEC), but with large telescopes (12" or more), not mounted permanently, can become awfully uncomfortable assemble and disassemble the equipment every night and do the drift method for polar alignment whenever. This, in time, could become a nightmare.
A de-rotator field, in this case, is much faster, easy and comfortable, and it works very well! In 10 minutes you are able to fit all the equipment and you can photograph immediately, without polar alignment and without drift method! To do this, however, we need specific accessories and software adequate control, but all this is very expensive to get very good results.
Certainly, the final results will vary based on how much and quality investment in equipment accessory. An LX200 "out of box" will always give poor results in astroimaging, both wedge that with a de rotator field. These are wonderful visual instruments , but to do astroimaging SERIOUSLY, you must spend time and money to optimize this type of equipment.
Let us remember that they are tools that, even with the use of focal reducers, maintain focal lengths very difficult to manage, requiring a high tracking accuracy, out of the reach "nominal" of any LX200, naked and raw, without a proper tuning, with the right accessories required for accurate tracking possible.
WARNING! In your specific case, you have a LX200 "Classic", the de-rotator field Meade 1220 NOT work!
Autoguiding in alt/az, without de-rotating field, will not correct the rotation of the field in the main camera.
Alt / az configuration will work perfectly ONLY autoguiding radial (off-axis) with de-rotator field (long exposure). Any other configuration alt / az mode DOES NOT WORK.
Autoguiding in alt / az mode, without de-rotator field, help you get a better tracking for single frame of 30/40 seconds. With this small exposure time you can also use a guidescope parallel rather than an OAG. Final stack will have to undergo a substantial crop the photo to remove the rotation between the individual frames.
My advice goes against the current.
Step 1: +1 to autoguiding camera (a used Meade DSI PRO is perfect).
With a small telescope guiding economic achromatic in parallel you can start to use the telescope in alt / az mode and see how you are using an autoguiding and start doing some photography without stars elongated (always no more than 30-40 seconds).
Step 2: (when you can) buy a wedge (good and solid) and PemPro. At this point you have the right acessories to make long-exposure photography with good results.
In my humble opinion this is the right priority in the purchase of accessories, because a wedge without autoguiding ... will give results unexciting.
Marco
Edited by Markigno (10/06/12 03:19 AM)
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