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Equipment Discussions >> Binoviewers

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Eddgie
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Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal???
      #5454827 - 10/04/12 10:11 AM

Has anyone seen a solution that would allow a Denkmeier or Earthwin Bino to a Baader prism diagonal?

I really want to keep my back focus as short as possible, and this is the thing I love about the Baader Maxbrights, but I find myself wanting to be able to use a 24mm Pan type eyepeice in my binos.

The Mark V is of course the obvious but expensive choice, but if there is a way to connect the Denkmeier or the Earthwin body to the Baader Prism, I may go in that direction.

So, if anyone has knowledge of an adapter or mating rings or something, please let me know.

Thanks!


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Tamiji Homma
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5454856 - 10/04/12 10:36 AM

Hi Ed,

I have a custom adapter designed and built by Starlight Instruments to connect
Denk binoviewer to T2 system. It is on left.



They could have reduce two more millimeters...

I think Precise Parts can design/build what you are looking for.

Here is a start. I think they can build an adapter up to your specification.
http://www.preciseparts.com/ppmain/adapter.html

Tammy


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Eddgie
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Tamiji Homma]
      #5454906 - 10/04/12 11:01 AM

Hi, Tammy. Thanks for the response.

If you would not mind my asking, can you tell me how much Starlight charged? I don't mind the little eaxtra length.

Also, is that a Baader T2 diagonal in the picture? How does the binoviewer rotate? Is there some kind of lock screw?

Again, I appreciate your help.

Regards.


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Tamiji Homma
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5454944 - 10/04/12 11:38 AM

Hi Ed,

It is $174 for adapter itself, $50 for black oxide coating. It is expensive adapter. The diagonal is Baader T2 Prism Star Diagonal in the picture.

Here is more closeup photos. The custom adapter fits to Baader Quick Changer System. So you can rotate it as you wish.



Tammy


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Eddgie
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Tamiji Homma]
      #5455072 - 10/04/12 01:08 PM

Ah, Ok, I see.

So there is another component...The collar on the T2 to attach it to the adapter.

Yes, this gets expensive fast.

I went to the web site you sent where they build custom adapters, but I was unsure that I understood the configuration. It had the baader 1.25" diagonal on one side, but the other side (eyepiece) only have "Denkmeier Power Sitch".

Do you know if the Denk Power Switch on the telescope side uses the same threads as the bino face itself? For example if the Denk Power Switch has $89, so that seems reasonable.

I may bite the bullet and buy some Mark Vs though. But it is a big bullet for sure.... LOL.

Again, I thank you for your response.


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johnnyha
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5455388 - 10/04/12 04:51 PM

The Powerswitch uses the same threads as the Denk itself. You can remove the Powerswitch and connect the Denk nosepiece directly to the Denk, hence = same threads.

I had checked before and Precise Parts does make that part Eddgie, talk to the owner and I'm sure he can confirm this for you. If you do not want to use the Quick Changer then you would simply get an adapter that connects the Denk to male T threads of the T2 prism diagonal. You do not need the dovetail and Quick Changer that the MkV uses. The Denk can be screwed directly to the T2 diagonal with the right adapter - Denk to male T thread. So the adapter you want would have female T-threads on the diagonal side.


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Eddgie
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5455414 - 10/04/12 05:08 PM

Perfect info. And yes, I would prefer to connect the bino directly to the T2 threads.

Thanks a million!

Edited by Eddgie (10/04/12 05:10 PM)


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johnnyha
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5455425 - 10/04/12 05:18 PM

Great. You probably want the adapter to be at least 1/2" long so you don't have problems with clearance.

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Tamiji Homma
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5455426 - 10/04/12 05:20 PM

Hi Ed,

Here is photo of individual parts that I have.



I think that Precise Parts makes Dovetail-male thread -> T2 female thread adapter using online tool. However, I wouldn't recommend it.

I think it is better ask Precise Parts to build something that I asked Starlight Instruments, Denk Dovetail male -> pseudo Baader Quick Changer Ring (#T2-07) and get Baader Quick Changer (#T2-06). I don't know Precise Parts gets you cheaper price or not, though

The #T2-06 T2 female thread attaches to T2 Prism Diagonal male thread.
The custom part, pseudo Baader Quick Changer Ring is screwed into bottom of Denkmeier binoviewer using Dovetail thread.

Tammy


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johnnyha
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Tamiji Homma]
      #5455443 - 10/04/12 05:30 PM

Tammy what are your thoughts regarding your recommendation to forego attaching the Denkmeier directly to the T2 prism diagonal? Is that dovetail and Quick Change ring strictly necessary?

Thinking about it, I guess you would need some of the Baader spacer rings to make sure the diagonal comes out in the correct orientation... ah OK I see. Yes the Quick Changer is a better solution, there are times when the Binos need to be rotated in the diagonal... OK I just answered my own question!

I agree with Tammy then Ed. A direct connection is not optimal. Beeter to go with a dovetail and Quick Changer solution.

Edited by johnnyha (10/04/12 05:40 PM)


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Tamiji Homma
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5455459 - 10/04/12 05:41 PM

Hi Johnny,

There are a few reasons that I can think of, going with Quick Changer way.

1. You can attach/detach binoviewer easily.
2. You can rotate binoviewer easily.

However, you would add about 15mm using Quick Changer. If you need minimum lightpath, I guess it isn't the solution but reasons #1, #2 outweight the lightpath requirement at least to me as long as it comes to focus to infinity.

OK why not both adapters

Tammy


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johnnyha
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Tamiji Homma]
      #5455461 - 10/04/12 05:41 PM

I agree Tammy. I don't really care about the "Quick Change" so much but it would be frustrating not to be able to rotate the binos in the diagonal. It would probably still work, but not really optimal. If you only view alt/az then it might not be a problem though.

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Tamiji Homma
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5456834 - 10/05/12 04:39 PM

Hi Ed,

I decided to try Precise Parts T-thread<->Denk binoviewer adapter. I got confirmation email from Precise Parts, will be shipped on Oct 17th.

I'll let you know how well it fits after I try it.

Tammy


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Eddgie
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Tamiji Homma]
      #5456902 - 10/05/12 05:33 PM

Wow.. You must be an easy sell.. LOL.

I would very much appreciate a picture and feedback when you get it.

I really would like the Mark Vs because of their operation with the Baader diagonal, but I am really struggling with the price. The Denk IIs are looking good to me, though even the Denk IIs seem pricey.

Seeing the adapter and hearing feedback on how it works would sure help.

Again, thanks for the news.

Regards.


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junomike
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5456948 - 10/05/12 06:19 PM

Ed, Why not look for a used pair of TV Bino's? They have the T2 Ring (female) and can be mated to the Baader Diagonal directly (no other adapters needed)as seen here!

The larger Prisms allow for longer F/L EP's such as the 24mm Pans as well.

Mike


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johnnyha
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: junomike]
      #5457111 - 10/05/12 09:02 PM

Mike that is a terrific suggestion, the TV binos are top notch. I did not know they had a T-thread! It also looks like it has a retaining collar like the Maxbright so you can rotate the binos in the diagonal. Very cool.

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Eddgie
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: junomike]
      #5457193 - 10/05/12 11:01 PM

Are you sure that the Televues have the same clear aperture as the Denks and the Maxbrights? I was under the impression that the Televue's only had 25mm openings.

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Eddgie
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5457196 - 10/05/12 11:03 PM

Ah... Just looked it up. The Televue is listed as 27mm apertures. Will indeed consider these. Buy the time I buy the adapters for the Denks, I think the price would be similar, but I like the direct mating as in the Maxbright and Mark V.

Thank you very much John and Mike!

Edited by Eddgie (10/05/12 11:11 PM)


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johnnyha
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Tamiji Homma]
      #5457197 - 10/05/12 11:04 PM

Quote:

Hi Ed,

I decided to try Precise Parts T-thread<->Denk binoviewer adapter. I got confirmation email from Precise Parts, will be shipped on Oct 17th.

I'll let you know how well it fits after I try it.

Tammy




Great Tammy please keep us posted.


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johnnyha
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5457201 - 10/05/12 11:07 PM

Quote:

Ah... Just looked it up. The Televue is listed as 27mm apertures. Will indeed consider these.



With the direct connection to the T2 prism diagonal this would really be the "less backfocus" king!


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Eddgie
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5457230 - 10/05/12 11:26 PM

Well, there is the added benefit of using the Baader GPCs as well!

In this configuration, it would likely be that I could just use the Baader GPC inserted into the diagonal the same way that it is used with the Maxbright!

This means that I could buy just the Televue bino body for $875 new, or there is one listed now on CN for sale that includes the Televue refractor adapter for $800.

But I prefer the Baader GPCs, and I don't see why they would not work.

What a great idea. Less than the Denks and with about the same aperture, but with the shortest possible light path.

Thanks again!


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johnnyha
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5457246 - 10/05/12 11:43 PM

It should work the same as the Maxbrights. Man, sometimes there are some GREAT deals on TV Binovues, I've seen them go for $500 and less. I'm tempted myself.

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Eddgie
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5457256 - 10/05/12 11:51 PM

I am looking at the ads for the Televue.

Am I missing something, or does the Televue not use individual diopter type focusing? The manual on the TV web site is perhaps old, and maybe the later versions have diopter focusing, but the manual says that matching focus is accomplished by sliding the eyepeices in and out.


I really prefer the ability to focus the eyepeices individually.


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johnnyha
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5457346 - 10/06/12 01:30 AM

Aha! There's the rub. I think you are right Eddgie and I would definitely not want a bino without individual diopter adjustment. I think the Denk II definitely has the edge here, I LOVE their diopters. I always felt like I could dial it in to the nth degree. Mark V, meh, requires some degree of iteration back and forth because you have to loosen the collar that holds the eyepieces to adjust the diopter, but then the focus changes again slightly when you actually tighten the collar back. Once you are set you're okay, but the eye does funny things when you view for awhile and its nice to be able to adjust them "on the fly". The Denk II is very simple and robust and the diopters simply thread in and out providing real time fine focus with beautiful precision. You don't have to loosen the eyepieces and tighten them back again like the MkV. So the Denk II are MUCH better in this regard especially when sharing views.

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Eddgie
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5457832 - 10/06/12 11:54 AM

Quote:

You don't have to loosen the eyepieces and tighten them back again like the MkV.




I was under the impression that the Mark V has microfocusing for each eyepeice.

I think the previous Ziess version did not.

I am still powerfully attracted to the Mark Vs except for the price. I really like the Baader system and the fact that the light path is kept very short.

But the cost is high enough that I would be willing to live with a Denk II and an adapter if I can find one that is very low profile.

I also considered a Denk II with a 1.25" nose and just using a Clicklock/T2 on top of the Baader prism. This may not be all that much longer light path than some adapters may require. I am pretty sure that Denk has a 1.25" nose available. Again, would not be as short as the Mark V, but at least I would be able to exploit the very short light path of the Baader T2 Prism.


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DaveJ
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5457889 - 10/06/12 12:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You don't have to loosen the eyepieces and tighten them back again like the MkV.




I was under the impression that the Mark V has microfocusing for each eyepeice.

I think the previous Ziess version did not.

I am still powerfully attracted to the Mark Vs except for the price. I really like the Baader system and the fact that the light path is kept very short.

But the cost is high enough that I would be willing to live with a Denk II and an adapter if I can find one that is very low profile.

I also considered a Denk II with a 1.25" nose and just using a Clicklock/T2 on top of the Baader prism. This may not be all that much longer light path than some adapters may require. I am pretty sure that Denk has a 1.25" nose available. Again, would not be as short as the Mark V, but at least I would be able to exploit the very short light path of the Baader T2 Prism.




The Baader Mark V do, indeed, have microfocusers on each eyepiece. What Johnny mentioned has to do with the system Baader uses which requires that the eyepieces be released from the Clicklock (1/4 turn, at most) and then the microfocusers lift the eyepieces away from the clicklock. This is not easy to explain, but I love the system now that I'm used to it. Having come from the Denk II, which is slightly more intuitive to focus, it was confusing at first...now it's second nature. I find the view with the Mark V significantly better. Identical color and light throughput through each eye with the Mark V was noticed immediately. It's a stunning view. As a matter of fact, for the past 2 hours I've been watching migrating birds feed at our bird feeders using my wife's 80mm Apo and the Mark Vs. The 1.25 GPC in the front of the 2" nosepiece focuses on the feeders 12 feet away and I can immediately focus to infinity with the same exact setup. I really love it. I'm not making this any easier for you, am I, Ed.


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Eddgie
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: DaveJ]
      #5457926 - 10/06/12 01:02 PM

Thanks for explaining. I think I understand what you are saying.

My preference would be for the Mark V. My feeling is that it is evolutionally perfected technology and there is no meaningful improvement to be found past this point in a 1.25" ocular binoviewer.

I really like the Baader system.

But... It is a lot of money. There is no way to suger-coat that. The $800 price differential to the Denk II makes me willing to accept an adapter based solution to mate it with the Baader diagonal.

I also believe that Denkmeier used to make a 1.25" nose for their BVs, and I would consider using the Denk 1.25" nose on the front of the Bino and putting a 1.25" click-lock on the Baader diagonal. This would be perhaps 10mm to 12mm longer than the adapter route, but my calcualtions suggest a total back focus in this configuration of close to 200mm.

I really want to keep the total light path to 180mm or less, and this may be difficult with the Denks. I do believe that the Mark V/T2 is unbeatable in terms of light path length in a 27mm aperture BV.


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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5457951 - 10/06/12 01:19 PM

As Dave says, the Mk V does have microfocusers for each eyepiece but you cannot adjust them without loosening the eyepieces and the focus does change when you tighten them back up, so it is indeed an iterative process. The MkV diopters also require both hands to adjust. [EDIT: sorry that's not true actually, it can be done with one hand]. Once they are set for your eyes you should be okay but you cannot adjust them as you view. The Denks otoh you can adjust them while you are viewing without loosening the eyepieces or as I put it earlier "on the fly" and "in real time".


Edited by johnnyha (10/07/12 09:03 PM)


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Tamiji Homma
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5457953 - 10/06/12 01:20 PM

Quote:

I also believe that Denkmeier used to make a 1.25" nose for their BVs, and I would consider using the Denk 1.25" nose on the front of the Bino and putting a 1.25" click-lock on the Baader diagonal.




Left is 1.25" nosepiece, right is 2" nosepiece for Denk binoviewer.


Tammy


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johnnyha
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Tamiji Homma]
      #5457955 - 10/06/12 01:22 PM

Denk used to include the 1.25" nosepiece as well as the 2", I'm sure you could find one with a "wanted" ad, there must be hundreds of unused ones floating around out there.



Edited by johnnyha (10/06/12 01:35 PM)


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Eddgie
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5457973 - 10/06/12 01:45 PM

I do have the Maxbrights and love them, but really want to use 24mm ES 68s to binoview with.

I owned a Denk (Standard) supersystem, and was loosing aperture with itin my C14.

I replaced it with a Baader Maxbright and this configuration sold me on the importance of keeping the light path short in an SCT. With Maxbright/T2, the system is working at 100% aperture.

The Denk Supersystem was loosing about 2 to 3 inches of aperture with the low power arm in place, so that also taugth me that a power switch really doesn't work with an SCT unless one is OK with the aperture loss (I am not).

So, now I am back at the point where I want to use 24mm wide field eyepeics. Even 22mm Pans vignetted slightly in the Baader Maxbrights, thought the 20mm ES 68s work fine. Still, in the C14, this works out to almost 200x, which is a bit more than I can use for much of my viewing.

I know I can stay below 200mm with the Mark V, and possibly with the Denk II with a short adapter, and with 24mm eyepeices, get the magnifications down to 165x, which seems a bit more useful for general observing.

I do appreciate all of the advice though...


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johnnyha
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5458031 - 10/06/12 02:29 PM

Yes sorry Ed I went back and read your original post and deleted my suggestion for the Maxbrights realizing you probably already had them.

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Eddgie
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5458108 - 10/06/12 03:39 PM

Oh, no problem. It was an excellent suggestion.. I have highly recommended the Maxbrights to several individuals. I find them to be super-excellent. Just would like a bit less magnification.

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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5458190 - 10/06/12 05:03 PM

I hear you. I don't do a lot of low-power binoviewing but last night I had the 24mm Pans in my MkVs testing out some focusing positions. I recently installed an FT3545 focuser on my FS152 with a low profile adapter and sure enough I can reach focus at 1X with my 24mm Pans with about 1/2" to spare - but only because I am using the MkVs with their shorter overall lightpath. With the new focuser and the MkVs I can also reach focus at 2.6X with 1/2" to spare on the other end racking it almost all the way out. Absolutely perfect! This was impossible with the stock focuser which had a 2.75" drawtube as opposed to the Feathertouch 4.5" drawtube.

Back to the Denk IIs - I assume you were planning on using them without the Powerswitch? Because the Powerswitch not only adds length to the setup, it also requires the OCS, it does not work without it.


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Tamiji Homma
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5479139 - 10/19/12 05:00 PM

Quote:

Wow.. You must be an easy sell.. LOL.




Hi Ed,

I received T2 female<->Denk Dovetail adapter.

Directly on top of Baader Prism Star Diagonal. Adapter length is 15mm:


Denk II binoviewer is removed, from Denk Dovetail connector side:


Just adapter from T2 thread side:


Connect Baader Quick Change System instead of directly screwing into thread of Baader Prism Star Diagonal:


I could ask Precise Parts a little shorter adapter to cut down light path. I think it could be 5-6mm shorter , perhaps. But it is harder to grip adapter if it is too short... I guess this is good compromise.

Tammy


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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Tamiji Homma]
      #5479161 - 10/19/12 05:20 PM

Sweet!

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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Tamiji Homma]
      #5479218 - 10/19/12 05:58 PM

Very nice. Compact and a clean solution.

But I have decided to go with the Mark V. It was a difficult decision.

It was very good of you to post the pictures though. I think for a lot of people that want a big aperture bino, the Denk Standard with this adapter will be a good alternative to the Maxbright. You could use the Denk standard head, the adapter, and the standard Baader T2 prism and for a little more money than the Maxbright, have a 27mm aperture vs the 23 of the Maxbright.

Again, very nice adpater, and I am sure that the forum members will appreciate knowing that they have another option.

Baader T2 Prism/Denk Standard would be a great mid-priced system.


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jtaylor996
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Reged: 09/02/08

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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5501699 - 11/02/12 10:29 PM

What did that precise parts adapter cost?

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Tamiji Homma
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Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: California, USA
Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: jtaylor996]
      #5502372 - 11/03/12 12:52 PM

Quote:

What did that precise parts adapter cost?




Are you asking price of DenkII binoviewer to T2 female thread adapter?

If so, it was $113.

Tammy


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jtaylor996
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Reged: 09/02/08

Loc: North Texas
Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Tamiji Homma]
      #5502530 - 11/03/12 03:02 PM

That's the one. Thanks!

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jtaylor996
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Reged: 09/02/08

Loc: North Texas
Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: jtaylor996]
      #5502531 - 11/03/12 03:03 PM

Also, there's no other part in there, correct?

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Tamiji Homma
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Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: jtaylor996]
      #5503289 - 11/04/12 01:15 AM

The custom Precise Parts' adapter connects Denkmeier binoviewer bottom to T2 thread of Baader T2 diagonal. You don't have much choice of angle.

So I would recommend to get Baader Quick Change system shown below.
You can attach/detach/rotate easily. You'd have to give up 15mm-ish light path with the setup, though.



Tammy


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AstroScience
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Reged: 10/28/10

Loc: Israel
Re: Adapter to connect Denkmeier to Baader diagonal??? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5512838 - 11/10/12 08:37 AM

Hello Ed, hi guys, i found the easiest way to connect Denks to Baader prism is to use baader T2 to 1.25" Clicklock adapter and 1.25" nosepiece attached either to binos them self, either to the PxS.
I did something some time ago and have shown what i did to get shortest possible combination with Denks, maybe you'll find it useful.
Here is the link.


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