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Observing >> Deep Sky Observing

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droid
rocketman
*****

Reged: 08/29/04

Loc: Conneaut, Ohio
Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: nytecam]
      #5476578 - 10/18/12 09:21 AM

Any one out there know where one might find a telrad chart to print out for this object?

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bremms
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 08/31/12

Loc: SC
Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: droid]
      #5476927 - 10/18/12 01:08 PM

My backyard is red-orange and I tried with my newly cleaned C8. I really couldn't see it for a good while and I remebered from MANY years ago exactly where it is compared to the orange star nearby. Went back later and saw a hint of center maybe.... The C8 doesn't have great contrast. I used to spot in my 6" reflector from a green zone. It popped right out in my 10" with a Zambuto quality mirror. Back then it was closer to a blue site.

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mnev326
member


Reged: 02/06/07

Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: bremms]
      #5477179 - 10/18/12 03:04 PM

I observed NGC891 for the first time this year on Tuesday night. My observing site is in an orange zone in New Jersey. The scope I was using was my 15in dob. I located it with my 27pan(70x), then I swapped to my 13ethos(146x). The transparency was above average. I could not make out the dust lane. In the past I've observed it with my 10in dob at the same site. If the transparency is not above average to excellent it is a no show.

Mark


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auriga
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/02/06

Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: jack45]
      #5479323 - 10/19/12 07:09 PM

Quote:

Been looking for NGC891 for two years. Not sure I've found it as of yet. Is it located between the star Almach and M34? If not where from the star Almach should I look (north,south,east or west of Almach). How should it look in a 12" or 16" scope?

Reply:
Here is one way to find it:
It's 2/3 of the way from Almach to Algol and about a degree up. I can see it in reasonably dark skies but it isn't bright, it's possible to miss it. The photos of it make it look a lot brighter than is seems to me visually.
Bill

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Matt2003
Post Laureate


Reged: 04/22/10

Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: auriga]
      #5479345 - 10/19/12 07:23 PM


On the 17th I tried again. Could ALMOST call it, but not enough. YET...

Clear Skies,
Matt


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bremms
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 08/31/12

Loc: SC
Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5479779 - 10/20/12 12:42 AM

Spotted it tonite in the C8 just barely.. I looked at the star patterns in the wider field pics and knew RIGHT where it was. Just came inside. Faint faint little streak/ smudge.

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Matt2003
Post Laureate


Reged: 04/22/10

Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: bremms]
      #5480575 - 10/20/12 03:15 PM


I know the field stars by heart now, it does not take me 2 seconds to get there. now seeing the Beast, well...

Clear Skies,
Matt


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5481553 - 10/21/12 08:42 AM

Quote:

Any one out there know where one might find a telrad chart to print out for this object?




Droid,

You'll need a much more detailed map to find NGC-891. I used a page from Uranometria 2000 and found it that way last week. It was very "ghostly" looking in my 10" and a lot easier to see in my friend's 16". I literally photcopied EVERY PAGE from Uranometria 2000 and put the pages into transparent page holders. I then use a small magnet to hold it to my metal scope tube and I turn the map to see field stars just like I see them in my low power 38mm Orion Q70 finder eyepiece until I reach the target. I then switch to higher power to inspect the object.

Good luck!


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
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Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: blb]
      #5484014 - 10/22/12 05:05 PM

Quote:

NGC 891 was discovered by Caroline Herschel in 1783 using a 4.2 reflector telescope. Walter Scott Houston could see it with his 4-inch refractor and Steven O'Meara has a great sketch of this galaxy using a 4-inch refractor in his Caldwell book. Yet some people have trouble seeing this galaxy with an 18-inch scope, Why? Is it any surprise that the reason is light pollution? To have your best chance of seeing this galaxy you will find that you need the darkest skies you can find or have access to. Although this galaxy is easy to find, it may never be seen with much light pollution present. So my suggestion is to stop looking for this galaxy at home until you have found it from a dark sky site. That way you will know exactly what you are looking for and where it is located among the stars in your eyepiece. Once you know what this faint object looks like and where it is located you may find that it is visible at home with a much smaller scope but it will be very faint.




Regardless of discoverer, my first view of this galaxy was in 1963-1964 with a 4.25" reflector. Thirty years later, I had no problem seeing it with a 4" SCT.
The key? Very dark skies (mag. 6.2+ in the first instance, 6.8+ in the second).
In my 12.5", it's magnificent--not only because of its size and details (like the central dust lane), but also because it is in a spectacularly rich field of stars. There are very few galaxies that are in rich fields, and that makes NGC891 worth the look.
I put its surface brightness higher than NGC247, but below that of NGC253, both of which are visible during October nights.
It goes without saying you should not try for this galaxy when there is Moon in the sky.


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Matt2003
Post Laureate


Reged: 04/22/10

Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Starman1]
      #5484250 - 10/22/12 07:59 PM


I found NGC 253 relatively easy in a 25mm EP on the 8XTi. Too much magnification seemed to make it invisible, but at 48X it was pretty large & almost obvious. So far, aside from M.31, my favorite Fall galaxy.
Some day, NGC 891, some day..

Clear Skies,
Matt


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CosmoSat
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/24/09

Loc: India
Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5485659 - 10/23/12 05:02 PM Attachment (23 downloads)

Me and my observing buddies hve seen this galaxy frm outside the suburbs of our city located at 19N with an 8" scope. There are these small light domes around the horizon where we observe frm and a big one at the NW. The faintest stars visible at zenith are about mag 5, sometimes 5.5 mag. The skies are pretty dark overhead and the milkyway is easily seen.

Almost everytime that we hve observed this galaxy when it was close to the meridian..the faintest star visible with the naked eye near the galaxy was 60 And (Hip 10340). Tho the hop is frm Almach to the 5.8 mag double (HIP 11090) as seen in the finderscope. With direct vision, the two ends of the galaxy are not visible...just the central part is...but with averted vision..it appears really long and a bit broad than what it looks likes in pictures..and hvnt observed the dustlane yet. The first time I saw it...what came to my mind was M82..it was almost like the ghost of the Cigar Galaxy!, and not like ngc 4565 frm what I had read.

M33 and M74 can also be easily located through the 8" frm here in the above mentioned viewing conditions, NGC 253 too is very easy and bright frm our latitude.

In my opinion, what might be making NGC891 difficult for some viewing with a small scope is not just the low surface brightness..but the foreground star that appears imposed very close to the center of the galaxy. It might be a likely cause of distraction..similar to the blinking planetary nebula. That star seems to be the likely culprit. Lookout for nebulousity around the star arrowed in the chart below.

Its a bit surprising to me that many ppl are not able to see it with a 12" that too frm dark skies! (since we hve seen it with a smaller scope and not very dark skies) Maybe it takes some practice to observe objects with low surface brightness. Atleast the usual techniques for observing objects having low surface brightness like tapping the scope to make the object move in the field of view shud help detect it..

Hope the attached chart might be of some help..


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stratocaster
sage
*****

Reged: 10/27/11

Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5485839 - 10/23/12 06:42 PM

Quote:


Some day, NGC 891, some day..





Matt, I remember a comment you left on another thread regarding NGC 891. I didn't realize you've been trying to track this down for a while.

Yes, dark skies are the answer. In Death Valley (grey zone?) with a 10" zambuto NGC 891 was not difficult at all - even in less than transparent skies. I thought it looked like a flying saucer and the dust lane was evident. I wish now I would have thrown a bit more power at it to see if I could have pulled out more detail.


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Matt2003
Post Laureate


Reged: 04/22/10

Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: stratocaster]
      #5485911 - 10/23/12 07:29 PM


I thought I had seen it two years ago, but I have come to doubt myself on THAT observation. It really has become something of a frustration for me, here at home. Every dark, clear night I go out & near the end of my session hop over to Almach & out to the double, then down to that trapezoid (parallelogram??) of faint stars. And still, no clear sightings of NGC 891. I must note M.109 is also pretty hard from here.. In Ft. Davis at 2010 TSP it was absurdly easy. Of course, the fact that NGC 404 was being a bit difficult should have told me all I needed to know about my chances on the 17th. Well, there is always next week, I suppose. LOL

Clear Skies,
Matt


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stratocaster
sage
*****

Reged: 10/27/11

Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: droid]
      #5486408 - 10/24/12 02:32 AM

Quote:

Any one out there know where one might find a telrad chart to print out for this object?




This is what I used: http://www.saguaroastro.org/content/db/Book110BestNGC.pdf


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uniondrone
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 12/05/09

Loc: Streetlight Archipelago
Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5487269 - 10/24/12 04:23 PM

Quote:


I thought I had seen it two years ago, but I have come to doubt myself on THAT observation. It really has become something of a frustration for me, here at home. Every dark, clear night I go out & near the end of my session hop over to Almach & out to the double, then down to that trapezoid (parallelogram??) of faint stars. And still, no clear sightings of NGC 891. I must note M.109 is also pretty hard from here.. In Ft. Davis at 2010 TSP it was absurdly easy. Of course, the fact that NGC 404 was being a bit difficult should have told me all I needed to know about my chances on the 17th. Well, there is always next week, I suppose. LOL






Hi Matt, from my orange zone observing site I find NGC 891 to be a bit tougher than M109. I have seen both in my 10" dob, but NGC 891 seems to resemble a faint elongated band of dim light. It is very easy to pass over without seeing at this level of light pollution and aperture. I can see it with direct vision, but only faintly. At this same site and same scope, NGC 404 is by comparison immediately obvious to me. If NGC 404 was being troublesome, NGC 891 might have been out of reach. Don't give up and be sure to try different magnifications. NGC 891 might respond better to lower mags than most galaxies.


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David Knisely
Postmaster
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Reged: 04/19/04

Loc: southeastern Nebraska
Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: droid]
      #5487421 - 10/24/12 06:06 PM Attachment (28 downloads)

Quote:

Any one out there know where one might find a telrad chart to print out for this object?




OK, here is it in dark mode from MEGASTAR:


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David Knisely
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/19/04

Loc: southeastern Nebraska
Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: David Knisely]
      #5487423 - 10/24/12 06:08 PM Attachment (24 downloads)

And here is the Telrad chart in MEGASTAR's chart mode:

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Matt2003
Post Laureate


Reged: 04/22/10

Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: David Knisely]
      #5487556 - 10/24/12 07:56 PM


David,

Thanks, David. Because, I have actually been upping my magnification trying to see NGC 891! Maybe that is my error, as it was clear NGC 253 did not like high magnification in my Orange sky.
I will wait until Luna is out of the way again & try a lower magnification. I am not expecting anything except a sliver of very dim grey anyway, still its been two years. And would be ironic if that logged sighting which was called into doubt was actually a real sighting. Irony, hmm..

Clear Skies,
Matt


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blb
Post Laureate


Reged: 11/25/05

Loc: Piedmont NC
Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5487818 - 10/24/12 11:05 PM

Matt, what magnification have you been using to try and find NGC 891? Like NGC 253 your best bet for finding NGC 891 would be your 25mm EP in the Orion XT8i dob. A magnification of 48X seems to be a good place to start. I use my 24mm eyepiece in my Orion XT10i at a magnification of 50x to find this galaxy. Again though, with light pollution, this is a tough one to find on anything less than the best of nights.

Trying to follow your star hop in my Uranonetria 2000 sky atlas, When you get to the faint stars that make up the parallegram, your only about two thirds of the way there. It is much easier to center Almach in your field-of-view and sit back and wait for 18 minutes. After waiting 18 minutes, NGC 891 should be almost in the center of your field of view. NGC 891 is located 03 deg 20 min east of Almach.


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azure1961p
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: blb]
      #5489389 - 10/25/12 10:28 PM

Ive found much beyond 90x isnt really favorable. But thats with respect to typical country skys in new enland. Magnification like 200x or more, for my eyes would blot it out of existence. So much is personal here but thats where I am on it.

Pete


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