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Observing >> Deep Sky Observing

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jack45
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Help Finding NGC891
      #5458570 - 10/06/12 10:40 PM

Been looking for NGC891 for two years. Not sure I've found it as of yet. Is it located between the star Almach and M34? If not where from the star Almach should I look (north,south,east or west of Almach). How should it look in a 12" or 16" scope?

Clear skies!


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JayinUT
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: jack45]
      #5458580 - 10/06/12 10:50 PM Attachment (112 downloads)

Here is a map from Starry Night on the location of 891. Hope it helps.



Edited by JayinUT (10/06/12 10:51 PM)


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jack45
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: JayinUT]
      #5458615 - 10/06/12 11:22 PM

That helps, thanks!

Clear skies!


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David Knisely
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: jack45]
      #5458721 - 10/07/12 01:39 AM

Quote:

Been looking for NGC891 for two years. Not sure I've found it as of yet. Is it located between the star Almach and M34? If not where from the star Almach should I look (north,south,east or west of Almach). How should it look in a 12" or 16" scope?

Clear skies!




If you have an equatorial mount, you can move it about 3.4 degrees due east of Almach (Gamma And). Another trick to use (especially if you have a Dob) is putting your scope dead-center on Almach (shut off any tracking if you have any), and wait for about 18 minutes 27 seconds. After that time interval, NGC 891 should be almost dead center in the telescope's field of view. Depending on conditions and the power you are using, you may or may not see it, as it has a very low surface brightness that can sometimes be wiped out by even modest sky glow. Under a dark sky, a 12 to 16 inch should show it as a faint moderate-sized roughly cigar-shaped fuzzy patch that has a very low contrast irregular darker dust lane down the middle of the galaxy which is best seen with averted vision at moderate powers. With averted vision under a dark sky, at anything but the lowest or highest powers, it can look a little like some black and white images of the galaxy, but with its low surface brightness, seeing a lot of detail in it can be a little tricky sometimes. I have seen the dust lane under a really dark sky in my 9.25 inch SCT, although it is a lot easier to see in my 14 inch Newtonian. I might recommend using between 90x and 180 with a 12 to 16 inch aperture for viewing the details in NGC 891. Clear skies to you.


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jack45
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: David Knisely]
      #5458771 - 10/07/12 03:27 AM

Thanks, Used the 12" scope still unable to see it, with a 13mm TV eps tonight. Will try the 16" scope with a 18mm and the 13mm eps tomorrow night. We have mag 6 skies and the transparency is above average. I've been doing this to long not to be able to find it. I don't like using the IntelliScope Computerized Object Locator, but may have too.

Clear Skies!


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JayinUT
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: jack45]
      #5458816 - 10/07/12 05:27 AM Attachment (76 downloads)

I'll make a closer shot for you and see if this helps at all. Also, you could use the intelliscope to get there and do a reverse star hop so you know what to look for, taking notes and then the next night try it via star hopping.

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azure1961p
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: JayinUT]
      #5458999 - 10/07/12 09:35 AM

You may very well have scanned over it. I had difficulty but repeated success under magnitude 6.2 skys with an 8" with a 26mm ocular yielding 70x. More than enough to frame it. Alas not even a hint of that beautiful distlane.

If you have it,. and you should, try using a 25mm ocular or 32mm for that matter. At 18mm your field is a little narrow for a finder eyepiece. At anyrate with a 16"... lol, wish I had a 16" for this one under those same 6.2 skys. I know the dustlane wouldve popped.

Pete

Edited by azure1961p (10/07/12 09:36 AM)


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jack45
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5459136 - 10/07/12 11:27 AM

Thanks guys!

I do have a 26mm Meade Plossl and can use the TV paracorr.

Clear skies!


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joelimite
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: jack45]
      #5459208 - 10/07/12 12:07 PM

This galaxy was tricky for me from light polluted skies, even with my 12-inch. It's on the edge of visibility from my borderline orange/red zone skies. It's extremely faint and low contrast. I hope to observe it from dark skies this fall.

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blb
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: joelimite]
      #5459480 - 10/07/12 03:43 PM

NGC 891 was discovered by Karoline Herschel in 1783 using a 4.2 reflector telescope. Walter Scott Houston could see it with his 4-inch refractor and Steven O'Meara has a great sketch of this galaxy using a 4-inch refractor in his Caldwell book. Yet some people have trouble seeing this galaxy with an 18-inch scope, Why? Is it any surprise that the reason is light pollution? To have your best chance of seeing this galaxy you will find that you need the darkest skies you can find or have access to. Although this galaxy is easy to find, it may never be seen with much light pollution persent. So my sugestion is to stop looking for this galaxy at home untill you have found it from a dark sky site. That way you will know exactly what you are looking for and where it is located among the stars in your eyepiece. Once you know what this faint object look's like and where it is located you may find that it is visible at home with a much smaller scope but it will be very faint.

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Sasa
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: blb]
      #5459577 - 10/07/12 04:59 PM

Actually, it is not true that this galaxy was discovered by Karoline Herschel. I know it is in lots of books. But the galaxy was discovered by her brother William on 6 October 1784. As Steinecke in his book "Observing and Cataloguing Nebulae and Star Clusters" explains, this was a typo in the first William's catalogue. The comment about discovery by Caroline was moved by error by one line and should go to object V18 (M110) and not V19 (NGC891).

Otherwise I agree with you. For me, it was quite difficult to see it in 150mm reflector for the first time. Now I'm able to see it even in 80mm from my backyard.


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morceli
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: jack45]
      #5460577 - 10/08/12 12:39 PM

I saw NGC891 for the first time late this August. My notes say "long and thin. Rather faint."

I started from Almach and headed "down" just about 4 degrees. There is a mag 5.8 star and another star ~mag 6.7 to the "left" of that star. 891 is about half a degree away from this left star.


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MrJones
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: morceli]
      #5460714 - 10/08/12 02:04 PM

I find it from Almaak towards Algol but also relative to Mirach and Mirphak so I confirm what direction to go from Almaak. If that makes sense.

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omahaastro
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: MrJones]
      #5460898 - 10/08/12 04:14 PM

It's among a pretty rich field of stars... sort of 'hidden beneath'... easy to overlook. Relatively faint, but big and full of detail once you find it.

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Matt2003
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: omahaastro]
      #5461188 - 10/08/12 08:01 PM


I do not know if it is worth my while to try for this, at home, again. An orange sky seems a REAL killer as far as this one goes.
Still I might try tonight. At least I have a clear sky again!

Clear Skies,
Matt


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starrancher
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5461239 - 10/08/12 08:40 PM

It's a toughy . At a good dark sky site , I tried it with my 5" refractor . The glow of the galaxy was so dim that the only way I could confirm that I had it was by comparing star patterns around it with a photo .
I've yet to try it with my 8 " . No explanation as to why .


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cpr1
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5461246 - 10/08/12 08:42 PM

I agree it is very faint, but larger than say ngc4565 and not as much contrast as M104. It didn't seem to have much of a brighter core.
I most recently observed it from a yellow/green zone with a 10 inch. I could not resolve the dust lane, but it's large size and cigar shaped appearance is impressive.


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MikeRatcliff
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: cpr1]
      #5461454 - 10/08/12 11:52 PM

Hello, Jack,

Here is how I find it now: If you look at JayinUT's first diagram, the fairly bright star below and to the right of NGC 891 is actually a pair of brighter stars that can catch your attention in a finder when scanning between Almach and M34 (and cheating a little to the side). So looking at the pair and going from the brighter of the pair towards the dimmer and continuing that line gets you to a 6.7 mag star that is the dim star just below NGC891 in Jay's diagram. From there take a right turn, not quite 90 degrees,and you're there.

It does take a dark sky. The mag 6 sky should do it. Good luck!

Mike

Edited by MikeRatcliff (10/08/12 11:54 PM)


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David Knisely
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: cpr1]
      #5461522 - 10/09/12 01:28 AM

Quote:

I agree it is very faint, but larger than say ngc4565 and not as much contrast as M104. It didn't seem to have much of a brighter core.
I most recently observed it from a yellow/green zone with a 10 inch. I could not resolve the dust lane, but it's large size and cigar shaped appearance is impressive.




Actually, the two are fairly comparable in size. NGC 4565 is 15.9' arc x 1.8' arc, so it is slightly longer than NGC 891 (14.3' x 2.4'). The mean surface brightness of NGC 4565 (13.1 mag/sq. arc min.) is also notably brighter than that of NGC 891 (14.6 mag/sq. arc min.) and NGC 4565 has a more concentrated brighter core region, making it stand out a lot better than NGC 891. NGC 891 can be a tough object to view, but under a dark sky, I have glimpsed it in only an 80mm f/5 refractor. Clear skies to you.


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nytecam
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: blb]
      #5461610 - 10/09/12 04:43 AM

Due to poor eyes and skies I don't eyeball any more and was amazed how faint 891 appears even in fairly large scopes. Previously my brief exposures of DSOs seemed to mimic the visual appearance recorded here but for 891 it needed ~30sec [below] to show anything so it must be very faint My deep 891 here



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Astrojensen
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: nytecam]
      #5461621 - 10/09/12 05:51 AM

NGC 891 is not what I would consider a very faint galaxy, but it does have low surface brightness, similar, actually, to that of M33. Dark skies are most important, much more so than aperture. In the past, I used it as something of a test object for the observing conditions. If it wasn't reasonably well visible (albeit dim) in my 63mm Zeiss, the night was not so good. If it was bigger and more prominent than usual, the night was uncommonly good and suitable for observing faint objects.

When observing threshold objects, it's very important to locate their exact position without a shred of doubt. The only way this seems to be possible is by starhopping. You may locate the area with a GOTO mount, but you need to verify the position of the object with an accurate map or, better yet, a deep photograph. If the stars match, you've found the correct location, even if the object may not be immediately apparent. When the location is known, you can use your most sensitive part of your averted vision to observe it and try picking it out of the background. Keeping the averted vision steady and not letting your gaze wander around the field can be quite difficult, but it can be learned and mastered. Use a magnification that frames the object well and at the same time darken the sky background enough that your dark adaption can get better than at low power or with the naked eye.



The picture is based on observations with my 6" achromat w/binoviewer and magnifications between 48x and 120x under a mag 6.5 sky. Stars are shown to about mag 14 or so. In this scope, at 48x, it is a beautiful little spindle of light, floating behind the stars.

BTW, you can use the Milky Way to judge your local conditions for observing galaxies. If the Milky Way is washed out, so will galaxies be, for the most part. Especially edge-ons (like the MW!) and spirals. Their cores can often penetrate light pollution, but their disks often blend into the background.

Galaxies are like delicate butterflies. They can best be observed far from civilization and pollution, in pristine conditions.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Matt2003
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5462772 - 10/09/12 07:54 PM


Got out last night, but never got more than a nice view of the White Rose cluster & a couple other OCs. Long before I had the needed dark adaptation for galaxy viewing, lots of cirrus clouds moved in, from the north. Which was the area of sky I had intended to view
So oother than that & a final farewell to M.22, last night was another bust. No NGC 891. My sky did not look very dark either, to begin with.

Clear skies,
Matt


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Scanning4Comets
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5463310 - 10/10/12 04:48 AM

Ive seen 891 from mag 5.0 skies.....but sometimes looking at the EXACT spot does not help if the skies are not transparent enough. NGC-891 is very faint and difficult to see, but it can be done.

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Matt2003
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5464344 - 10/10/12 07:50 PM


Again, I can ALMOST call it, but not beyond ALL doubt.. And mag 5 skies were about what I had last night before more high clouds started moving in after 10 PM local time. Several nice DSOs & a lot of (faint) detail seen in M.31 but NOt NGC 891.
This thing is becoming my White Whale! Not sure LOL is apt, either.

Clear Skies,
Matt


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Dave MitskyModerator
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: David Knisely]
      #5464595 - 10/10/12 10:59 PM

Quote:

NGC 891 can be a tough object to view, but under a dark sky, I have glimpsed it in only an 80mm f/5 refractor.




I've also logged NGC 891 with an 80mm f/5 refractor but only from one of the darkest spots readily available to me, Cherry Springs State Park.

Dave Mitsky


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Photoner
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #5465090 - 10/11/12 10:12 AM

I "think" I saw this galaxy in my 12.5" the other night from a fairly LP backyard.

Study the star patterns in the photo and the flipped sketch above to learn the deep neighborhood of this tricky object.

Try various levels of squinting at the photo above to drop out some of the detail as it might appear visually though your scope with variable seeing & transparency conditions night to night.


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whirlpoolm51
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Photoner]
      #5465621 - 10/11/12 04:19 PM

You could be staring right at this galaxy and you wouldnt see it!!! hahahaha i have seen it numerous times from my backyard with a 12"" and my 16" and the first time i tried looking for it i couldnt find it , only to realize the next day that i was in the correct field and staring right at it!!!

LOW SURFACE BRIGHTNESS MEANS MORE THAN MAGNITUDE in light polluted skies hahaha

So when looking for this little buggger , pan slowly and first make sure you are in the correct field and then use alot of AV haha


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Matt2003
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: whirlpoolm51]
      #5465928 - 10/11/12 08:08 PM


Averted imagination needed? My first sighting probably was. I know this thing is located at the bottom of that little parallelogram just east & south of Almach.
ALMOST.. Almost..
I had better luck ( though not the views of last October!) with Gamma Cygni & the nebulae around it. Of course, I only tried a broadband filter & my OIII (which showed notthing) there.
One night, 891. One night, you will be MINE!

Clear Skies,
Matt


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Achernar
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5466174 - 10/11/12 11:47 PM Attachment (52 downloads)

Here is a drawing I made of NGC-891 with a 10-inch, under the murky skies of the Gulf Coast.The dark lane is more apparent through my 15-inch than the 10-inch, but it's still definite in the smaller telescope.

Taras


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Achernar]
      #5466368 - 10/12/12 05:45 AM Attachment (40 downloads)

Yep. It sure is a faint one indeed! This observation was with a 12.5" Orion DSE in 1997.

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Bill Barlow
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5467390 - 10/12/12 08:53 PM

I found this galaxy with my C14 while star hopping from M34. At our club's yellow site, it was faint with a noticeably brighter core region. It was also fairly large in the C14..overall a nice object to view.

Bill


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Matt2003
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Bill Barlow]
      #5472204 - 10/15/12 07:59 PM


I still wonder why Astronomy Magazine picked this one as one of the 100 Best DSOs, its surface brightness makes it much too tough to be an easy object to view.
I wonder how many times I am going to look right at this thing & not even see it. I must simply get to a decent dark site.

Clear Skies,
Matt


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starrancher
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5472217 - 10/15/12 08:07 PM

Quote:


I still wonder why Astronomy Magazine picked this one as one of the 100 Best DSOs, its surface brightness makes it much too tough to be an easy object to view.
I wonder how many times I am going to look right at this thing & not even see it. I must simply get to a decent dark site.

Clear Skies,
Matt




Yeah , no kidding .


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Matt Lindsey
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5473024 - 10/16/12 10:31 AM

Quote:


I still wonder why Astronomy Magazine picked this one as one of the 100 Best DSOs, its surface brightness makes it much too tough to be an easy object to view.
I wonder how many times I am going to look right at this thing & not even see it. I must simply get to a decent dark site.




Well, that's 100 best, not 100 brightest. IMO it's easily in the 100 best DSO's. I never pass a chance to view it in the Fall. The dust lane really starts to pop at 150X in my 12" scope. Once you find it, it becomes pretty easy to locate after that. Get to at least a yellow zone (SQM 21.0) to see it well.


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blb
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt Lindsey]
      #5473037 - 10/16/12 10:38 AM

Quote:

Well, that's 100 best, not 100 brightest.




How true! Many of the best objects to view are not the brightest objects in the sky and so it is with NGC 891.


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Matt2003
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: blb]
      #5473913 - 10/16/12 07:45 PM


Yes, I know they did not mean brightest, as they had a few very challenging things on that list. However, I am mystified by their statements about it being one of the "best galaxies" for a 10 inch scope. REALLY? Hmm, not much more power than my 8 inch..
And they neglected to mention anything about the very challenging low surface brightness here, though they did with several other objects. Which has been the cause of my frustration over the last three years.

Clear Skies,
Matt


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Astrojensen
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5474483 - 10/17/12 04:27 AM

Quote:

However, I am mystified by their statements about it being one of the "best galaxies" for a 10 inch scope.




I'd say the statement is probably true under dark skies. Under light polluted ones? Not so much.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Matt2003
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5475785 - 10/17/12 08:04 PM


Which, again, is not mentioned. No "You will need to get to a blue-Black Zone to adequately see this object".
I feel slightly miffed. But not enough NOT to try again tonight, after the cold front has moved through! LOL

Clear Skies,
Matt


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starrancher
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5475948 - 10/17/12 09:52 PM

Even in a blue zone it was barely detectable in my 5 inch .
Haven't tried it yet in the gray to black zone .


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cpr1
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5475952 - 10/17/12 09:54 PM

I feel your pain Matt. It took me going to a yellow/green zone before I could make it out. It is large as far as edge on galaxies go and one side always seems brighter than the other. Almost like seeing only half the galaxy sometimes. This is in a 10 inch scope.

It is faint, so if the background is grayish and not black then that won't help. I think all of those top 100's are based on excellent skies.

In my 12 from home I can't see ngc 891, m33, m74, or m97. That's in a red zone or maybe worse.


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droid
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: nytecam]
      #5476578 - 10/18/12 09:21 AM

Any one out there know where one might find a telrad chart to print out for this object?

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bremms
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: droid]
      #5476927 - 10/18/12 01:08 PM

My backyard is red-orange and I tried with my newly cleaned C8. I really couldn't see it for a good while and I remebered from MANY years ago exactly where it is compared to the orange star nearby. Went back later and saw a hint of center maybe.... The C8 doesn't have great contrast. I used to spot in my 6" reflector from a green zone. It popped right out in my 10" with a Zambuto quality mirror. Back then it was closer to a blue site.

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mnev326
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: bremms]
      #5477179 - 10/18/12 03:04 PM

I observed NGC891 for the first time this year on Tuesday night. My observing site is in an orange zone in New Jersey. The scope I was using was my 15in dob. I located it with my 27pan(70x), then I swapped to my 13ethos(146x). The transparency was above average. I could not make out the dust lane. In the past I've observed it with my 10in dob at the same site. If the transparency is not above average to excellent it is a no show.

Mark


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auriga
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: jack45]
      #5479323 - 10/19/12 07:09 PM

Quote:

Been looking for NGC891 for two years. Not sure I've found it as of yet. Is it located between the star Almach and M34? If not where from the star Almach should I look (north,south,east or west of Almach). How should it look in a 12" or 16" scope?

Reply:
Here is one way to find it:
It's 2/3 of the way from Almach to Algol and about a degree up. I can see it in reasonably dark skies but it isn't bright, it's possible to miss it. The photos of it make it look a lot brighter than is seems to me visually.
Bill

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Matt2003
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: auriga]
      #5479345 - 10/19/12 07:23 PM


On the 17th I tried again. Could ALMOST call it, but not enough. YET...

Clear Skies,
Matt


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bremms
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5479779 - 10/20/12 12:42 AM

Spotted it tonite in the C8 just barely.. I looked at the star patterns in the wider field pics and knew RIGHT where it was. Just came inside. Faint faint little streak/ smudge.

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Matt2003
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: bremms]
      #5480575 - 10/20/12 03:15 PM


I know the field stars by heart now, it does not take me 2 seconds to get there. now seeing the Beast, well...

Clear Skies,
Matt


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Scanning4Comets
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5481553 - 10/21/12 08:42 AM

Quote:

Any one out there know where one might find a telrad chart to print out for this object?




Droid,

You'll need a much more detailed map to find NGC-891. I used a page from Uranometria 2000 and found it that way last week. It was very "ghostly" looking in my 10" and a lot easier to see in my friend's 16". I literally photcopied EVERY PAGE from Uranometria 2000 and put the pages into transparent page holders. I then use a small magnet to hold it to my metal scope tube and I turn the map to see field stars just like I see them in my low power 38mm Orion Q70 finder eyepiece until I reach the target. I then switch to higher power to inspect the object.

Good luck!


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Starman1
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: blb]
      #5484014 - 10/22/12 05:05 PM

Quote:

NGC 891 was discovered by Caroline Herschel in 1783 using a 4.2 reflector telescope. Walter Scott Houston could see it with his 4-inch refractor and Steven O'Meara has a great sketch of this galaxy using a 4-inch refractor in his Caldwell book. Yet some people have trouble seeing this galaxy with an 18-inch scope, Why? Is it any surprise that the reason is light pollution? To have your best chance of seeing this galaxy you will find that you need the darkest skies you can find or have access to. Although this galaxy is easy to find, it may never be seen with much light pollution present. So my suggestion is to stop looking for this galaxy at home until you have found it from a dark sky site. That way you will know exactly what you are looking for and where it is located among the stars in your eyepiece. Once you know what this faint object looks like and where it is located you may find that it is visible at home with a much smaller scope but it will be very faint.




Regardless of discoverer, my first view of this galaxy was in 1963-1964 with a 4.25" reflector. Thirty years later, I had no problem seeing it with a 4" SCT.
The key? Very dark skies (mag. 6.2+ in the first instance, 6.8+ in the second).
In my 12.5", it's magnificent--not only because of its size and details (like the central dust lane), but also because it is in a spectacularly rich field of stars. There are very few galaxies that are in rich fields, and that makes NGC891 worth the look.
I put its surface brightness higher than NGC247, but below that of NGC253, both of which are visible during October nights.
It goes without saying you should not try for this galaxy when there is Moon in the sky.


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Matt2003
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Starman1]
      #5484250 - 10/22/12 07:59 PM


I found NGC 253 relatively easy in a 25mm EP on the 8XTi. Too much magnification seemed to make it invisible, but at 48X it was pretty large & almost obvious. So far, aside from M.31, my favorite Fall galaxy.
Some day, NGC 891, some day..

Clear Skies,
Matt


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CosmoSat
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5485659 - 10/23/12 05:02 PM Attachment (24 downloads)

Me and my observing buddies hve seen this galaxy frm outside the suburbs of our city located at 19N with an 8" scope. There are these small light domes around the horizon where we observe frm and a big one at the NW. The faintest stars visible at zenith are about mag 5, sometimes 5.5 mag. The skies are pretty dark overhead and the milkyway is easily seen.

Almost everytime that we hve observed this galaxy when it was close to the meridian..the faintest star visible with the naked eye near the galaxy was 60 And (Hip 10340). Tho the hop is frm Almach to the 5.8 mag double (HIP 11090) as seen in the finderscope. With direct vision, the two ends of the galaxy are not visible...just the central part is...but with averted vision..it appears really long and a bit broad than what it looks likes in pictures..and hvnt observed the dustlane yet. The first time I saw it...what came to my mind was M82..it was almost like the ghost of the Cigar Galaxy!, and not like ngc 4565 frm what I had read.

M33 and M74 can also be easily located through the 8" frm here in the above mentioned viewing conditions, NGC 253 too is very easy and bright frm our latitude.

In my opinion, what might be making NGC891 difficult for some viewing with a small scope is not just the low surface brightness..but the foreground star that appears imposed very close to the center of the galaxy. It might be a likely cause of distraction..similar to the blinking planetary nebula. That star seems to be the likely culprit. Lookout for nebulousity around the star arrowed in the chart below.

Its a bit surprising to me that many ppl are not able to see it with a 12" that too frm dark skies! (since we hve seen it with a smaller scope and not very dark skies) Maybe it takes some practice to observe objects with low surface brightness. Atleast the usual techniques for observing objects having low surface brightness like tapping the scope to make the object move in the field of view shud help detect it..

Hope the attached chart might be of some help..


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stratocaster
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5485839 - 10/23/12 06:42 PM

Quote:


Some day, NGC 891, some day..





Matt, I remember a comment you left on another thread regarding NGC 891. I didn't realize you've been trying to track this down for a while.

Yes, dark skies are the answer. In Death Valley (grey zone?) with a 10" zambuto NGC 891 was not difficult at all - even in less than transparent skies. I thought it looked like a flying saucer and the dust lane was evident. I wish now I would have thrown a bit more power at it to see if I could have pulled out more detail.


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Matt2003
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: stratocaster]
      #5485911 - 10/23/12 07:29 PM


I thought I had seen it two years ago, but I have come to doubt myself on THAT observation. It really has become something of a frustration for me, here at home. Every dark, clear night I go out & near the end of my session hop over to Almach & out to the double, then down to that trapezoid (parallelogram??) of faint stars. And still, no clear sightings of NGC 891. I must note M.109 is also pretty hard from here.. In Ft. Davis at 2010 TSP it was absurdly easy. Of course, the fact that NGC 404 was being a bit difficult should have told me all I needed to know about my chances on the 17th. Well, there is always next week, I suppose. LOL

Clear Skies,
Matt


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stratocaster
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: droid]
      #5486408 - 10/24/12 02:32 AM

Quote:

Any one out there know where one might find a telrad chart to print out for this object?




This is what I used: http://www.saguaroastro.org/content/db/Book110BestNGC.pdf


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uniondrone
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5487269 - 10/24/12 04:23 PM

Quote:


I thought I had seen it two years ago, but I have come to doubt myself on THAT observation. It really has become something of a frustration for me, here at home. Every dark, clear night I go out & near the end of my session hop over to Almach & out to the double, then down to that trapezoid (parallelogram??) of faint stars. And still, no clear sightings of NGC 891. I must note M.109 is also pretty hard from here.. In Ft. Davis at 2010 TSP it was absurdly easy. Of course, the fact that NGC 404 was being a bit difficult should have told me all I needed to know about my chances on the 17th. Well, there is always next week, I suppose. LOL






Hi Matt, from my orange zone observing site I find NGC 891 to be a bit tougher than M109. I have seen both in my 10" dob, but NGC 891 seems to resemble a faint elongated band of dim light. It is very easy to pass over without seeing at this level of light pollution and aperture. I can see it with direct vision, but only faintly. At this same site and same scope, NGC 404 is by comparison immediately obvious to me. If NGC 404 was being troublesome, NGC 891 might have been out of reach. Don't give up and be sure to try different magnifications. NGC 891 might respond better to lower mags than most galaxies.


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David Knisely
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: droid]
      #5487421 - 10/24/12 06:06 PM Attachment (29 downloads)

Quote:

Any one out there know where one might find a telrad chart to print out for this object?




OK, here is it in dark mode from MEGASTAR:


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David Knisely
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: David Knisely]
      #5487423 - 10/24/12 06:08 PM Attachment (25 downloads)

And here is the Telrad chart in MEGASTAR's chart mode:

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Matt2003
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: David Knisely]
      #5487556 - 10/24/12 07:56 PM


David,

Thanks, David. Because, I have actually been upping my magnification trying to see NGC 891! Maybe that is my error, as it was clear NGC 253 did not like high magnification in my Orange sky.
I will wait until Luna is out of the way again & try a lower magnification. I am not expecting anything except a sliver of very dim grey anyway, still its been two years. And would be ironic if that logged sighting which was called into doubt was actually a real sighting. Irony, hmm..

Clear Skies,
Matt


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blb
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Matt2003]
      #5487818 - 10/24/12 11:05 PM

Matt, what magnification have you been using to try and find NGC 891? Like NGC 253 your best bet for finding NGC 891 would be your 25mm EP in the Orion XT8i dob. A magnification of 48X seems to be a good place to start. I use my 24mm eyepiece in my Orion XT10i at a magnification of 50x to find this galaxy. Again though, with light pollution, this is a tough one to find on anything less than the best of nights.

Trying to follow your star hop in my Uranonetria 2000 sky atlas, When you get to the faint stars that make up the parallegram, your only about two thirds of the way there. It is much easier to center Almach in your field-of-view and sit back and wait for 18 minutes. After waiting 18 minutes, NGC 891 should be almost in the center of your field of view. NGC 891 is located 03 deg 20 min east of Almach.


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azure1961p
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: blb]
      #5489389 - 10/25/12 10:28 PM

Ive found much beyond 90x isnt really favorable. But thats with respect to typical country skys in new enland. Magnification like 200x or more, for my eyes would blot it out of existence. So much is personal here but thats where I am on it.

Pete


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Astrojensen
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5489708 - 10/26/12 05:22 AM

Higher magnifications in the 150x - 300x range on, say, a 12", really helps in making the dust band visible. It is much easier at 150x than at 100x in my 12". That does require good conditions. If the conditions are mediocre or worse, even at a dark site, the galaxy will be very diffuse and sort of just blend in with the background. High magnifications from dark sites on good nights can really bring out the best in galaxies.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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stratocaster
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5490154 - 10/26/12 12:39 PM

My observation notes show that I maxed out power on this object at a dark sky site at 104x. I'm wasn't bright enough to try to push the power a bit more. It was still great at 104x, though.

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John K
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: stratocaster]
      #5510847 - 11/08/12 11:36 PM Attachment (38 downloads)

here is my capture from this summer.It is always on the list to look at every year.

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The Mekon
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: John K]
      #6232698 - 12/04/13 04:14 AM

My apologies for reviving this old thread, but it has been a big encouragement to me. Last night I was determined to track down this galaxy from my southern hemisphere location. So much so that I drove an extra 20 miles west to a very dark rural site to make the attempt. I might say now I was only using a 106AT refractor, but this has not stopped me tracking very northerly objects before. Needless to say, despite a full half hour carefully observing the precise location, I came up with nothing. 891 culminates about 131 degrees above my horizon (34.30S) so now after reading this thread I know why! We only have a very few months down here to view these well published northern objects so I think I will now wait until next year to attempt to track this down, and then with my 18" reflector.

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kfiscus
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: The Mekon]
      #6234300 - 12/04/13 09:47 PM

Don't apologize for bringing this great thread back out.

I appreciate 891 for its ghostly beauty. It's big, shapely, and demure(?). Sublime for sure. I like its obvious distance behind the rich star field.


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mak17
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Re: Help Finding NGC891 new [Re: kfiscus]
      #6246272 - 12/11/13 02:42 AM

Dark skies as in 21.8 on SQM is what I need to see it well with direct vision in my 12". Under 20.3 SQM it is nice at around 150x but is an averted vision object.

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