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Equipment Discussions >> ATM, Optics and DIY Forum

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MessiToM
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/21/09

Loc: Huntingdon PA
car valve springs in cell : ) new
      #5466034 - 10/11/12 09:35 PM

Can you have to stiff a spring on your collimation bolts? I ask because Iam using valve springs from a leftover engine head's valvetrain in my project. I thought it was a neat idea.

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Happy-Idiot
Stuck with it
*****

Reged: 04/06/06

Loc: 3rd Rock
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: MessiToM]
      #5466038 - 10/11/12 09:41 PM

Would tightening the bolts be considered a valve lash adjustment or collimation? Let us know how it works, good idea.

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MessiToM
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/21/09

Loc: Huntingdon PA
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: Happy-Idiot]
      #5466039 - 10/11/12 09:44 PM



Works so far


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Pinbout
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: MessiToM]
      #5466069 - 10/11/12 10:12 PM

if you want to use springs on your collimation bolt, don't use them on the teeter totters.

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hottr6
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/28/09

Loc: 7,500', Magdalena Mtns, NM
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: MessiToM]
      #5466120 - 10/11/12 11:02 PM

Quote:

Can you have to stiff a spring on your collimation bolts? I ask because Iam using valve springs from a leftover engine head's valvetrain in my project. I thought it was a neat idea.



My gut tells me it waaaaay overkill. Valve springs have rates measured in hundreds of lbs; Mirror cells need only rates measured in 10s of lbs.

You'll need really strong fingers to collimate.... made even tougher with cold fingers at night.


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MessiToM
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/21/09

Loc: Huntingdon PA
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: hottr6]
      #5466135 - 10/11/12 11:10 PM

O overkill for sure! I just wanted to tie in my other hoby (building engines) somehow in this scope build and thought it was clever.

Very good point about tuff collimation with cold fingers.


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cheapersleeper
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: hottr6]
      #5466162 - 10/11/12 11:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Can you have to stiff a spring on your collimation bolts? I ask because Iam using valve springs from a leftover engine head's valvetrain in my project. I thought it was a neat idea.



My gut tells me it waaaaay overkill. Valve springs have rates measured in hundreds of lbs; Mirror cells need only rates measured in 10s of lbs.

You'll need really strong fingers to collimate.... made even tougher with cold fingers at night.




I agree that valve springs may be too much, but I do think that the stiffest springs that allow you to turn the knobs are the best way to go regardless of whether it is cold or not. Much better to have too much than too little tension. As mirrors get bigger and heavier we have to make sure that regardless of the orientation of the optical tube, the springs are strong enough not to compress. If it's hard to turn the collimation bolts, use a bolt with a bigger head.

Regards,
Brad


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ausastronomerModerator
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/30/03

Loc: Kiama NSW (Australia)
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: cheapersleeper]
      #5466222 - 10/12/12 12:52 AM

This will be the only amateur scope, I know of, that you will need a torque wrench or rattle gun to collimate

Cheers


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John Carruthers
Skiprat
*****

Reged: 02/02/07

Loc: Kent, UK
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: MessiToM]
      #5466314 - 10/12/12 04:02 AM

I've used bike valve springs in a cell, and old mower motor springs. The strongest I've used were the inner coils from Cooper S blue double valve springs (70 lb/inch)the red ones (90lb/inch) were just too much.

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JasonBurry
sage


Reged: 04/27/12

Loc: Cape Spencer, NB, Canada
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: John Carruthers]
      #5466438 - 10/12/12 07:26 AM

A friend has Fiat valve springs on his 13.5" cell. Works well, but stiff to adjust.

I'd rather have too strong a spring installed than too weak.

J


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: JasonBurry]
      #5466517 - 10/12/12 08:57 AM

The springs in my 12.5 inch Novak cell are quite stiff and there is a pair each bolt. I suspect they are similar in stiffness to a valve spring. The main thing is that cell needs to be able to handle the springs..

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Pinbout
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: MessiToM]
      #5466561 - 10/12/12 09:34 AM

with the spring under the teeter totter/collimation bolt, you will always have collimation issues as you rotate thru the alt axis, from zenith to horizon.

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MessiToM
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/21/09

Loc: Huntingdon PA
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5466732 - 10/12/12 11:40 AM

Well that's unfortunate ^

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Gastrol
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/04/11

Loc: los angeles
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: ausastronomer]
      #5466966 - 10/12/12 03:44 PM

Quote:

This will be the only amateur scope, I know of, that you will need a torque wrench or rattle gun to collimate

Cheers


...and a feeler gauge...

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jgraham
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) [Re: Gastrol]
      #5467061 - 10/12/12 04:43 PM

I think that I'd go with a push-pull system before using springs with this much force. But, to each their own...

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Ed Holland
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 06/16/10

Loc: San Jose, CA and Oxford, UK
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: jgraham]
      #5467184 - 10/12/12 05:58 PM

Surely, springs from a Nova would be most appropriate...



Edited by Ed Holland (10/12/12 06:00 PM)


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Binojunky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/25/10

Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: Ed Holland]
      #5467227 - 10/12/12 06:28 PM

Not wishing to kill a scope builders jest for the hobby but just once in a while things get a bit silly, car valve springs of all things, not needed and a crazy way to go,JMPOV,DA.

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MessiToM
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/21/09

Loc: Huntingdon PA
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: Binojunky]
      #5467255 - 10/12/12 06:54 PM

What's it gona hurt? Other than my thumbs possibly ^

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MessiToM
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/21/09

Loc: Huntingdon PA
Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: Ed Holland]
      #5467306 - 10/12/12 07:26 PM

Quote:

Surely, springs from a Nova would be most appropriate...






Nope, just mopar springs here lol


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kfrederick
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: car valve springs in cell : ) new [Re: MessiToM]
      #5467310 - 10/12/12 07:31 PM

I used valve springs on my 20 newt. I built it in 1992. A 3/8 bolt compress them easy. It holds alignment very good the mirror weighs 50 lbs .A weaker spring I think would not be as good .I put them on a plate not on the cross bars of the cell.

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