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minos
member


Reged: 10/17/12

Re: origin of life new [Re: llanitedave]
      #6033010 - 08/18/13 02:43 PM

If life is a system of random chemical reactions and it is our perspective (ch. reactions as reference frame) observing this system from the inside, the key element that defines what we perceive as life ,then some more questions arise.
Question: How can chemical reactions that occur in a random way, lead to the formation of the structures we see and perceive as animals, plants, organisms, etc. Why don’t we see a random soup and mixture of gasses and fluids?

Answer:
If you put some living cells inside a flask in the lab and leave it untouched for some days, you realize that the difference between living cells and dead cells is this: Dead cells float in the fluid while living cells are strongly attached to the flask walls. It is therefore a property of living cells to adhere and stick with on another and to surfaces.
Similarly many random chemical reactions will eventually lead to some reactions that gives some molecules the ability to adhere with one another and also to surfaces. These reactions will eventualy prevail and become the basis for further complexity, because the chemical compounds will not go away and lead to dead ends. This makes the process multifocal rather than diffuse. Thereafter, these focal sites of increasing complexity will interact with one another and the systems with the greatest capacity to survive will continue happening and will become more complicated, leading eventually to what we perceive as natural selection… The rest is already known..


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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
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Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: origin of life new [Re: minos]
      #6033100 - 08/18/13 03:43 PM

Did you not read the 200 previous posts in this thread?

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Mister T
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: origin of life new [Re: llanitedave]
      #6033468 - 08/18/13 07:31 PM

anyone who says they did is lying....

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minos
member


Reged: 10/17/12

Re: origin of life new [Re: Mister T]
      #6036473 - 08/20/13 01:07 PM

lol!! Believe it or not i read almost all of the posts and it was not difficult at all! I should also acknowledge that some of them were very helpful for me to evolve my insights, despite the disagreement. I think this is another good example about how online collaborative tools can be helpful..

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minos
member


Reged: 10/17/12

Re: origin of life new [Re: minos]
      #6199457 - 11/17/13 06:34 AM

I have read recently that we are whatever happened to our anchestors. There is some kind of memory in our body and events that happened to our predecessors in a way remain in our own body. To me,this cannot be explained solely by mutations in the absolute King(DNA)that pass to the next generation and slightly differentiates a strictly programmed process. On the contrary, it suggests that the reactions of today are the direct results of the reactions that preexisted. DNA is not the sole ruler, but only a small puzzle in the whole chemical reaction system. The idea that it can stand alone and give birth to the origin of life is a misconception of us, due to our subjective point of view as viewing the system from inside. To me,what gives DNA a momentum is the already existing system of the other reactions.

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derangedhermit
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/07/09

Loc: USA
Re: origin of life new [Re: minos]
      #6200692 - 11/17/13 08:57 PM

Vick? Is that you?

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scopethis
Postmaster
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Reged: 05/30/08

Loc: Kingman, Ks
Re: origin of life new [Re: derangedhermit]
      #6201432 - 11/18/13 10:54 AM

Sagan's "The Dragons of Eden"...

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
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Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: origin of life new [Re: scopethis]
      #6201445 - 11/18/13 11:02 AM

I read that book back in the '70s. I liked it at the time, but Sagan was speculating beyond his expertise.

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minos
member


Reged: 10/17/12

Re: origin of life new [Re: llanitedave]
      #6209121 - 11/22/13 10:33 AM

amazing Carl Sagan!!

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minos
member


Reged: 10/17/12

Re: origin of life new [Re: minos]
      #6307603 - 01/12/14 06:57 AM

In every conversation i hear the argument that our solar system is located in a precise place in the galaxy, earth is located in a precise distance from the sun, has a precise size, etc. I think that we forget the most important fact: that we are the reference frame. Everything in the universe has a precise and unique history and it is very difficult to be repeated exactly. If earth was a bit closer to the sun we wouldn't have been here the way we are now in the first place. We would have been something else, somewhere else in a different way. And in that case if we studied physical phenomena, we again would have found precise phenomena that would have been difficult to be repeated as well. I even showed previously that even random chemical reactions can be perceived as sophisticated if the reference frame is a resulting sum of reactions inside the whole system, and judges everything from the inside. But is exactly what we are?

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
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Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: origin of life new [Re: minos]
      #6307828 - 01/12/14 10:33 AM

There's no precision involved. The habitable zone of the galaxy is actually pretty broad, as is the habitable zone of the solar system. The range of planets that support life is also apparently, at least, pretty broad.

Yes, if things had been even slightly different, we wouldn't be the same species we are today, but that applies also to every contingency that's occurred on this planet since the beginning, and in our individual lives as well. If I hadn't happened to see that Edmund Scientific catalog back in 1969, I wouldn't be the person I am today either.


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