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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Sketching

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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Jupiter 2012 11 01
      #5499094 - 11/01/12 09:49 AM

Hey all. I visit these forums regularly, but post infrequently these days. I'm in the early stages of trying (again) to get out and actually sketch Jupiter on a regular basis.

At any rate here is my feeble attempt at the Europa shadow transit from today (6:00 am EST). Seeing was pretty bad, but could actually see stars (first semi-clear morning since Hurricane Sandy). Thus I made the effort to set up the scope and do a quick rendition. I'm curious to see if anyone else agrees with the observation.

110mm Newtonian reflector
10.5mm Abbe ortho (86x)
scanned pencil sketch/clean up in Photoshop



I think I've only done around a dozen or so sketches of Jupiter in the past six years. I have yet to come up with a repeated method for doing this. With 35 years of illustration background you think I'd be better at this. Constructive criticism is welcome.


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
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Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: Chopin]
      #5499153 - 11/01/12 10:24 AM

Jason, I hope to see more of your work. Glad I picked up sketching last year, it's rather an enjoyable aspect of our hobby. Personally, I prefer it to imaging - in that it's a very manual labor of love. And it requires patients and actually teaches us to look closer at our subject...preferably in good seeing. (Imaging is a labor of love, too, and require patients and a different skill set, of course. Anyway...)

Look, we have all seen Jupiter in Ant IV seeing. What can I say, you nailed it.

What's striking, however, is you mentioned some mild undulation in the NTB under those conditions. Wish I could comment on them, but it speaks to what you would have seen in better conditions. I am not familiar enough with Jupiter at various times UTC to know what CM you are observing. We could look it up. But, surly those are festoons. There seems to be a lot of them this season.

Something struck me, a question, one night under similar conditions. Does seeing affect color? Probably...just not sure how. Anywhooo...

I find both polar regions essentially featureless, too. On occasion, there are some faint bands. But you noted some darkening, that's incredible, actually. There are some, but I found it takes very good moments of seeing just to glimpse them.

On a method, I dunno. Your pencil work looks quite good. I am sure you will fall into a suitable method. I use PC paint programs because I do not have a scanner at home. When I was working, scanning was easy...but not at 2AM when I am trying to get my sketch up. So, I fell into using PC paint programs. You will find a method. I hope.

Criticism? A dozen sketches in six years is not enough, especially for someone with 35 years of illustrating experience. If you wish, you can calculate the CM here.

http://www.arksky.org/tools.htm


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cildarithModerator
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 08/26/04

Loc: San Diego, CA
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: Chopin]
      #5499156 - 11/01/12 10:26 AM

Looks great Jason, nothing feeble there at all.

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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: Asbytec]
      #5499329 - 11/01/12 12:12 PM

Quote:

Jason, I hope to see more of your work. Glad I picked up sketching last year, it's rather an enjoyable aspect of our hobby. Personally, I prefer it to imaging - in that it's a very manual labor of love. And it requires patients and actually teaches us to look closer at our subject...preferably in good seeing. (Imaging is a labor of love, too, and require patients and a different skill set, of course. Anyway...)

Look, we have all seen Jupiter in Ant IV seeing. What can I say, you nailed it.

What's striking, however, is you mentioned some mild undulation in the NTB under those conditions. Wish I could comment on them, but it speaks to what you would have seen in better conditions. I am not familiar enough with Jupiter at various times UTC to know what CM you are observing. We could look it up. But, surly those are festoons. There seems to be a lot of them this season.

Something struck me, a question, one night under similar conditions. Does seeing affect color? Probably...just not sure how. Anywhooo...

I find both polar regions essentially featureless, too. On occasion, there are some faint bands. But you noted some darkening, that's incredible, actually. There are some, but I found it takes very good moments of seeing just to glimpse them.

On a method, I dunno. Your pencil work looks quite good. I am sure you will fall into a suitable method. I use PC paint programs because I do not have a scanner at home. When I was working, scanning was easy...but not at 2AM when I am trying to get my sketch up. So, I fell into using PC paint programs. You will find a method. I hope.

Criticism? A dozen sketches in six years is not enough, especially for someone with 35 years of illustrating experience. If you wish, you can calculate the CM here.

http://www.arksky.org/tools.htm





Thank you very much, Norme. I enjoy the tedious process of waiting for details to present themselves. And, frankly, sketching does force us to see things we may otherwise overlook while simply glancing.

Regarding color, IME the aperture of the instrument makes a large difference, as does the transparency of the sky. I'm sure seeing plays a part, as well. Rare nights are those with good seeing, transparency...and no Moon. I've done sketches with my [now disassembled] 12" dob that revealed much in the way of rust, rose, beige and cool gray. This morning, with my 4", I'd say the only color I recall was an overall gentle yellowish warmth. I am in the throes of a 10" Newtonian reflector project, which will be semi optimized for subtle contrast work (26% CO, downward active cooling, flocking in every nook and cranny, baffled focuser, etc...). It will be GEM mounted (like my 4") to appease my desires of sketching. I do hope it will bring some of the colors back that I am used to seeing on the Jovian surface.

I do have a question for you. You mention the "CM", which I assume to be the Central Meridian. What does this mean for Jupiter observing? Is is a way of cataloging my sketch time with better reference accuracy? I used the two links at the top of the page you "linked", but I don't really understand the numbers it gives me.

Thanks again!


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
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Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: cildarith]
      #5499333 - 11/01/12 12:14 PM

Quote:

Looks great Jason, nothing feeble there at all.




Thanks, Eric.


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
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Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: Chopin]
      #5499374 - 11/01/12 12:47 PM

The reason I asked about color is because the Festoons are quite blue, stunning actually. But seems only when the seeing settles. Color in a 6" is very unsaturated almost grey tone. But it is there. Just a thought having coffee observing Jupiter the other night.

Yes, Central Meridian. I guess it just helps pin down where we were looking. Actually Jupiter has three measurements, much to do with the varying speeds of rotation in different latitudes, as I understand it. It's really not necessary to put it on there. I put them in sometimes, if someone wants a reference.

Nuther question...you mentioned the moon being close. Jupiter is darn close tonight. Really the moon didn't seem to bother it, but I am sure it must. You got extra photons coming in on top of those from Jupiter. There should be some contrast loss, even if not detectable?

A 10" GEM mounted...sweet, Jason.

Just got back form watching the GRS rotate over the preceding limb. Might sketch tomorrow. Tired to glimpse the Cat's Paw, but settled for the 3 Astronauts.


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Heidescoper
sage


Reged: 11/21/10

Loc: Niedersachsen, Germany
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: Asbytec]
      #5499408 - 11/01/12 02:20 PM

hi Jason,

nice work with 110mm !
The transit looks great.

Bye Christian


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: Asbytec]
      #5499481 - 11/01/12 03:05 PM

Quote:

The reason I asked about color is because the Festoons are quite blue, stunning actually. But seems only when the seeing settles. Color in a 6" is very unsaturated almost grey tone. But it is there. Just a thought having coffee observing Jupiter the other night.

Yes, Central Meridian. I guess it just helps pin down where we were looking. Actually Jupiter has three measurements, much to do with the varying speeds of rotation in different latitudes, as I understand it. It's really not necessary to put it on there. I put them in sometimes, if someone wants a reference.

Nuther question...you mentioned the moon being close. Jupiter is darn close tonight. Really the moon didn't seem to bother it, but I am sure it must. You got extra photons coming in on top of those from Jupiter. There should be some contrast loss, even if not detectable?

A 10" GEM mounted...sweet, Jason.

Just got back form watching the GRS rotate over the preceding limb. Might sketch tomorrow. Tired to glimpse the Cat's Paw, but settled for the 3 Astronauts.




Thanks for the CM explanation.

The moon doesn't really effect the 4" scope directly...well, not too much. Scatter is kept to a minimum thanks to a well baffled tube. I think it was the continually passing thin cloud cover which was glowing from the Moon light that disturbed the view. Although it did occasionally help to reduce the contrast of the NEB in such poor seeing, which is how I was able to finally confirm the trailing bulge/festoon in the image. For the first few minutes of observation I only saw the second and third bulges.

BTW, I just got back from a bicycle ride, coffee sounds good.


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
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Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: Heidescoper]
      #5499490 - 11/01/12 03:09 PM

Quote:

hi Jason,

nice work with 110mm !
The transit looks great.

Bye Christian




Thank you, Christian. I plan on eeking as much out of this scope as I can until I get my 10" off the ground. For a small newt it doesn't do too badly: 1/10 PTV primary, 1/23 PTV secondary, 22% central obstruction...if I could only get some laminar airflow in this darn atmosphere.


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Rutilus
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/17/10

Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: Chopin]
      #5499627 - 11/01/12 05:03 PM

Excellent sketch of Jupiter.

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niteskystargazer
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/05/09

Loc: 41-43'-28" N 87-42'-39" W
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: Chopin]
      #5499669 - 11/01/12 05:42 PM

Hi Jason,

Very good sketch of Jupiter .

CS,KLU,

,

Tom


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frank5817
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/13/06

Loc: Illinois
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: niteskystargazer]
      #5500054 - 11/01/12 10:22 PM

Hello Jason,

This is a fine sketch of Jupiter. Always nice to catch a Moon shadow on the clouds.

Frank


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
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Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: frank5817]
      #5500104 - 11/01/12 10:46 PM

Jason, don't get me started on baffles. (Long story.)

Laminar airflow? Move to the tropics. Or Miami is supposed to have it, too, so you're pretty much tropical. I am in the far east at 16 degrees north. Dry season rules with 8/10 seeing or better most nights (at least last year.)


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Andrev
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Reged: 02/08/11

Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: Asbytec]
      #5500110 - 11/01/12 10:49 PM

Jason.

This sketch is fabulous. Look so real and the transit is excellent. You are very talented, pleasse keep going with more sketches of the planet. Eager to see Saturn.

Andre.


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astronz59
sage


Reged: 09/15/10

Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: Chopin]
      #5500207 - 11/02/12 12:02 AM

Far from feeble my friend... A lovelly rendition and some interesting comments to boot. Keep up the good work!

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Jef De Wit
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/06/09

Loc: Hove, Belgium
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: Chopin]
      #5500385 - 11/02/12 04:29 AM

Looks really fine to me.

Quote:

Constructive criticism is welcome



Next time you can use a template that isn't a perfect circle.


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: Jef De Wit]
      #5500709 - 11/02/12 11:06 AM

Thanks to everyone for the kind words! Here's a close mockup of what it looked like at the eyepiece...just for fun. I'm not sure how accurate the scale is, given the fact that I created the view from memory this morning.



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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: Chopin]
      #5500710 - 11/02/12 11:07 AM

Rutilus, Tom, thank you.

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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: frank5817]
      #5500725 - 11/02/12 11:14 AM

Quote:

Hello Jason,

This is a fine sketch of Jupiter. Always nice to catch a Moon shadow on the clouds.

Frank




Thank you, Frank. FWIW, I created an Excel spreadsheet for myself to keep track of all shadow transits in my area for November. I don't have the luxury of hitting the scope every day, but knowing when the shadows fly by gives me more of an excuse to squeeze in some viewing time.


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jupiter 2012 11 01 new [Re: Asbytec]
      #5500733 - 11/02/12 11:17 AM

Quote:

Jason, don't get me started on baffles. (Long story.)

Laminar airflow? Move to the tropics. Or Miami is supposed to have it, too, so you're pretty much tropical. I am in the far east at 16 degrees north. Dry season rules with 8/10 seeing or better most nights (at least last year.)




Trust me, between my love of planets and my obsession with bird photography I'd love very much to have a place in Florida. I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought about it more than once.


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