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prestonrich
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/01/07

Loc: Washington DC Mayland suburbs
How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200?
      #5516309 - 11/12/12 04:40 PM

After repeated searches here I still haven't found the most accepted procedure for sequentially and optimally tuning (internal/external) this DS system for visual use (fyi...I use a bino).

For example do I first focus then adjust the pressure tuner with the LS60F front etalon removed (to optimize proms), and then screw back on the front etalon to re-pressure tune/focus for surface contrast? If so is this process repeated for every viewing session? Seems like a lot of wear on the front etalon.

Do you back off the PT to equalize pressure for every session then screw back on...or only w/changes in altitude?

My add-on LS60F filter is on order.

Preston


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bill1234
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/21/11

Loc: NJ, USA
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: prestonrich]
      #5516332 - 11/12/12 05:05 PM

Tune SS then add DS and adjust it so reflection is just out of view...done

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prestonrich
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/01/07

Loc: Washington DC Mayland suburbs
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: bill1234]
      #5516453 - 11/12/12 06:22 PM

Bill--

Does that mean that when you re-focus on another area you have to take off the DS, re-focus, re-tune then add back on the DS and re-tune the top etalon again or do you somehow re-tune both together?


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jerwin
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 05/17/12

Loc: Romeoville IL
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: prestonrich]
      #5517063 - 11/12/12 11:41 PM

I leave my DS on my LS60 in my case. I do back the PT off before storing and transporting but I typically don't remove the DS at all. I don't know if I need to, but it's expensive enough I'd rather be safe than sorry.

When I view I get the disk into focus, then I twist the PT down until the proms start to show, twist a little more till I feel like I reached that sweet spot and then tune the DS until surface detail hits the sweet spot. I don't feel like the DS does anything to the focus. It does make the entire disk darker when double stacked, but that is what it is. I might tweak the PT and DS slightly during a viewing session, but typically I see no real improvement after messing with it, so I probalby end up where I started. I asjust the focus a hair here or there. I'm typically using a Baader zoom, not quite parfocal so I need some slight adjustments when changing zoom.

Jim


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prestonrich
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/01/07

Loc: Washington DC Mayland suburbs
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: jerwin]
      #5517554 - 11/13/12 09:34 AM

Great answer, Jim, thanks. Do you also move the altaz controls to move the viewed objects into the sweet spot? Does your DS reduce the clarity of the proms a bit, or can you tune them back in somehow?

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Bill Cowles
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Reged: 04/16/06

Loc: Utah
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: prestonrich]
      #5517947 - 11/13/12 01:25 PM

I move my altaz controls to find the best sweet spot and I also don't notice any loss of clarity, especially with the increase in contrast when using in the DS mode. Too me the difference is so noticeable, that the only time I don't use in the DS mode, is when I want to use high power and DS , is sometimes too dim. This is why I use lower power when using my Denks.

Bill

Edited by Bill Cowles (11/13/12 03:24 PM)


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prestonrich
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/01/07

Loc: Washington DC Mayland suburbs
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: Bill Cowles]
      #5517978 - 11/13/12 01:41 PM

Lower power works for me too, Bill, usually prefering 25mm to 32mm plossls in binos (especially for proms). I don't have my DS60f yet but it's on order. Do you use a 50mm or 60mm DS? Think I'll see a difference over the 50mm?

-Preston


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mhilscher
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Reged: 07/13/11

Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: prestonrich]
      #5518020 - 11/13/12 02:11 PM

60mm was a good purchase for me, so far only used once, but not too dark...

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jerwin
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 05/17/12

Loc: Romeoville IL
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: prestonrich]
      #5518021 - 11/13/12 02:12 PM

I’m not expert by any means, but I built my lunt over several months so I’ve been in every boat possible for a hand full of viewing sessions. I started with the single stack tilt tuned, did the PT retrofit from lunt, and later double stacked.

I'm typically viewing between 25mm and 8mm because of my zoom ep and with the 1200 blocking filter I still get the entire disk into the EP. The higher the magnification the darker everything gets, so the proms stand out more at 25 or 16mm than at 8 but they are still there and look pretty sweet at 8mm.

I've never taken the DS off while looking at a prom to tell if I can see more of them or not. I'd assume it would be brighter and thus I'd maybe see a little more of “ghostly tips”, but I think seeing the surface detail and proms together is more impressive than a tiny tiny bit more of the proms. On Halloween there was a filament that wrapped around the edge that broke into a prominence that looked very cool. If I was single stacked, I don't know that I would have saw it as well as I did with the DS.

I'd also say the sweet spot of the PT seems much larger than the tilt tune. My sweet spot in the tilt tuned model was a quarter of the disk at most. Many people said my sweet spot was smaller than most. And I went forward with the PT retrofit from Lunt and felt the HA sweet spot was basically the entire disk afterwards.

When I was single stacked with the tilt tune I would move the altaz controls to move the sun through the sweet spot instead of moving the sweet spot across the sun. It was just easier than continuously adjusting the tilt wheel. The PT retrofit eliminated that completely for me, but I found myself moving the PT knob to switch between more surface detail and prominences a little. There was a point where I could see both and I'd usually leave it there, but adjusting the PT would give me slightly better views of one or the other, but it was all very slight. And lets face it proms are cooler than surface detail so I’d usually tweak in favor of the prom.

Once I bought the DS I really feel like I get the best of both worlds all the time. The PT gives me the proms and some surface detail, but as soon as I turn the DS wheel the surface detail just starts to pop out. Depending on what’s up there at the time, I almost get what I would call a 3D effect.

I think you’re going to be very happy with the DS. Not sure how much the DS60 improves the views over the 50, but I’m so happy with mine that I can’t imagine you’d be disappointed or struggle with yours.

Jim


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prestonrich
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/01/07

Loc: Washington DC Mayland suburbs
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: jerwin]
      #5518049 - 11/13/12 02:30 PM

Great stuff, Jim. Thanks. I notice that when I screw in the PT nearly all the way (currently on my SS) and then back it out a bit there's a point when the proms/surface detail improve pretty significantly over similar points when first screwing the PT in (perhaps due to pressure leakage). Have you noticed that effect?

Also, do you back the PT completely out to equalize the pressure to ambient conditions before every viewing session or basically leave it alone once adjusted?


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Bill Cowles
MacGyver
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Reged: 04/16/06

Loc: Utah
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: prestonrich]
      #5518130 - 11/13/12 03:15 PM

I have the 50 and always wanted to compare against the 60, it would probably be a little brighter, but I don't think $500 worth. I also use either 25's or my 21's for bino viewing. Larger apeture would be the biggest advantage for bino's, but then the price starts to really climb.

Bill


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Bill Cowles
MacGyver
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Reged: 04/16/06

Loc: Utah
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: prestonrich]
      #5518138 - 11/13/12 03:23 PM

I normally back the PT out, but just as I feel it is at the end, going all the way off as caused some people problems, with re attaching. It is so easy and fast to equalize I do it before each viewing session, too it's not often that I get to view the following day.

I also notice the improvement when first screwing the PT in and then backing off. Also moving the image around to find the best sweet spot, also helps.

Bill


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prestonrich
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/01/07

Loc: Washington DC Mayland suburbs
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: Bill Cowles]
      #5518187 - 11/13/12 03:51 PM

I can see more in my 32's than in my 25's. Poor viewing conditions really limit the use of my ES 8.8's and even my 12's. My 32's are actually Celestron's latest X-Cel plossls which I like even more than the twin Hyperions 31mm Aspherics for solar. Then again...I'm 71 ;-) and can't really use the larger FOV.

P.S. I always bino.

Edited by prestonrich (11/13/12 04:05 PM)


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jerwin
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 05/17/12

Loc: Romeoville IL
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: prestonrich]
      #5518665 - 11/13/12 08:42 PM

I don't know that I've ever tightened it all the way and then backed it up, but I'll try that next time and see if there is any improvement.

As far as equalizing the pressure, most of the time mine is mounted on the tripod in the dining room for quicker setup, and I don't unscrew the PT between viewing sessions at my home, but do readjust it once I take it outside. Not sure if I need to, I think it's just habit. You never quite know what's going on up there until you fiddle with stuff.

I also do some public outreach sessions that require me to travel 30 minutes away. Before I put it in the case I'll unscrew it, and give it one or two twists back on. I'm not changing elevation or anything like that, so it's probably not necessary, just my habit.

Bino's would be fun, but I really like my baader zoom for quickly zooming in and out. I'm about half your age, so my eyes are probably picking up more than yours at 8mm.

Jim


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Bill Cowles
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Reged: 04/16/06

Loc: Utah
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: jerwin]
      #5518918 - 11/13/12 11:39 PM

I'm 1 year off of Prestons age and my problem is floaters. I find that 2 eyes compensates for floaters and gives me a cleaner image.

Bill


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prestonrich
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/01/07

Loc: Washington DC Mayland suburbs
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: Bill Cowles]
      #5518963 - 11/14/12 12:48 AM

Jim--

I don't screw the PT all the way in...just a full turn past the point of best view, then I back it out to the best view--usually a slightly different location.

Bill--

We both probably have "age reduced" pupils, but I'm now 20/20 after cataract surgery and still struggle w/the 8mm's whether in bino or mono.


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Bill Cowles
MacGyver
*****

Reged: 04/16/06

Loc: Utah
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: prestonrich]
      #5519470 - 11/14/12 12:26 PM Attachment (10 downloads)

I can use 8mm on my Hyperion, but only without the stacking filter, just too dim and noisy. Using the bino's I usually stick with the 21's or sometimes some 15's, but not stacked, too dim. When stacked I usually use the 25's or 21's at the lowest or mid power on the Denk powerswitch. It's here I wish I had a 100mm filter for my ES127, then I could use higher power with bino's. The views even at lower power with bino's, is still my favorite setup.

Bill


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prestonrich
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/01/07

Loc: Washington DC Mayland suburbs
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: Bill Cowles]
      #5520855 - 11/15/12 09:57 AM

I'm not just seeing challenged, but seeing conditions challenged here in the DC area. Pretty much stick w/my BIPH and C5 at night too.

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Bill Cowles
MacGyver
*****

Reged: 04/16/06

Loc: Utah
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: prestonrich]
      #5521118 - 11/15/12 12:17 PM

My conditions are not always that good, with our inversions , that SLC gets, especially come Winter. The Sun is so bright and large, that even with thin clouds I can still view and because of the grab & go ability of the Lunt, can always take down and reset when the Sun is available. There is a much bigger window in Solar viewing than viewing at night, especially come Winter. I often setup in snow, something I have never done with my larger scopes.

Bill


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prestonrich
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/01/07

Loc: Washington DC Mayland suburbs
Re: How to tune Lunt LS60T/60FDS/PT/B1200? new [Re: Bill Cowles]
      #5521444 - 11/15/12 03:35 PM

Other than water, over what terrain do you get the steadiest seeing conditions?

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