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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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Sky Muse
sage


Reged: 10/26/12

Loc: De Soto County, MS
Our refractors: for visual, or imaging?
      #5519724 - 11/14/12 03:43 PM

Seemingly, casual, amateur astrophotography, as opposed to to that of the scientific community, amounts to little more than a brief, static, falsified increase in aperture, in that a camera attached to, say, a 5" f/6 refractor, collects more and more photons the longer the shutter is open, capturing on film what one would see live otherwise, in an instant, viewing through a much larger objective. Certainly many unfamiliar with the pastime upon seeing an astrophotograph believe that what they're seeing on film is precisely what they'd see when looking through the eyepiece. They look, and are disappointed. Of course, the photographer finds himself quite satisfied with the results, as he and he alone understands the difference. It's a very personal thing to the astrophotographer, and one which I fully understand; however...

I, personally, could never present my refractor as less than for what it truly is, which is why I am solely a visual observer, preferring live, dynamic views with my own eyes in the here and now. Besides, one could never duplicate here on Earth the photographs taken by the Hubble, or in future perhaps, those by the James Webb, if successful; the futility being just that.

We've all enjoyed on occasion viewing photographs of family and friends gone by, but they're only reflections and representations of who and what they were. Wouldn't you rather a "time portal" for observing them in their day-to-day lives, hearing their voices and watching them in motion, alive? Of course you would, especially the ones, during your own life, you had come to know and love. Home movies, photographs in motion, approximate the experience, but they wouldn't be the same, if said portal were in existence. Now consider...

Analogously, in your possession is a device, a "time portal" that will allow you to observe others alive still; said portal being, the refractor. When you view, say, Betelgeuse, a red supergiant, through your refractor, you see it as it appeared 640 years ago, and still alive, albeit at the point in its life where collapsing upon its core and then violently exploding outward into the void as a type II supernova is imminent, although in the distant future. However, there are those who believe that it may explode at any time during our own lives, its presence in the sunlit sky to be possibly far greater than those visible in 1054 and 1604 A.D....

...that is, barring an instantaneous, utter enveloping upon the event.

Not to worry, as the expanding Crab, another type II, is but a mere eleven light-years in diameter.

In short, which would be best upon the event: a static, regressive photograph, or a live observation?

Cheers,

Alan


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*skyguy*
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/31/08

Loc: Western New York
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: Sky Muse]
      #5519729 - 11/14/12 03:49 PM

Concerning astrophotography ... there's an old saying ... "Never say Never!"

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chboss
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/24/08

Loc: Zurich Switzerland
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: *skyguy*]
      #5520201 - 11/14/12 09:35 PM

There will always be a bit of both...

Visual observation has its special magic since no night is like another.
Depending on moon and seeing conditions the objects will make a different impression and that makes it exciting and relaxing at the same time.

best regards
Chris


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la200o
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/09/08

Loc: SE Michigan, USA
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: chboss]
      #5520250 - 11/14/12 10:22 PM

I think the appeal of AP is creative. A good image is sort of an artwork. It's not for me, but many obviously enjoy it and get a sense of accomplishment from it.

Bill


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: Sky Muse]
      #5520629 - 11/15/12 06:39 AM

Quote:


In short, which would be best upon the event: a static, regressive photograph, or a live observation?




Alan:

When people travel to the Grand Canyon, they both look and they take pictures. Myself, I happen to enjoy the visual experience more than the photographic experience, that's just my choice.

There is nothing false about an image and certainly good camera can show things that are not visible naked eye even in the amateur largest telescopes.

Telescopes are tools to be enjoyed in whatever way one pleases.

Jon


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Sky Muse
sage


Reged: 10/26/12

Loc: De Soto County, MS
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5521223 - 11/15/12 01:23 PM

Again, "...falsified increase in aperture...", not the image itself.

"Telescopes are tools to be enjoyed in whatever way one pleases."

I agree.

Cheers,

Alan


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dscarpa
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/15/08

Loc: San Diego Ca.
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: Sky Muse]
      #5521698 - 11/15/12 06:36 PM

Lacking the smarts to do AP it's an easy choice for me. I do enjoy the work of others however and find it adds something to my viewing. David

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Sky Muse
sage


Reged: 10/26/12

Loc: De Soto County, MS
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: dscarpa]
      #5521823 - 11/15/12 07:56 PM

I enjoy the photographs of the Hubble processed by others myself. Those to be taken by the James Webb space telescope, if it's ever launched into orbit, should prove to be even more spectacular.

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Lane
Post Laureate


Reged: 11/19/07

Loc: Frisco, Texas
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: Sky Muse]
      #5522192 - 11/16/12 01:15 AM

I was talking with the owner of a telescope store today and we got to talking about small refractors in 3" to 5" range, at which point he informed me they were almost totally useless for visual observing except for low power wide field viewing. He added that they only exist for AP.

I thought that was a strange thing for him to say, especially since he sells those kinds of refractors on mounts that are clearly not going to be used for AP and he has been an amateur astronomer at least 30 years or more. I was telling him about some of the things I had seen with my 92mm and from the way he was looking at me I am certain he did not believe a word I was saying.


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MAURITS
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Belgium
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: Lane]
      #5522238 - 11/16/12 04:02 AM

Only visual

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t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: MAURITS]
      #5522414 - 11/16/12 08:19 AM

Me too! I think this quote sums it up for me...

"Considered as a collector of rare and precious things, the amateur astronomer has a great advantage over amateurs in other fields ... the amateur astronomer has access at all times to the original objects of his study; the masterworks of the heavens belong to him as much as to the great observatories of the world. And there is no privilege like that of being allowed to stand in the presence of the original."

--Robert Burnham Jr, Burnham's Celestial Handbook




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JIMZ7
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/22/05

Loc: S.E.Michigan near DTW
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: t.r.]
      #5522426 - 11/16/12 08:25 AM

Likewise only visual even though I have a college degree in photography/video. Figure that out. I once took pictures on a vacation & don't remember the vacation. I had to look at my pictures to remind myself what I saw.

Jim


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j3ffr0
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Virginia
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: JIMZ7]
      #5522530 - 11/16/12 09:48 AM

I'm 100% visual at this time. However, I love the idea of astrophotography. I think that is a joy that I will perhaps take up when I retire.

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Kunama
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/22/12

Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: j3ffr0]
      #5523606 - 11/16/12 11:13 PM

Strictly visual for the refractor
Strictly a/p for the reflector .....


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Scott in NCModerator
Mad Hatter
*****

Reged: 03/05/05

Loc: NC
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: Lane]
      #5523650 - 11/16/12 11:33 PM

Quote:

I was telling him about some of the things I had seen with my 92mm and from the way he was looking at me I am certain he did not believe a word I was saying.




Hmm...sounds like he may not get out and observe much, if at all. One can be a salesman of astro gear without being an amateur astronomer. Maybe that's the case here.


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moynihan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 07/22/03

Loc: Lake Michigan Watershed
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: Sky Muse]
      #5524100 - 11/17/12 10:34 AM

Quote:

I enjoy the photographs of the Hubble processed by others myself. ...




Same here. Though at times i have done a lot of photography, i have never done AP/imaging. I leave that, like i leave wildlife photography, to those really keen on it. I do enjoy the images i see on CN, and thanks to their makers for sharing them


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: Sky Muse]
      #5526270 - 11/18/12 02:45 PM

Did the creator give us eyes for looking at things or for looking at pictures of things?



- Jim


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Scott99
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: New England
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5526395 - 11/18/12 04:06 PM

Seeing the Orion nebula snap into focus in my refractor as I sit in the cold winter air has always sent a chill down my spine. A feeling I've never experienced looking at photos.

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sg6
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/14/10

Loc: Norfolk, UK.
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: Scott99]
      #5526422 - 11/18/12 04:27 PM

Always been visual, although I have 2 scopes and 2 EQ mounts that would be very good for AP.

One day I suspect I will attach a camera and give it a go.

Suspect my greatest worry is that I might get something good out of it.


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rflinn68
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/09/12

Loc: Arkansas
Re: Our refractors: for visual, or imaging? new [Re: Kunama]
      #5526939 - 11/18/12 10:03 PM

Quote:

Strictly visual for the refractor
Strictly a/p for the reflector .....




I have a f/4 newt astrograph and just bought the AT65EDQ for wide field. I LOVE the new apo for photography and for visual everything is so crystal clear. Star test on the apo amazed me. Now I REALLY want a bigger apo!!


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