John F
sage
Reged: 02/16/04
Posts: 308
Loc: Washington State
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One pleasant surprise I had with my new pair of 22x60s is how well they work for long distance terrestrial viewing. The first day I received them I took them up to a local 450 foot hill with a small "Lookout Park" located on it. For a mount I placed the Taks on my camera tripod (photo attached).
The view from this hill is great. The 14,410 foot Mt. Rainier is 45 miles away and when looked at through these binoculars you feel like you're up very close and inside the boundaries of the park itself.
And on a clear day (like last Friday night), you can scan up and down both the Cascade Mountain range to the east and the Olympic Mountain Range to the Northwest. Through the Taks I was able to see Mt. Baker which is 135 north of where I was standing and even inside the top of Mt. Saint Helen's crater which is 50 miles to the south. And of course, I could clearly see and recognize many of the peaks in between the 180 miles that separate Mt. Baker from Mt. Saint Helens.
Locally, from this Lookout Park you can also get excellent views of all of the lower Puget Sound region plus the sound itself. With these binoculars I was able to very clearly make out two people walking along a beach that is 6.5 miles away from where I was.
The next day I took the binoculars up to Mt. Rainier National Park and got their before the sunset so I could do some terrestrial observing with them before stargazing later in the evening. Again, the views astounded me. I could clearly see climbers sitting on the top of a rocky peak that must have been at least 6 miles away. And as I roamed around Mt. Rainier itself I spotted many features that I had never noticed before in lower power binoculars.
Another feature that really impressed me was how clear and sharp they were for such a high power binocular. Except for the fact that only have a 46 degree apparent field the quality of the view was indistinguishable from what I'm accustomed to with my lower power binoculars. Most 20-25x binoculars I've looked through provide impressive views but their overall field quality is not in the same league as the lower magnification/high-end binoculars from the Big Four (i.e., Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski & Nikon). To my delight, these Taks are.
In addition to the quality of the field, another thing that makes these 22x60s remarkable is how small, lightweight and portable they are. I can binoview with my telescope at powers ranging from 26x on up but the system (i.e., telescope, mount, eyepiece case) is a lot more cumbersome to set up, use, or take with you for terrestrial viewing than the 22x60s Taks are because they don't have any additional accessories that have to be used with them and they will work with an ordinary (i.e., very portable and lightweight) camera tripod. Furthermore, if you lower the tripod legs you can use the system very comfortably from a seated position. The tripod head that I use is ball type which makes it very easy and natural to tilt or swivel the binoculars to any position required.
If it were not for the fact that these binoculars lack anything approaching a near focus capability, they'd make a excellent alternative to a spotting scope. But, for long distance terrestrial observing they're great.
John Finnan
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Leica 7x42 Ultravid
Nikon 7x50 Prostar
Swarovski 8.5x42 EL
Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe
Leica 12x50 Ultravid
Zeiss 15x60 B/GAT
Takahashi 22x60 Astronomer
NP-127 w/Bino Vue
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JCB
super member
Reged: 10/04/04
Posts: 151
Loc: France
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John,
This is a nice description of the terrestrial capabilities of the Taks.
From time to time, I go with my Taks to the peak of a small hill near my home, only to observe the surrounding landscape. I am feeling the same things than you, they are exceptional for long distance viewing.
However, they have a drawback in my opinion : the comfort is poor due to the small exit pupil. And they are plain unusable on sunny and hot days, because there is too much air turbulence near the ground.
Jean-Charles
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craig_oz_land
sage
Reged: 01/21/04
Posts: 343
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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John,
I have found the Taks also very good at terrestrial viewing. Very sharp and no chromatic aberration.
Have you noticed the very evenly illuminated field, i.e. lack of vignetting?
I have said it before how they just seem to get better and better the stiller the air becomes.
Jean Charles,
I agree with you on the exit pupil. Also related have you found the IPD has to be set very exactly to obtain the best performance?
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2570
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Hi John,
I spend a lot of time using mounted high power binos for terrestrial observation so I am quite interested in reading your write up. However, I find it difficult to follow the thread while scrolling back and forth thru 8 paragraphs. Would it be possible to crop/redue the size of your photo to make it easier to follow? TIA.
Erik D
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lighttrap
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
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John, what kind of ball head mount is that?
Thanks,
Mike
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18" Starsplitter II f/4.5
8" Hardin Dob f/6
C5 workhorse mini SCT f/10 or f/6.3
70mm TV Ranger dual purpose birding/astro
77mm Leica Televid APO
16x70 Fujinons on UA Deluxe Mt.
12x50 Nikon SE
8x30 Nikon E2s
and many others
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 3363
Loc: NJ USA
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The Burgess 22x65 APO binoculars look great if they ever ship.
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Pentax PF-80ED
Meade 102ED APO
Orion EON 72
120ST
Apex 127
C6 XLT
CR150
C9.25
XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL
Canon 10x42L IS WP
15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45
Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2570
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
Burgess 22x65 APO binoculars look great IF they ever ship.
"IF" is the key word here. We first heard about this pair on the BO refractor forum in Feb 05. Saw the prototype with built-in tripod adapter at NEAF scope show in April but have not heard anythiing since....
My main interested in new mounted astro binos would be for 80mm or bigger with premimum optics. But a pair of 22X65 ED bino with 3.5 deg FOV/77 deg APFOV and little false color will be terrific for long range terrestrial observation. Especially if the price under $400.
Erik D
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Steve Napier
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/04
Posts: 1559
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The lens designed by Mr TMB I see.
His refractor lenses are outstanding,Im buying a TMB soon.
Steve N
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JCB
super member
Reged: 10/04/04
Posts: 151
Loc: France
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Quote:
I agree with you on the exit pupil. Also related have you found the IPD has to be set very exactly to obtain the best performance?
craig_oz_land,
Because I am perfectionist, I always set the IPD at the right value for me, so I have never tested a wrong IPD. However, I've found that the eyes must be perfectly aligned with the oculars, otherwise I can see chromatic aberration. A wrong IPD should cause the same phenomenon.
At least with the taks, we are ensured that the only CA we can see is in our eyes, not in the bino. 
Is it true that the Taks are discontinued ?
Jean-Charles
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10163
Loc: Lancashire UK
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John F,
Thank you for yet another wonderful , inspirational post.
I bought my straight through 85mm Zeiss diascope for precisely the same kind of terrestrial observing you so enticingly described.
The scope DOES do " exactly as it says on the tin " , as it were , but I must admit that with hindsight , I think I would have derived MUCH more pleasure from something like a Nikon 18 x 70 with it's 4 degree TFOV.
Even at around 20x power , all too often I find mirage , heat haze , mist etc etc spoils the fun for me.
The Takahashi sounds terrific , but I can't help feeling that the little gripes made by Jean Charles would easily get to me too !
Regards , Kenny
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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craig_oz_land
sage
Reged: 01/21/04
Posts: 343
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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Hi Jean,
I have heard about it being discontinued too, but I am not sure if there is any substance too it.
rgds, Craig
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John F
sage
Reged: 02/16/04
Posts: 308
Loc: Washington State
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Jean-Charles,
In reply to your comment that “They have a drawback in my opinion: The comfort is poor due to the small exit pupil. And they are plain unusable on sunny and hot days, because there is too much air turbulence near the ground.”
I have not experienced any exit pupil problems with them. However, I’ve been using them with good mounts and mostly while sitting down. On the turbulence question, I did notice some while looking through them during the mid-afternoon. However, most of the terrestrial observing that I’ve done with them so far has been in the early evening hours when it was still sunny but not as hot as during the mid-day. And in reply to your question of weather or not I noticed their very evenly illuminated field, the answer is yes and it is another one of the features that make this such an impressive binocular.
On the issue of whether or not the Tak 22 x 60s have been or are soon to be discontinued, I have not heard anything about that. If those Burgess 22x65s ever ship and manage to maintain a consistent high quality level, then they will certainly put a lot of price pressure on the Taks and possibly force them to discontinue them. Talk about a knock-off, the Burgess 22x65s even copy the “tacky” design of the Tak 22 x 60s.
Mike,
The ball head is made by a German company called Novoflex and their name for their ball head is the Magicball. They make it in three different sizes. The one I have is medium sized Model 50. The ball head is also resting on a Novoflex product called the Universal Panorama base. The Novoflex line is carried by most major US camera store (e.g., B&H Photo, Adorama, etc.). Anyway, between those two devices motion in all directions is precise and smooth. It is also simple to lock a camera or binoculars in any position. However, when you release the tension on the ball head the camera or binocular will flop forward unless you have your other hand ready to prevent that. Nevertheless, they’re very simple and intuitive use. And while this type of Mount/Tripod combination is not ideal for astronomy because of the neck strain you’ll soon feel if you use it for very long, it’s ideal for terrestrial use because you can use it while either standing up or seating by simply retracting or extending the tripod legs. The whole system folds down to about a length of around 27 inches, weighs around 7 pounds (including the ball head), and easily fits in a vendor supplied condura case that has a shoulder strap for easy and fairly comfortable carrying.
Craig,
I’m not sure I understand what kind of problem you’re having with reading the post. When I view it the picture is at the bottom of the text and all the text paragraphs are above it. Maybe it has something to do with how your browser is configured. Anyway, if you temporarily log off of Cloudy Nights and then reenter the site not logged in and then view this thread the picture should not be displayed by default and you should not have any trouble reading the text. Another option would be do to a cut and paste of the text to a word processor and then format it anyway you want in that.
John
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Leica 7x42 Ultravid
Nikon 7x50 Prostar
Swarovski 8.5x42 EL
Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe
Leica 12x50 Ultravid
Zeiss 15x60 B/GAT
Takahashi 22x60 Astronomer
NP-127 w/Bino Vue
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John F
sage
Reged: 02/16/04
Posts: 308
Loc: Washington State
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Kenny,
If you already had a nice mid-teens power binocular like the Zeiss 15x60s or Fujinon 16x70s then perhaps the Tak 22x60 would be a logical addition/step up from one of those. However, if you don't already have a binocular in that range and are considering either a Tak 22x60 or the Nikon 18x70s then I think you would be better served overall by the Nikons (and especially if you will be doing a lot of terrestrial observing with them). Their exit pupil is significantly larger and both the true and apparent fields are radically larger. And you can see much detail several miles away with them - not as good as with the Taks, but still quite good. Attached is a picture of my Nikon 10x70 Astroluxes. The size, weight, appearance and quality of the 18x70 Astroluxes is virtually the same. The 10x70s are sharper out towards the edge of the field. However, they only have a 51 degree apparent field and the 18x70s have a 72 degree apparent field.
John
--------------------
Leica 7x42 Ultravid
Nikon 7x50 Prostar
Swarovski 8.5x42 EL
Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe
Leica 12x50 Ultravid
Zeiss 15x60 B/GAT
Takahashi 22x60 Astronomer
NP-127 w/Bino Vue
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craig_oz_land
sage
Reged: 01/21/04
Posts: 343
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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Quote:
............
Craig,
I’m not sure I understand what kind of problem you’re having with reading the post.............
John
That was Erik D, John.
I wish I had a chance to look through those Nikons. They don't have any demos in Australia since they are a very low turnover item here. Fujis no problem, a little frustrating.
rgds, Craig.
Edited by craig_oz_land (08/11/05 06:46 AM)
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John F
sage
Reged: 02/16/04
Posts: 308
Loc: Washington State
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Craig,
Sorry about the mixup. On the Nikon 10x70 question, I did have a chance to compare them to a pair of 10 x 70 Fujinons recently and I also got to take them and their 7x50 kid brothers (picture attached) with me last week to a 5,000 foot elevation - very dark sky site for two all-night observing sessions. The really dark sky made a difference and I was very pleased with the views. I have been planning on doing a post of those two/that trip some time with the next week or two so stay turned.
Erik D
Please see my reply mistakenly addressed to Craig a couple of post up.
John
--------------------
Leica 7x42 Ultravid
Nikon 7x50 Prostar
Swarovski 8.5x42 EL
Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe
Leica 12x50 Ultravid
Zeiss 15x60 B/GAT
Takahashi 22x60 Astronomer
NP-127 w/Bino Vue
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lighttrap
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
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Quote:
The ball head is made by a German company called Novoflex
John, thanks for the detailed info. That's certainly a high end solution.
--------------------
18" Starsplitter II f/4.5
8" Hardin Dob f/6
C5 workhorse mini SCT f/10 or f/6.3
70mm TV Ranger dual purpose birding/astro
77mm Leica Televid APO
16x70 Fujinons on UA Deluxe Mt.
12x50 Nikon SE
8x30 Nikon E2s
and many others
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pedro
super member
Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 199
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Hi John
I am also (day by day) very impressed with the Tak's sharpness (using to day or night)
As you (but I ''was'' I am not more now) a happy owner of a Nikon 10x70's - I don't know if I get to seem completely ''out of reality'' but I feel that the Tak's image at 22X have the same ''sharpness quality'' and the same image style as the Nikon at 10X - I am not comparing of course the exit pupil, etc, only image by image.
Pedro
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pedro
super member
Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 199
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A curiosity
Which is the serial number on the yours??
regards Pedro
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John F
sage
Reged: 02/16/04
Posts: 308
Loc: Washington State
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Pedro,
I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours. I go first, I have number 10415.
John
--------------------
Leica 7x42 Ultravid
Nikon 7x50 Prostar
Swarovski 8.5x42 EL
Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe
Leica 12x50 Ultravid
Zeiss 15x60 B/GAT
Takahashi 22x60 Astronomer
NP-127 w/Bino Vue
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craig_oz_land
sage
Reged: 01/21/04
Posts: 343
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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Mine is 10208.
Either of you have a clue if this is a sequential number or more akin to the combined year and number that Tak use on their telescopes?
I bought mine third hand I believe.
rgds cb.
Edited by craig_oz_land (08/16/05 07:54 AM)
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