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Ira
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
What if m=ec^2?
#5528512 - 11/19/12 06:14 PM

In another possible world where this law held instead of the one we have now, what would the universe look like?

/Ira

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Wordsmith

Reged: 03/22/05

Re: What if m=ec^2? [Re: Ira]
#5528820 - 11/19/12 09:11 PM

Cleveland.

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Ira
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
Re: What if m=ec^2? [Re: Joad]
#5528840 - 11/19/12 09:24 PM

I knew it couldn't be California.

/Ira

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Man in a Tub
Postmaster

Reged: 10/28/08

Loc: Fogpatch, CA
Re: What if m=ec^2? [Re: Ira]
#5529408 - 11/20/12 05:38 AM

Rearranging to e=m/c^2

"The hurrier I go, the behinder I get." — Lewis Carroll

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Mister T
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: What if m=ec^2? [Re: Ira]
#5529730 - 11/20/12 10:09 AM

Did Otto put you up to that?

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Pess
(Title)

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: What if m=ec^2? [Re: Man in a Tub]
#5530357 - 11/20/12 02:52 PM

Quote:

Rearranging to e=m/c^2

"The hurrier I go, the behinder I get." — Lewis Carroll

Pesse (I think that would lead to a massive change in the Universe.) Mist

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Postmaster

Reged: 04/28/03

Loc: Atlanta, GA
Re: What if m=ec^2? [Re: Pess]
#5530398 - 11/20/12 03:12 PM

Well, then stars would run out of fuel much faster, because mass would suddenly carry a lot less "bang for the buck", so to speak. C^4 less bang, to be exact....

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FirstSight
Duke of Deneb

Reged: 12/26/05

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: What if m=ec^2? [Re: Joad]
#5530574 - 11/20/12 04:27 PM

Quote:

Cleveland.

Oh....noes! OK, it could be worse; it could look like Camden, NJ.

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FirstSight
Duke of Deneb

Reged: 12/26/05

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: What if [Re: Jarad]
#5530584 - 11/20/12 04:33 PM

Quote:

Well, then stars would run out of fuel much faster, because mass would suddenly carry a lot less "bang for the buck", so to speak. C^4 less bang, to be exact....

If so, the vast majority of primordial disks of gas and dust that have formed stars under e = mc^2 would not have enough energy to ignite the fusion process under m=ec^2 in the first place, and most of the mass which is now stars would instead be tied up in more massive versions of not-enough-for-prime time balls of gas like Jupiter.

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Man in a Tub
Postmaster

Reged: 10/28/08

Loc: Fogpatch, CA
Re: What if [Re: FirstSight]
#5530630 - 11/20/12 05:01 PM

Quote:

If so, the vast majority of primordial disks of gas and dust that have formed stars under e = mc^2 would not have enough energy to ignite the fusion process under m=ec^2 in the first place, and most of the mass which is now stars would instead be tied up in more massive versions of not-enough-for-prime time balls of gas like Jupiter.

Thanks for the particulars which are beyond my skills! How could such a universe even originate and proceed from a "Big Bang"?

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StarWars
Mr. Postmaster Man

Reged: 11/26/03

Loc: At the Gym >Spudtastic<
Re: What if m=ec^2? [Re: Man in a Tub]
#5530876 - 11/20/12 07:23 PM Attachment (11 downloads)

Quote:

Rearranging to e=m/c^2

"The hurrier I go, the behinder I get." — Lewis Carroll

Instead of the Big Bang it would of been the Big Twang...

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: What if [Re: FirstSight]
#5531305 - 11/20/12 11:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Well, then stars would run out of fuel much faster, because mass would suddenly carry a lot less "bang for the buck", so to speak. C^4 less bang, to be exact....

If so, the vast majority of primordial disks of gas and dust that have formed stars under e = mc^2 would not have enough energy to ignite the fusion process under m=ec^2 in the first place, and most of the mass which is now stars would instead be tied up in more massive versions of not-enough-for-prime time balls of gas like Jupiter.

It probably goes beyond that. I'm not sure that matter as we know it would even be able to exist under those conditions. Doesn't that relationship pervade all the forces of matter?

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Mister T
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: What if [Re: llanitedave]
#5531618 - 11/21/12 07:36 AM

wouldn't it all depend on what it all started as?

if it began as e, then we would have a whole lot more m around.

stars would form sooner and get bigger, and would not fusion take place at the same star mass just produce less e

but if we started with m then we would have same stars producing less e , therefore getting much denser before going supernova or perhaps no supernovas because gravity would be able to counter act the reduced e and resulting in "slightly above average Novas"

or mediocrenovas

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Postmaster

Reged: 04/28/03

Loc: Atlanta, GA
Re: What if [Re: Mister T]
#5531665 - 11/21/12 08:22 AM

I remember my freshman physics class, after we had studied our orbital mechanics, we walked in to the first test. It started out:

Quote:

In our universe the equation for gravity is F = G*M1*M2/R^2. For this test, you will be calculating orbits in a universe where gravity is F = G*M1*M2*R.

I remember looking around and seeing the sweat popping out on everyone else's foreheads, too, as we realized we were going to have to re-derive all of the formulas we had memorized.

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Kobayashi
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 07/10/08

Re: What if [Re: Jarad]
#5532349 - 11/21/12 02:09 PM

Keep in mind that a physics formula doesn't deal with numbers, they deal with physical quantities with units. e=mc^2 works because energy has the unit of mass * distance^2 / time^2. A Joule equals kg*m^2/s^2.

In a world where e=m/c^2, energy would have the units of mass * time^2 / distance^2. I guess kinetic energy would be 1/2 m/v^2 - i.e. the smaller the speed, the larger the kinetic energy. I can't even begin to imagine what that universe looks like.

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Pess
(Title)

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: What if [Re: Kobayashi]
#5532434 - 11/21/12 03:01 PM

Quote:

Keep in mind that a physics formula doesn't deal with numbers, they deal with physical quantities with units. e=mc^2 works because energy has the unit of mass * distance^2 / time^2. A Joule equals kg*m^2/s^2.

In a world where e=m/c^2, energy would have the units of mass * time^2 / distance^2. I guess kinetic energy would be 1/2 m/v^2 - i.e. the smaller the speed, the larger the kinetic energy. I can't even begin to imagine what that universe looks like.

Pesse (Just tap it in. Just tap it in. Give it a little tappy. Tap Tap Taparoo.) Mist

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Postmaster

Reged: 04/28/03

Loc: Atlanta, GA
Re: What if [Re: Pess]
#5532471 - 11/21/12 03:18 PM

The good news is it would take less gas to go fast than to go slow.

Does that mean that NASCAR in that universe would be a contest to see who can go the slowest around the track?

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EJN
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 11/01/05

Loc: 53 miles west of Venus
Re: What if m=ec^2? [Re: Ira]
#5532480 - 11/21/12 03:24 PM

Atomic bombs would be firecrackers.

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Pess
(Title)

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: What if [Re: Jarad]
#5532484 - 11/21/12 03:25 PM

E=MC^2 means that it takes a LOT of energy to fuse two atoms.

E=M/C^2 means it takes very LITTLE energy to fuse two atoms..bascially coming within smell distance of each other ought to do it.

No need for stars to run fusion reactions. Atoms will combine willy-nilly just bumping into each other where kinetic energy would overcome the strong nuclear force.

So after the Big Bang the quark soup would rapidly coalesce into hydrogen atoms which would then keep fusing until the process resulted in the most stable atomic arrangement possible.

Pesse (Basically the Universe would be one big block of lead.) Mist

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PhilCo126
Post Laureate

Reged: 01/14/05

Loc: coastline of Belgium
Re: What if [Re: Pess]
#5532545 - 11/21/12 03:58 PM

Well, in fact the equilibrium inside stars (attractive gravity and central high pressure~temperature) means that energy has some "weight"

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