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Reged: 05/30/08

Loc: Kingman, Ks
Re: Null World new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5525124 - 11/17/12 09:18 PM

well..we all know what digested material turns in to....

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Otto Piechowski

Reged: 09/20/05

Loc: Lexington, KY
Re: Null World new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5525311 - 11/17/12 11:52 PM


I got back to you but the post was deleted because of my analogical use of theological and philosophical language.

The idea of the nature; the essence of an eventless and timeless reality was explored by Augustine of Hippo in the AD 5th century.

For the sake of your/our discussion here, let us begin with the assumption that the Big Bang could generate a timeless reality. Timelessness is necessarily the condition of eventlessness. Eventlessness would not have to be an empty reality. Eventlessness could be populated by entities if the entities which populated such a reality were themselves purely actualized; i.e. an absence of potentiality. In such a case then, "(x)~(x=x)" would not have to be a condition of eventlessness and timelessness because entities did exist as themselves, in one way and not another way; i.e. x=x.

Later, it would also be reasoned as being logically consistent that this timeless/eventless reality could exist as the immanent condition of material reality in which all entities were endowed with both potentiality and actuality.

It will later be reasoned that this immanent connection of a timeless/eventless reality with a material reality will have important ramifications for the understanding of causality; a philosophical assumption uncritically accepted by and upon which all of modern science is based.


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Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 03/03/12

Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Null World new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5525640 - 11/18/12 07:54 AM


First, a subject can be predicated (categorized) without reference to any opposite of the subject. In order to define a thing all we need is the appropriate category to which the subject is assigned.

Second, there is a difference between opposite and privation. For example; darkness is the privation of light. One can make a room brighter by adding light. If darkness were an opposite, one would then make a room darker by adding darkness, which, of course, is not what happens. We make the room darker by decreasing the light in the room.

On your first point I have to wonder if an article can be described solely on its own merit. My way of reasoning seems to dictate that an article has to "come out" of a class in order to be defined with its own character. For example, how can we say that an object is present without defining the idea of absent or vice versa? Can one really “exist” without the other? Perhaps this is just me interjecting my human psyche and muddling up what stands naturally without me. It almost goes to the level quantum mechanics theories where we as humans by simply observing an object can influence its behavior. Does our logic also contribute to what is allowed to “exist” and not “exist” by simple self imposed definition?

On your second point I believe what you are defining the difference between an opposite which is a "word that lie in an inherently incompatible binary relationship" and a gradable antonym which is a "pair of words with opposite meanings where the two meanings lie on a continuous spectrum" such as hot/cold, light/darkness. But consider the fact that there might also be extremes to these gradable antonyms such as absolute zero/absolute hot (the moment of the big bang?). Absolute light/absolute dark may be analogous with absolute hot/absolute zero.

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Humble Megalomaniac

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: Null World new [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #5525904 - 11/18/12 11:24 AM

As has been pointed out already, logic and reality intersect, but they do not always correspond. And our language does not scale well when it comes to describing all possible conditions or phenomena.

Most of these dilemmas seem to me to be more linguistic struggles than analogous to anything in the external world.

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Mike Casey


Reged: 11/11/04

Loc: El Pueblo de Nuestra SeƱora l...
Re: Null World [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5529311 - 11/20/12 02:18 AM


I've not forgotten you, just doing a lot of reading. I'll return.

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Mike Casey


Reged: 11/11/04

Loc: El Pueblo de Nuestra SeƱora l...
Re: Null World new [Re: Mike Casey]
      #5536614 - 11/24/12 03:09 AM

Null world would be invariant under any kind of transformation. There is nothing to shift or reflect or rotate.

Null world maximum entropy=log(1)=0.
Null world minimum entropy would also be 0.

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