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Starman1
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: mayidunk]
      #5542630 - 11/27/12 06:57 PM

It appears to be just as well-bound, in signatures.

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deepskytraveler
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: LivingNDixie]
      #5542668 - 11/27/12 07:20 PM

Quote:

Interesting... I wonder if they are going to discontinue the 2-volume set to save on cost.




The 2-volume set had been listed as out of stock for several months on their web site. In fact it was when I last went to check if they were back in stock that I found this new All Sky Edition for sale. No mention of the 2-volume set, so it is fairly safe to assume it has been discontinued.

-Mark


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LivingNDixie
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: deepskytraveler]
      #5542874 - 11/27/12 09:34 PM

You have to feel for the publisher. How many of these atlases could they possibly sell?

One thing I noticed when scanning through some Deep Sky Magazines that I got recently was how many titles that William-Bell had in the 1980s compared to today.


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mayidunk
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: LivingNDixie]
      #5545770 - 11/29/12 04:03 PM

Yeah, it is unfortunate that books seem to be going the way of the dinosaur! You can't really blame the publishers, though. It seems to me that many reference books were kept in print for long periods of time, even though their audience may have been very sparse. However, that may just be a misapprehension on my part. In any event, with the economy as it is, along with the push to preserve paper, as well as people increasingly using e-book readers, and other electronic media, it's a wonder some of these specialty publishers like Willman-Bell are still in existence! I guess progress marches on, though it's sad to see it happen in this case.

On the other hand, I got my copies of the first edition of Uranometria today! They are the third and sixth printings, so I believe that any addenda up to 1993 have been included. However, I'm curious... with all the addenda that was provided with the first edition, just how inaccurate is it really? Is it just a few objects here and there that were out of place (seemingly the case, looking at the addenda listed in the back of the DSFG), or were the errors so significant that some people felt it appropriate to go with another atlas over Uranometria?

Edited by mayidunk (11/29/12 04:06 PM)


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fred1871
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: mayidunk]
      #5545987 - 11/29/12 06:37 PM

Books gone the way of the dinosaur? - Not entirely. Some of us still prefer books for some purposes, including atlases.

Preserving paper? - stop printing fiction bestsellers and release them as e-books. Plus a small print run of hardcovers for libraries. Newspapers are saving paper by having to live with reduced circulations - that's a big paper saving, as is online news.

Anyway - about the accuracy of 1st edition Uranometria - the magnitudes were sometimes a bit off due to old sources, some of them photographic not visual. So the Hipparcos/Tycho magnitudes are better, especially for fainter stars.

A lot of folk didn't like the order of the maps in RA - reversed in the 2nd edition to fit with the common preference. And the use of the RNGC was not a good idea, though it was supplemented with other catalogs.

I've found the 1st edition useful. And accurate enough most of the time, but as I mentioned earlier I don't chase very faint galaxies, the biggest gain in my view for the 2nd edition. More faint galaxies than you can see in a lifetime.


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mayidunk
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: fred1871]
      #5546225 - 11/29/12 08:49 PM

Unfortunately, what some of us prefer, and how we think we can affect that, usually has no relation to reality.

According to what I've read, everyone involved with the Uranometria effort went to great lengths to make corrections in the first edition through 1993. Apparently, the reason they used the RNGC was because it was already computerized at the time, which meant they could generate the charts much quicker using computers and plotters, instead of hand drawing them as they had first considered. I think they knew they were using less than perfect data up front, but counted on overcoming it by making corrections along the way, and incorporating addenda they received from the field.

Whatever the case, I'm glad I got them, I'm enjoying reading "Uranography Yesterday and Today," and I'm pretty sure the charts will be more than adequate to my needs.


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DavidNealMinnick
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5554881 - 12/04/12 11:58 PM

Quote:

So is this new combined books considered the "3rd Edition"? or has there been 3 editions of the 2 part series?




2nd English Edition
1st Printing, All Sky Edition, Oct '12


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DavidNealMinnick
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: okieav8r]
      #5554887 - 12/05/12 12:02 AM

Quote:


The plastic overlays are now a separate $14.95 purchase on the Will-Bell website. I think they shot themselves in the foot on this one.




Not only are they not included, but, there is no sleeve on the inside back cover in which to store them, as on my 2nd edition, 1st printing (Oct.'01).


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Starman1
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: DavidNealMinnick]
      #5555440 - 12/05/12 10:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:


The plastic overlays are now a separate $14.95 purchase on the Will-Bell website. I think they shot themselves in the foot on this one.




Not only are they not included, but, there is no sleeve on the inside back cover in which to store them, as on my 2nd edition, 1st printing (Oct.'01).



I put the transparent overlays in a small mailing envelope for that size and store the envelope inside the cover. It protects the transparencies and doesn't slide out of the book easily.
Even though prior editions had the pocket in the cover to hold the transparencies, I never used the pocket because it kinked the edge of the transparency in my copy.


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Rick Woods
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: Starman1]
      #5555597 - 12/05/12 12:33 PM

Put the transparancies in plastic page protectors. Then you can use them without exposing them them. I have a 3-ring notebook with the transparancies in page protectors for both U2K editions plus the MSA.

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turtle86
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: Starman1]
      #5557142 - 12/06/12 09:35 AM

Quote:

I received it yesterday.
1) It's thinner than I thought it would be.
2) The 22 page star atlases in the front of each of the separate volumes are gone.
3) The index tabs at the edges of the pages are gone!!
4) The Common Names list is no larger than before.
5) The transparent overlays are gone!!!!!!!

Essentially, it's the same. If any refinement of positions took place, it isn't mentioned. The only thing I'll really miss is the Edge-of-Page tabs.

It's definitely more cost effective that getting the 2-volume set.
But no tabs? No transparencies?




I wish they had kept the tabs and the 22 page atlas at the front. The one volume all-sky version is really more cost effective only if you don't care about the overlays, which are now $15 a la carte. IIRC, the two volumes with overlays included were $100 total; now, the one volume all-sky version plus overlays totals $85. Personally, I'd rather pay the extra $15 and get the tabs and the 22 page atlas at the front, though unfortunately that's no longer an option.


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HfxObserver
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: turtle86]
      #5561751 - 12/09/12 12:29 AM

My UA2000,0 all sky Ed. arrived this week.

I'm not a fan of the overlays and appreciate the new text, definitely worth having such detail in the field, a snowfield at present awaiting clearer sky and cooler temps..

It's a good sized book, little larger than NSOG or Star Clusters but not that heavy. Pages are a nice heavy pile.

-Chris


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Daniel Mounsey
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: Starman1]
      #5565269 - 12/11/12 12:56 AM

BTW Don,

It no longer bothers me that the 1st edition pages are structured more difficult than the 2nd edition. Uranometria isn't really the kind of atlas you flip from page to page anyway. It's really about opening a page and observing each target in detail in my opinion. Is that what you're doing Don?


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mayidunk
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: Daniel Mounsey]
      #5565804 - 12/11/12 11:55 AM

While the way that the charts connect with each other in Ver. 1 seems counter intuitive at first, it doesn't take long to get the hang of it once you see it. That's been my experience, anyway.

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Starman1
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: Daniel Mounsey]
      #5565810 - 12/11/12 11:59 AM

I'm looking for a galaxy I haven't seen before, but is in my list "To Be Observed".
I use my DSC to dial in the location.
I see a field of 7 galaxies.
Which is my target? Let me look in U2000 to see...
Hmmm. It's 41 degrees north and about here in RA, flip, flip, flip.
Ah, there's the page.
Now, let me see....
Ah there's the group of galaxies I see. Ah, my target is the one on the right.
Let me get my note pages......

The ability to find the object quickly in the charts is paramount. Having one volume instead of two is great, but I will miss the declination tabs because I used them all the time.

So I don't systematically view every object on a page. I view objects from a pre-planned script. Uranometria helps me identify the target when it's in a crowded field, which seems to be happening more and more as the targets I seek get fainter.


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Daniel Mounsey
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: Starman1]
      #5566676 - 12/11/12 10:26 PM

It's interesting you turn the pages that way Don. Heck, deep sky observing is an intense and sensational experience. My night is already plotted when using Uranometria in fact if I'm turning a page, I already know which page I'm turning it to with stick notes. I don't even have to think about it. I thought you had that planned.

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Starman1
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: Daniel Mounsey]
      #5566889 - 12/12/12 01:21 AM

I only use it for ID on about 1 in 50 objects, Daniel.
It's only used when I'm in really crowded fields.
Otherwise, the DSC is accurate enough.


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Daniel Mounsey
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: Starman1]
      #5568360 - 12/12/12 09:58 PM

It's time to plan!

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Sarkikos
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: deepskytraveler]
      #5570375 - 12/14/12 06:52 AM

I wouldn't buy the new edition of Uranometria 2000. I have some old editions that I bought used for cheap. I cut them up and put them in clear covers, and divided them into a half-dozen binders. That's much more convenient and comfortable than one single, large and heavy atlas. I don't put an atlas on a table or leave it in the van. It has to be right there with me at the eyepiece.

But I'm done buying hard copy star atlases. I have Sky Safari Pro on an Android tablet. The only thing that my U2K binders display that SSP doesn't very well are the dark nebulae. SSP shows the DN as various sized boxes, while U2k displays them with discrete boundaries. If SSP were to start showing DN more naturalistically like U2k does, then I'd never take U2k to the dark site again.

I'm not buying any more hard copy atlases! During the last half-dozen trips to my dark site, I never even looked at a printed atlas. Stick a fork in them. They are done!

Mike


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Sarkikos
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Re: New Edition of Uranometria 2000 new [Re: Starman1]
      #5570383 - 12/14/12 07:03 AM

Don,

Quote:

I still find that the direct light of a smartphone, tablet, or laptop is FAR more injurious to my night vision than the indirect light of a dim red LED flashlight on a printed page. Of course, that's not without difficulties, either, but it's a matter of degree.

In the event you are at a place where full dark adaptation is not possible, or the targets being viewed don't require it, then pretty much anything goes.

The proliferation of phones, tablets, and laptops at dark sky sites, though, is becoming quite annoying.




Yes, many observers do not set the tablets dim enough or they use the wrong kind of red filter. Any filter - such as AstroGizmo or Red Eyes - which lets colors other than red through, is not good enough. I set my tablet on night vision mode, turn it down low, and put on a sheet of Rubylinth AND a sheet of AstroGizmo (the AstroGizmo adheres better to the tablet screen than does Rubylinth). That is dim indeed! Set like this, my tablet is no brighter - I think it's actually dimmer - than a dim red light shining on a printed page. It can be done.

A good electronic atlas is much more convenient and adaptable than a printed atlas. I doubt if I'll ever buy another printed atlas.

Mike


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