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mountain monk
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Reged: 11/06/09

Loc: Grand Teton National Park
Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: Stellarfire]
      #5676798 - 02/12/13 11:24 PM

My first copy from Amazon had text and covers reversed. I returned and the second copy was fine. Too bad there seem to be so many problems---it's a great book.

Dark skies.

Jack


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Crossen
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Reged: 07/14/08

Loc: Vienna
Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: DrAl]
      #5677055 - 02/13/13 06:01 AM

Quote:

The first version ordered from Amazon used a vendor and was a bit over $80. This copy used regular paper (not glossy) and was bound in your glossy front piece. The binding was poor. The second version was directly from Amazon for about $100, was still "instant print" but with glossy paper. It was the one with the wrong book within the covers. The binding was poor compared to the original version from the library. The covers on both indicated Springer Wein/New York.




It's clear that the main problem is originating at Amazon. I would recommend that potential buyers of "Sky Vistas" order directly through Springer in New York and explicitly request a copy of the original 2003 printing of the book.

"Sky Vistas" was printed in November 2003 at Springer Vienna/New York's plant here in Vienna--the best printing and binding facility in the city. The official publishing date is February 2004. As I said in a previous post, to judge from the numbers in my annual royalties statements from Springer, several hundred copies of the original November 2003 book must still be available. How many of them are still here in Vienna and how many in New York I do not know, but will endeavor to find out. In any case, that's not the purchaser's problem.

Springer-Verlag's branch here in Vienna is an editorial/printing office: it does not have a marketing department. However, it does supply books directly to Vienna's two largest booksellers, Thalia and Morawa, both of which have websites: Thalia.at and morawa-buch.at. However, I can't recommend American buyers order "Sky Vistas" through Thalia or Morawa because they charge 71 Euros per copy, which, with the rate of exchange and shipping, would bring the final cost of the book to well over the $100 listed in Springer's website. However, if you do wish to order the book from Vienna I suggest you contact Thalia or Morawa at their customer service extensions: info@thalia.at and bestellung@morawa-buch.at.

As the text author of this book I find it outrageous that Amazon has the gall to charge you the $100 list price for a poor duplicate of the real "Sky Vistas." I'm afraid it is going to be increasingly difficult for would-be purchasers of "Sky Vistas" to find copies of the authentic thing rather than Amazon-type counterfeits. Part of the problem is the increasing proliferation of e-books: publishers and booksellers would rather distribute e-books than hard-copies because paper is very pricey (especially the type of paper used in the authentic "Sky Vistas") and the labor involved in handling hard copies is costly. The proliferation of e-books is regrettable because there will always be things a reader can do with a REAL book rather than with a ghostly e-mail specter of it--as is vividly demonstrated by Daniel Mounsey's photographs of his copies of "Burnham's Celestial Handbook" earlier in this thread!

Craig Crossen


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DrAl
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Reged: 01/05/07

Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: Crossen]
      #5677425 - 02/13/13 10:53 AM

I inquired with a few sellers using a specific description of the book -- glossy, sewn binding, and red pages inside cover, and came up with a few candidates. Albris seems to have them, but not completely verified yet. I will post when I know. I found one via Biblio at an independent seller, Coldbooks, at least it should be based on the description. It was ordered and is on its way.... It is a sad commentary on the book publishing industry.

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Stellarfire
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Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Switzerland
Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: Crossen]
      #5677507 - 02/13/13 11:37 AM

Quote:

As the text author of this book I find it outrageous that Amazon has the gall to charge you the $100 list price for a poor duplicate of the real "Sky Vistas." I'm afraid it is going to be increasingly difficult for would-be purchasers of "Sky Vistas" to find copies of the authentic thing rather than Amazon-type counterfeits.

Craig Crossen





I think it is time for Springer to intervene and to stop Amazon's POD-variant of Sky Vistas. There is no doubt, that Amazon, who apparently is selling a poorly duplicated POD-variant of the original Sky Vistas (at the same high price level like the sewn-bound hardcover original edition), burns the trustful buyers, and damages the reputation of Springer. I hope Springer will correct that unacceptable situation.

Stephan


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Crossen
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Reged: 07/14/08

Loc: Vienna
Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: Stellarfire]
      #5677955 - 02/13/13 04:22 PM

If there are any other viewers of this forum besides Mountain Monk and DrAl who have received poorly printed and bound copies of "Sky Vistas", or know of anyone else who has, it would be very helpful if they would tell me about it, either here on the forum or via personal message. My co-author Gerald and I are considering various courses of action we might take, and it would be helpful to know the extent of the problem.

Craig Crossen


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mountain monk
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/06/09

Loc: Grand Teton National Park
Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: Crossen]
      #5678008 - 02/13/13 04:59 PM

For clarity....

My copy says "SpringerWeinNewYork" on the cover (no spaces), and inside "copyright 2004 Springer-Verlag/Wein."

Craig: Since I am the author of three books, with another forthcoming, I am sympathetic and would be happy to help in any way that you suggest. I would echo David's remarks above: Sky Vistas is origional, packed with information, and an obvious labor of love. It deserves a quality presentation.

Dark skies.

Jack Turner


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Crow Haven
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Reged: 01/09/09

Loc: Oregon USA
Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: Crossen]
      #5678098 - 02/13/13 06:02 PM

I would dearly love to purchase a genuine 2003 copy but find it impossible to tell by any of the vendors' descriptions on Amazon if they have such. I have no interest in a POD copy by Amazon!
---Maya


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rockethead26
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Reged: 10/21/09

Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #5678103 - 02/13/13 06:05 PM

Quote:

I would dearly love to purchase a genuine 2003 copy but find it impossible to tell by any of the vendors' descriptions on Amazon if they have such. I have no interest in a POD copy by Amazon!
---Maya




Ditto here.


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DrAl
member


Reged: 01/05/07

Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: mountain monk]
      #5678105 - 02/13/13 06:06 PM

Even the "instant print" had SpringerWeinNewYork and the same copywrite. But the real Vienna printed copies have red pages right after the cover, are on very good glossy paper, and have sewn binding. The "instant print" are typically glued bindings, and the two versions I got do not have any red pages following the cover. I hope this helps for ID.
Al Smith


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mountain monk
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Reged: 11/06/09

Loc: Grand Teton National Park
Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: DrAl]
      #5678134 - 02/13/13 06:28 PM

Yes it does. Mine is not the genuine 2003 edition, alas. Thanks. Now I too will pursue a genuine edition.

Dark skies.

Jack


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CounterWeight
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Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Palo alto, CA.
Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: mountain monk]
      #5678142 - 02/13/13 06:32 PM

Maya, I think Powells has a copy... at least was still there last time I looked.

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turtle86
Pooh-Bah Everywhere Else
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Reged: 10/09/06

Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: CounterWeight]
      #5678342 - 02/13/13 08:53 PM

I ordered a copy from Amazon and immediately returned it for a refund once I saw that it was a POD. IIRC, there was no dust jacket (no big deal in itself), the paper was of mediocre quality, and the color plates were atrocious. I then ordered a copy from a German bookseller, and was happy to see that the pages were sewn and printed on high-quality glossy paper. Plus, the color plates were of much better quality and the book came with a dust jacket. I just checked my copy and it does have the red endpapers; that seems to be the easy way to tell whether the book is genuine. My advice would be to check before ordering from a bookseller to see if the book has red endpapers.

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rockethead26
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Reged: 10/21/09

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Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: turtle86]
      #5678894 - 02/14/13 07:38 AM

I also just ordered a copy from Cold Books in NY through Biblio.com.

They answered my inquiry positively about the red end papers, but failed to confirm that the binding is sewn. I took a chance and will return it if it's not the proper version. Fingers crossed.

Looks like Cold Books may have three more copies in stock.


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turtle86
Pooh-Bah Everywhere Else
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Reged: 10/09/06

Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: rockethead26]
      #5679041 - 02/14/13 09:45 AM

Quote:

I also just ordered a copy from Cold Books in NY through Biblio.com.

They answered my inquiry positively about the red end papers, but failed to confirm that the binding is sewn. I took a chance and will return it if it's not the proper version. Fingers crossed.

Looks like Cold Books may have three more copies in stock.




Also wanted to mention that the genuine edition has a bit of heft to it due to the thick glossy paper. Sounds like you're getting the right one. If so, you'll be very happy with it. Just a tremendous book.


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Crossen
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Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: turtle86]
      #5679743 - 02/14/13 03:28 PM

Quote:

I ordered a copy from Amazon and immediately returned it for a refund once I saw that it was a POD. . . . I then ordered a copy from a German bookseller, and was happy to see that the pages were sewn and printed on high-quality glossy paper. Plus, the color plates were of much better quality and the book came with a dust jacket. I just checked my copy and it does have the red endpapers; that seems to be the easy way to tell whether the book is genuine. My advice would be to check before ordering from a bookseller to see if the book has red endpapers.




The copies which I as co-author received right after the original printing do have red endpapers. This indeed does seem to be a very good litmus test for the authenticity of a copy of "Sky Vistas." Plus the binding should be sewn, and, as another poster pointed out, an original copy is VERY hefty because of the quality of the paper. I also believe that all original copies should have glossy dust jackets with the same front photo and back wording as the glossy hard covers themselves. I know that these dust jackets were part of the original press run. In fact even the unbound copy of the book that my editor gave me immediately after the book was printed also had the dust jacket.

Craig Crossen


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JCB
sage
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Reged: 10/04/04

Loc: France
Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: Crossen]
      #5680153 - 02/14/13 08:17 PM

Several weeks ago, I ordered a copy of Sky Vistas on the French site of Amazon.

My copy has no dust jacket, and no red pages inside cover. The pages are thicker than ordinary paper, but I wouldn't call them glossy (the ink is glossy !). I don't think the book is "very hefty", although it's very subjective.

On the other hand, the overall quality is very good, and it is marked "printed in Austria". The price was attractive, so even if it's not an original copy, I can't say I am shocked by what I received.

Jean-Charles


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Crow Haven
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/09/09

Loc: Oregon USA
Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: CounterWeight]
      #5680383 - 02/14/13 11:04 PM

Quote:

Maya, I think Powells has a copy... at least was still there last time I looked.




Thanks for the info Jim! I checked at Powells and then at Biblio and decided to roll the dice on the Biblio offering (from Cold Books) with the written stipulation about the red endpapers and glossy pages. Now the big "wait and see." I hope the book is a decently printed copy worth keeping. I am really looking forward to having one to enjoy with my wide field scopes.
---Maya


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Castor
sage


Reged: 03/26/08

Loc: GMT-6 / North
Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: Crossen]
      #5680561 - 02/15/13 01:44 AM

Quote:

If there are any other viewers of this forum besides Mountain Monk and DrAl who have received poorly printed and bound copies of "Sky Vistas", or know of anyone else who has, it would be very helpful if they would tell me about it, either here on the forum or via personal message. My co-author Gerald and I are considering various courses of action we might take, and it would be helpful to know the extent of the problem.

Craig Crossen



Dear Mr. Crossen,

I ordered my brand new copy of Sky Vistas (paid about USD$80) direct from Amazon.com on November 2011, precisely with the intention to get a mint one, since this was an important book for me. But when I received the book, I couldn't help but notice that it was definitely not printed on glossy paper, most noticeable on the color pictures. I was a bit disappointed because I recalled your remarks about the fine quality of the printing, but I thought it was just me. Now that I see other people complaining about the same issue and the comparisions with the genuine book, it's clear that it was not just my perception.

The copyright of my book reads: "2004 Springer-Verlag/Wien Printed in Austria". ISBN 3-211-00851-9 Springer-Verlag Wien New York. Pages on the inside cover (which is the only glossy part on the whole book) are white (not red) and the book is not heavy -no thick paper here. No dust cover was included with my book.

More than a year has passed from the date of purchase, so I don't think there is anything I can do anything about, but I thought I should mention it here. Thank you very much for your concern! I am an fan of your work and also have an original copy of Binocular Astronomy.

Warm regards,


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Stellarfire
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Switzerland
Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: Castor]
      #5680659 - 02/15/13 04:00 AM

I checked my genuine copy of Sky Vistas:

It has the red endpapers at beginning and end of book.

The following info is found at the beginning:
Copyright 2004 Springer Verlag/Wien
Printed in Austria
ISBN 3-211-00851-9 Springer-Verlag Wien New York

Oddly, the ISBN on back cover and back side of dust jacket differs from above ISBN and says ISBN 3-211-00851-7

The genuine edition is sewn-bound, the white filament is well visible in the fold, for example in the fold between pages 134/135.

One of the most helpful identification characteristics of the genuine Austria-printed edition is to know its exact weight. I just weighted it (including dust cover) on a precise digital balance, it says 1,627 grams (changes in air humidity may cause very slight differences from this reading, let's say up to about +/- 5 grams).

Hope these infos are helpful.

Stephan


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Crossen
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Reged: 07/14/08

Loc: Vienna
Re: Sky Vistas by Craig Crossen new [Re: Stellarfire]
      #5681820 - 02/15/13 03:45 PM

Quote:

I checked my genuine copy of Sky Vistas:

It has the red endpapers at beginning and end of book.

The following info is found at the beginning:
Copyright 2004 Springer Verlag/Wien
Printed in Austria
ISBN 3-211-00851-9 Springer-Verlag Wien New York

Oddly, the ISBN on back cover and back side of dust jacket differs from above ISBN and says ISBN 3-211-00851-7





This is very observant of you. I checked the one remaining bound copy of those I received from Springer just after the original first printing and it has the same discrepancy in ISBN numbers in the front pages and on the back cover and back dust jacket as yours. I had never noticed this before.

Craig Crossen


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