Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home page


Observing >> Solar Observing and Imaging

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)
drksky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: sullij1]
      #5527812 - 11/19/12 12:04 PM

Quote:

Piotr,

You said,

cheap when compared to other cameras (cheaper than big DMK).
The PGR's are good cams no doubt but it is a 1/3 inch chip compared to the QHY 1/2 inch and the DMK 51's 1 / 1.8 chip. These are big size differences.
You won't get full disks on larger scopes with that 1/3 inch chip.
So shure there will be price differences. All 3 of these cams have about the same frame rate. And all 3 "ARE" delivering good results on solar objects.

We all want a big 1/1.8 chip delivering 80 fps with the highest res, unfortunately it is not in the budget for many of us.




The PGR Blackfly is a 1/1.8 sized e2v sensor for an advertised $395 and claimed 60fps over GigE. How much cheaper do you want?

The Flea3 is the same chip with a USB 3.0 interface. It's quite a bit more expensive than the Blackfly, but still beats out the DMK51 by a couple hundred bucks and is 45fps faster.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
frolinmod
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/10

Loc: Southern California
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: drksky]
      #5528114 - 11/19/12 02:47 PM

Is the Blackfly for sale at the Point Grey web store yet? I wasn't able to find it there. For me, it's vaporware until it's there.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ValeryD
Vendor (Aries)
*****

Reged: 11/26/05

Loc: Kherson, Ukraine.
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5528138 - 11/19/12 03:02 PM

Quote:



e2v based cameras sell in Europe - quite cheap when compared to other cameras (cheaper than big DMK).




Piotr,

Can you, please, give us a link(s) to such places where these camera are in shops?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
drksky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: frolinmod]
      #5528142 - 11/19/12 03:04 PM

Quote:

Is the Blackfly for sale at the Point Grey web store yet? I wasn't able to find it there. For me, it's vaporware until it's there.




Still says Q4 2012. However, since they do have one camera using the same chip (the Flea 3) already for sale, I tend to not doubt that the Blackfly will be released. At that price, well...

All you have to do is look to find it on the PGR site.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sullij1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: frolinmod]
      #5528180 - 11/19/12 03:22 PM

Quote:

Is the Blackfly for sale at the Point Grey web store yet? I wasn't able to find it there. For me, it's vaporware until it's there.




Agreed, "Vaporware"!

I will be happy to buy one at that price point "when and if one ever appears"!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PiotrM
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: Poland
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: sullij1]
      #5528289 - 11/19/12 04:03 PM

You can get e2v based camera from:

1. IDS Imaging - http://www.ids-imaging.com and review
2. Ximea xiQ - http://www.ximea.com/usb3-vision-camera - and review

For IDS Imaging - check if there is a local dealer for your country. If not then pick one favorable to you or contact them directly (Optosoft is in Poland for example). They offer USB2/3 and probably GigE too with those sensors. I don't know how the prices look now, but the USB2 prices were falling down. They also offer Ruby line sensors, but at much higher prices. http://www.airylab.com did some testing too. Cameras supported by FireCapture and non-free (but HDD write-efficient) Genika.

Ximea xiQ is quite new, ~330 EUR for the USB3 set. Supported by SharpCap in initial stage (worked for me).


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
drksky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5529699 - 11/20/12 09:50 AM

Looking at these cameras, it looks like there's an optical window in front of the sensor. Is there an IR cut filter in there??

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PiotrM
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: Poland
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: drksky]
      #5529968 - 11/20/12 11:58 AM

Clear glass (unless you order IR-cutted version - which you shouldn't).

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
drksky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5529976 - 11/20/12 12:04 PM

That's what worries me. I think I'm going to get the e2v Flea3, but there is nothing in the specs that mention IR cut or no.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PiotrM
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: Poland
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: drksky]
      #5530168 - 11/20/12 01:25 PM

Point Grey doesn't rather put IR-cuts with mono cams (didn't seen that). And those windows can be easily removed if needed.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sullij1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: drksky]
      #5531245 - 11/20/12 10:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Piotr,

You said,

cheap when compared to other cameras (cheaper than big DMK).
The PGR's are good cams no doubt but it is a 1/3 inch chip compared to the QHY 1/2 inch and the DMK 51's 1 / 1.8 chip. These are big size differences.
You won't get full disks on larger scopes with that 1/3 inch chip.
So shure there will be price differences. All 3 of these cams have about the same frame rate. And all 3 "ARE" delivering good results on solar objects.

We all want a big 1/1.8 chip delivering 80 fps with the highest res, unfortunately it is not in the budget for many of us.




The PGR Blackfly is a 1/1.8 sized e2v sensor for an advertised $395 and claimed 60fps over GigE. How much cheaper do you want?

The Flea3 is the same chip with a USB 3.0 interface. It's quite a bit more expensive than the Blackfly, but still beats out the DMK51 by a couple hundred bucks and is 45fps faster.




After reading all the data the blackfly looks interesting. However, are these cameras currently functioning off Ethernet hub or are we also buying the powered hub for them requiring another power source? How much does the powered hub cost?
This white paper suggests a powered hub is necessary and that laptops require a switch. So now we add the cost of these onto our purchase?
http://www.1stvision.com/elearning/GigECameras_Myths_Facts.pdf

Where are we coming in price wise after all that?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
drksky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: sullij1]
      #5531261 - 11/20/12 11:03 PM

You mean as far as powering it over ethernet? You need to have a power injector. But, I'm not sure what the cost is.

I'm looking closer at the Flea3 for the higher speed of USB 3.0 and the simplicty of just having one cable.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PiotrM
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: Poland
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: drksky]
      #5531456 - 11/21/12 02:00 AM

Google for Ethernet power injector. Those are quite cheap boxes.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sullij1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5532174 - 11/21/12 12:33 PM

So the answer is yes, you need a seperate 12 volt or 120 Volt converter to the power injector. They seem to run from 25 dollars to 120 dollars.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
marktownley
Postmaster


Reged: 08/19/08

Loc: West Midlands, UK
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: sullij1]
      #5532700 - 11/21/12 05:28 PM

Quote:

We all want a big 1/1.8 chip delivering 80 fps with the highest res, unfortunately it is not in the budget for many of us.




Not necessarily Joe, some solar telescopes that have sweet spot issues perform alot better from an imaging point of view when used with a camera with a smaller chip...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tom and Beth
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/08/07

Loc: Tucson, AZ
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: drksky]
      #5532779 - 11/21/12 06:29 PM

Quote:

I have no problem with the 51 itself, other than the fact that the driver doesn't seem to get along with USB 3.0 ports and the manufacture seems very disinterested in fixing it.




Do you have any info on the Gig Ethernet version of the DMK51, DMK 23G274?

This seems rather intersting to me....


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sullij1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: Tom and Beth]
      #5532833 - 11/21/12 07:14 PM

Thanks Mark, point taken. But it would still be cool to have a big chip like that in the cam arsenal. I am certian I could find a use for it.

Edited by sullij1 (11/21/12 07:18 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PiotrM
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: Poland
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? [Re: Tom and Beth]
      #5533288 - 11/22/12 01:56 AM

Quote:

Do you have any info on the Gig Ethernet version of the DMK51, DMK 23G274?

This seems rather intersting to me....




A friend of mine is using the version with ICX445 for solar imaging. It works with no artifacts only if he isn't recording with max speed. When he lowers the recording speed somewhere to USB2 speed it works nicely (check for example here - Admiral_M user).

Faster/newer chip is required if you want something better/faster than the DMK51.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
marktownley
Postmaster


Reged: 08/19/08

Loc: West Midlands, UK
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5544383 - 11/28/12 06:50 PM

I decided to dig out this cam and have a play around with it again. What I really don't like is the control software that is bundled with it - reallllly basic... Does anybody know of any third party software, ideally free/shareware that will run it?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
drksky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: marktownley]
      #5545476 - 11/29/12 12:43 PM

You can try FireCapture, which has support for a pretty wide array of cameras.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)


Extra information
5 registered and 11 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Scott in NC, Phillip Creed 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 4853

Jump to

CN Forums Home




Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics