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StarWars
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Reged: 11/26/03

Loc: At the Gym >Spudtastic<
Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Jason H.]
      #5534666 - 11/23/12 12:19 AM


Breaking News!!


Curiosity found some debris from the Mars Global Surveyor Orbiter..


Case Closed....


Good night Chet. Good night David.....






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Andy Taylor
Twisted, but in a Good Way
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars [Re: Radom]
      #5534829 - 11/23/12 03:44 AM

Quote:

8 legs and green guts squished between the treads ....




Aww! I was hoping for tentacles.


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Mister T
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Andy Taylor]
      #5535114 - 11/23/12 09:35 AM

Squids have Tentacles

Octopi have Eighticles


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BillFerris
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Mister T]
      #5535340 - 11/23/12 11:58 AM

Quote:

8 legs and green guts squished between the treads ....
watch where you going bub!!




To paraphrase one of the great lines from John Carpenter's The Thing, I dunno what's in the sand, but it's weird and hacked off, whatever it is.

Bill in Flag


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Footbag
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: BillFerris]
      #5535829 - 11/23/12 04:26 PM

OK. Pure speculation here, so take it FWIW...
The experiment was with the SAM, so best case scenario, they discovered a microbe. More realistically, it is either basic organic molecules or methane. I'm thinking it is methane, and here's why... The SAM did it's first test and kept the partial sample for further testing. But it's now on the move.

I remember reading that in the past when they got potential methane in a sample, they decided to let the sample air out in the atmosphere and the methane disappeared. I'm thinking this is what they are doing right now. Seeing if the methane dissipates.

If it doesn't dissipate, then I believe they will announce the discovery of methane.

Had they discovered an organinc molecule, they wouldn't have moved the rover. They probably would've wanted to test the soil around the original sample.


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InterStellarGuy
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Reged: 06/25/08

Loc: Overland Park, KS
Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Footbag]
      #5535844 - 11/23/12 04:35 PM

Well it looks like JPL is throwing cold water on this even before it's announced:
here



"JPL spokesman Guy Webster made just this point today in an e-mail to TIME: “As for history books, the whole mission is for the history books,” he wrote. That’s not to say he rules out the possibility of truly big news. “It won’t be earthshaking,” he said in a later phone call, “but it will be interesting.”

Read more: http://science.time.com/2012/11/20/a-mars-announcement-for-the-history-books/...


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Qwickdraw
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5536681 - 11/24/12 06:24 AM

To me the absence of any biological trace is just as important and is "historical"

I know it may be anti climatic to many but the implications are never the less just as profound.


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Rick Woods
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5538114 - 11/25/12 12:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

This makes no sense. If they can't tell us yet then what is the point in coming out and saying they have something even?




I agree completely. Now it has to be really big or there is going to be Martian egg on some faces.




egg-zactly. At this point I am expecting something related to life on Mars, an something beyond just finding organic compounds in Martian soil, (organics have been found in meteors etc...so fining them on Mars to me wouldn't be that historic), anything short of that, to me anyway, will be a let down.




The yolk's on us. I'm betting Curiosity and Opportunity collided.


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Qwickdraw
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5538329 - 11/25/12 07:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

This makes no sense. If they can't tell us yet then what is the point in coming out and saying they have something even?




I agree completely. Now it has to be really big or there is going to be Martian egg on some faces.




egg-zactly. At this point I am expecting something related to life on Mars, an something beyond just finding organic compounds in Martian soil, (organics have been found in meteors etc...so fining them on Mars to me wouldn't be that historic), anything short of that, to me anyway, will be a let down.




The yolk's on us. I'm betting Curiosity and Opportunity collided.




First stoplight on Mars scheduled for launch in 2015


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StarWars
Mr. Postmaster Man
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Reged: 11/26/03

Loc: At the Gym >Spudtastic<
Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #5538656 - 11/25/12 12:28 PM Attachment (19 downloads)






Curiosity found the Sky Crane.... And it's in perfect shape!!

JPL will post on Ebay next week...


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InterStellarGuy
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Reged: 06/25/08

Loc: Overland Park, KS
Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: StarWars]
      #5540885 - 11/26/12 07:38 PM

More water throwing:
"This is going to be a disappointment," said Chris McKay, a NASA space scientist at Ames Research Center at Moffett Field, Calif. "The press description of the

SAM results as 'earthshaking' is, in my view, an unfortunate exaggeration. We have not (yet) found anything in SAM that was not already known from previous missions: Phoenix and Viking."


http://www.space.com/18626-nasa-mars-rover-secret-discovery-speculation.html


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Jason H.
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Reged: 11/23/07

Loc: Central Florida
Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5541005 - 11/26/12 08:42 PM

One may recall
"Experiments prompted by a 2008 surprise from NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander suggest that soil examined by NASA's Viking Mars landers in 1976 may have contained carbon-based chemical building blocks of life"

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/news/phx20100803.html

So I guess it comes down to what folks think "organic" means. Organic compound, water, peroxide, whatever, it's not alive or dancing-with-the-gangnam-bieber-minecraft, so most people won't give a _________ (except the few .)

Jason W. Higley


Quote:

More water throwing:
"This is going to be a disappointment," said Chris McKay, a NASA space scientist at Ames Research Center at Moffett Field, Calif. "The press description of the

SAM results as 'earthshaking' is, in my view, an unfortunate exaggeration. We have not (yet) found anything in SAM that was not already known from previous missions: Phoenix and Viking."


http://www.space.com/18626-nasa-mars-rover-secret-discovery-speculation.html




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Rick Woods
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Jason H.]
      #5541334 - 11/26/12 11:39 PM

Quote:

One may recall
"Experiments prompted by a 2008 surprise from NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander suggest that soil examined by NASA's Viking Mars landers in 1976 may have contained carbon-based chemical building blocks of life"

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/news/phx20100803.html

So I guess it comes down to what folks think "organic" means. Organic compound, water, peroxide, whatever, it's not alive or dancing-with-the-gangnam-bieber-minecraft, so most people won't give a _________ (except the few .)





That announcement was prefaced by a big mysterious teaser, just like this. And, when the actual finding was released, it was an absolute nuclear explosion; a real game changer.
It's strange, how few people took notice then, and how few remember it now. 30 years of cynical dogma cast into ruins, and almost no one paid attention.


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Qwickdraw
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Footbag]
      #5541574 - 11/27/12 06:58 AM

Quote:

OK. Pure speculation here, so take it FWIW...
The experiment was with the SAM, so best case scenario, they discovered a microbe. More realistically, it is either basic organic molecules or methane. I'm thinking it is methane, and here's why... The SAM did it's first test and kept the partial sample for further testing. But it's now on the move.

I remember reading that in the past when they got potential methane in a sample, they decided to let the sample air out in the atmosphere and the methane disappeared. I'm thinking this is what they are doing right now. Seeing if the methane dissipates.

If it doesn't dissipate, then I believe they will announce the discovery of methane.

Had they discovered an organinc molecule, they wouldn't have moved the rover. They probably would've wanted to test the soil around the original sample.




Trace methane at the level of several parts per billion have already been known to exist in the Martian atmosphere. At this point, I would assume finding trace in the soil would be expected and no surprise. It is currently unknown whether the Methane is from a geological source by an abiotic processes or the result of methanogenesis by Living micro organisms. In either case, Curiosity is able to make measurements that distinguish between different isotopologues of methane and determine more precisely which process or combination of processes is the source.


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simpleisbetter
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5541632 - 11/27/12 08:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

One may recall
"Experiments prompted by a 2008 surprise from NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander suggest that soil examined by NASA's Viking Mars landers in 1976 may have contained carbon-based chemical building blocks of life"

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/news/phx20100803.html

So I guess it comes down to what folks think "organic" means. Organic compound, water, peroxide, whatever, it's not alive or dancing-with-the-gangnam-bieber-minecraft, so most people won't give a _________ (except the few .)





That announcement was prefaced by a big mysterious teaser, just like this. And, when the actual finding was released, it was an absolute nuclear explosion; a real game changer.
It's strange, how few people took notice then, and how few remember it now. 30 years of cynical dogma cast into ruins, and almost no one paid attention.




Meh... A nuclear explosion and real game changer for what? That those compounds and materials exist there? It doesn't prove anything concrete, other than they're there. Just like this announcement, the press, and to a lesser extent NASA are doing nothing more than sensationalizing.


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Rick Woods
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5541992 - 11/27/12 12:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

One may recall
"Experiments prompted by a 2008 surprise from NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander suggest that soil examined by NASA's Viking Mars landers in 1976 may have contained carbon-based chemical building blocks of life"

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/news/phx20100803.html

So I guess it comes down to what folks think "organic" means. Organic compound, water, peroxide, whatever, it's not alive or dancing-with-the-gangnam-bieber-minecraft, so most people won't give a _________ (except the few .)





That announcement was prefaced by a big mysterious teaser, just like this. And, when the actual finding was released, it was an absolute nuclear explosion; a real game changer.
It's strange, how few people took notice then, and how few remember it now. 30 years of cynical dogma cast into ruins, and almost no one paid attention.




Meh... A nuclear explosion and real game changer for what? That those compounds and materials exist there? It doesn't prove anything concrete, other than they're there. Just like this announcement, the press, and to a lesser extent NASA are doing nothing more than sensationalizing.




I think you're talking about something else.
I'm referring to the discovery of perchlorates in the Martian soil by Phoenix. These have the property of destroying organic materials when heated to temperatures far less than those used by the Viking experiments to prepare their samples. For over 36 years, the failure of the GCMS experiment to detect organics (after such heating of the samples) has been used to shut the book on the Viking discovery of biologic activity. No organics, no life, right? Whoops!... They destroyed the organics before they tested for them.

I call that a game-changing discovery. I wish the science from the Phoenix probe would be published in one place.


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simpleisbetter
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5542038 - 11/27/12 12:37 PM

Actually no Rick, I was talking about that. It is a discovery of the realization that those tests couldn't be conducted, but it didn't conclusively prove or lead to proving anything beyond that observation, one way or the other. That's why I find it as anti-climatic as all the other announcements. Sorry for the tone of my reply, but wasn't feeling too good when I got up this morning, and as stated, I'm way beyond tired of the scientific community creating these sensational announcements that come off in the end as nothing more than Geraldo Rivera and Al Capone's vault...

Edited by simpleisbetter (11/27/12 12:41 PM)


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dickbill
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/30/08

Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5542220 - 11/27/12 02:18 PM

But there must be some organics on Mars, from comets or asteroids at least.
Also, meteorit ALH 84001 contained organics:
"...Several tests for organic material have been performed on the meteorite and amino acids and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) have been found. The debate over whether the organic molecules in the meteorite are in fact of exobiologic origin or are due to abiotic processes on Mars or contamination from the contact with Antarctic ice on Earth is still ongoing..."

Any asteroid containing organics falling straight into the polar cap would be burry deep and in ideal conditions to preserve the organics in dry ice (low temperature, no oxydizers and no radiations or UV). Since Mars had ice at every latitute in its past, that could have happened a lot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALH84001


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D_talley
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: dickbill]
      #5543401 - 11/28/12 08:32 AM

Well here it is:

A week ago NASA came out with an announcement that they may have discovered something on Mars:



John Grotzinger, the principal investigator for the Curiosity mission, spoke with NPR and caused a serious commotion because of this quote:



Grotzinger says they recently put a soil sample in SAM, and the analysis shows something remarkable. "This data is gonna be one for the history books. It's looking really good," he says.



He also cautioned that it would take a few weeks for them to examine everything and be sure the big discovery was real.





Today NASA came out with a statement that said:



NASA Social Media Manager Veronica McGregor to explain that the whole thing was really just a really big misunderstanding. "What Grotzinger was actually trying to convey is that Curiosity’s data over her entire two-year mission will further our knowledge of Mars more than ever before, making it a historical mission,"





Do you smell something!!!



Sounds like they are trying to cover up what they found, made a mistake of talking about it before the Feds took control of it.



I guess we will never know what they found.


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simpleisbetter
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Re: "Historical" huge find Curiosity Just Made on Mars new [Re: D_talley]
      #5543452 - 11/28/12 09:19 AM

Yep, I hear Geraldo's looking for an assistant...

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