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General Astronomy >> Beginners Forum

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orion61

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Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: Color in Orion new [Re: omahaastro]
      #5536469 - 11/23/12 11:47 PM

I am thinking it may be a bit of both, mostly wishfull thinking, I have very good acuity and with a 16" scope I could see a strong shift to the green side and the faintest hint of pink but I was hoping as much as seeing..
But as long as you are out there and excited is enough...Your mind can play some amazing tricks when desire is high enough...


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Atl
professor emeritus
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Reged: 04/13/12

Re: Color in Orion new [Re: orion61]
      #5536699 - 11/24/12 07:05 AM

OK...just got in. With a 90mm mak I get a white cloud and with a 12" dob I am still getting the blue center and pink outlying areas with maybe a hint of green. I am guessing it to be real. I also get pink in the flame and horsehead nebulas. I can't resolve any real details, but the dim nebulosity (did I invent that word?) is tinged with pinkness.

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Achernar
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Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
Re: Color in Orion new [Re: Atl]
      #5536956 - 11/24/12 10:09 AM

I never have seen pinks in IC-434. Once I was looking at it through a very large telescope with a H-beta filter, and the nebula looked reddish. Of course the Horsehead was there too, like a black horse. I only seen it this way once, from a very dark location.

Taras


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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/29/10

Loc: SE Indiana
Re: Color in Orion new [Re: Atl]
      #5536997 - 11/24/12 10:41 AM

Seeing the Horsehead is a feat,with color is astounding!No wonder scepticism is being expressed.

I remember there was a German girl who was able to recognize people at much greater than the usual distance;this was tested and verfied. Much rarer than one in a million.


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Atl
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Reged: 04/13/12

Re: Color in Orion new [Re: BigC]
      #5537076 - 11/24/12 11:22 AM

I didn't see the horse head I just saw a mistiness in that area...I could not discern the horse itself. Locating it is simple...but seeing the horse is impossible for less than an 18" I am told.

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Dave Mitsky
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Reged: 04/08/02

Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
Re: Color in Orion new [Re: Atl]
      #5537127 - 11/24/12 11:53 AM

B33 has been detected as a notch in IC 434 through H-beta-filtered giant binoculars by reliable observers.

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2594

A number of people have seen it through small refractors.

I've observed the Horsehead Nebula through filtered 8" and 10" Dobs and on a few occasions without filters through larger Dobs. It was a rather easy target through Tom Clark's 42" Beast from the Chiefland Astronomy Village a couple of years ago.

Dave Mitsky


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Atl
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Reged: 04/13/12

Re: Color in Orion new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #5537143 - 11/24/12 12:06 PM

Is a hydrogen beta worth the purchase? Does it make that big a difference?

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Atl
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Reged: 04/13/12

Re: Color in Orion [Re: Atl]
      #5537175 - 11/24/12 12:26 PM

I am answering my own question. Here is a performance test of major filter types on nebula. Very good article.
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org/resources/by-dave-knisely/filter-performa...


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GlennLeDrew
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Re: Color in Orion new [Re: Atl]
      #5537207 - 11/24/12 12:57 PM

If one is seeing any color at all in such an excessively low surface brightness glow as IC434, which is so far below the color detection threshold as to be impossible for any human who ever lived (I will boldly claim ), then one is definitely experiencing an illusory effect. And by extension, reports of red in other of the lower surface brightness nebulosities (including the outer parts of M42) are suspect.

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David Knisely
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Reged: 04/19/04

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Re: Color in Orion new [Re: Atl]
      #5537260 - 11/24/12 01:42 PM

Quote:

Is a hydrogen beta worth the purchase? Does it make that big a difference?




Yes, it can help a lot in seeing the Horsehead. It is best used in larger apertures, but can help for a few objects in smaller ones. It isn't the best filter for nebulae in general, but for the Horsehead, the California, Barnard's Loop, and some other faint targets, it is a real game changer. Clear skies to you.


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jfaust75
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Reged: 10/04/11

Loc: Central Florida
Re: Color in Orion new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5537266 - 11/24/12 01:45 PM

I couldnt chime in on IC434 as ive never seen horsehead or flame except in pictures, but as far as m42 goes i definately see blue and green in my 8" even from a not so dark site(maybe not the pink or any other red....thats probably my imagination)

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MikeBOKC
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Reged: 05/10/10

Loc: Oklahoma City, OK
Re: Color in Orion new [Re: jfaust75]
      #5537310 - 11/24/12 02:21 PM

In a conversation this weekend with a very very experienced observer with far more eyepiece time than I will ever log he used a term I had not heard before, but which was perfect for this thread -- "averted imagination." Sometimes our desire to see something very dim and vague is such that we THINK we see it where it is supposed to be. I would put the horsehead near the top of the averted imagination list. Nothing wrong with that of course -- the hunt is a big part of the fun.

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omahaastro
sage


Reged: 08/30/06

Loc: Omaha, NE
Re: Color in Orion new [Re: MikeBOKC]
      #5537317 - 11/24/12 02:24 PM

Although I think we're getting off topic... the original account was of color within IC434 (which personally, I've never seen any hint of).

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Atl
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Reged: 04/13/12

Re: Color in Orion new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5537425 - 11/24/12 03:50 PM

Quote:

If one is seeing any color at all in such an excessively low surface brightness glow as IC434, which is so far below the color detection threshold as to be impossible for any human who ever lived (I will boldly claim ), then one is definitely experiencing an illusory effect. And by extension, reports of red in other of the lower surface brightness nebulosities (including the outer parts of M42) are suspect.




Actually the reading I have done on this supports seeing color with large diameter scopes of good quality...which I have. I have also noted that several manufacturers of large dobs make this claim also. Color sensitivity is highly individual.


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jfaust75
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Reged: 10/04/11

Loc: Central Florida
Re: Color in Orion new [Re: omahaastro]
      #5537429 - 11/24/12 03:51 PM

Quote:

Although I think we're getting off topic... the original account was of color within IC434 (which personally, I've never seen any hint of).




No, the OP was an account of color in M42 the IC434 came much later in the thread.


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Atl
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Reged: 04/13/12

Re: Color in Orion new [Re: jfaust75]
      #5537432 - 11/24/12 03:53 PM

Also note I am not claiming brilliant flashing colors in the nebula...just a tinge...

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jfaust75
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Reged: 10/04/11

Loc: Central Florida
Re: Color in Orion new [Re: Atl]
      #5537448 - 11/24/12 04:01 PM

Im hoping it stays clear tonight so i can look again to be positive of what i am seeing in M42. my memory may be playing some of the color up, but I do believe i seethe core as an electric blue with green spreading out of the core. I am also not claiming to see this huge nebulosity spilling out of my FOV with a huge amount of color(but black and white with grey not at all what im seeing)

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Meadeball
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Reged: 10/22/12

Loc: Midlothian, Virginia
Re: Color in Orion new [Re: jfaust75]
      #5537571 - 11/24/12 05:24 PM

Being no opthalmologist, I do remember from my school years that the retina uses its cone-shaped cells that deliver color in daylight, and reverts over to the rods that deliver better sensitivity but no color at night.

That said, could it be possible that Atl's seeing conditions (and aperture) delivered such a bright view of M42 that some of the cones became active and were able to discern a tinge of color? If he only claimed this once we could all just say it was wishful thinking or "mind games," but since he "waxed scientific" and performed a test using his 90mm Mak and found he was seeing no color there yet his claimed colors remained in the Dob, I'm supportive of the possibility that this could occur.

Now, I just wish it would happen to me. My deep-sky universe has always been the same shade of gray-green.

Meade

Edited by Meadeball (11/24/12 05:25 PM)


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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: Color in Orion [Re: Atl]
      #5537581 - 11/24/12 05:34 PM

Quote:

I am new to observing. I was out tonight with my 12" Dob. Normally Orion is a colorless fan shaped cloud. Tonight after a few hours viewing I went to Orion. In the center was cobalt blue, and the edges of the fan were very pink. I had my wife look at it but she saw no color. Every time I looked the color was unmistakable. Is this my imagination? Why couldn't my wife see it? I also noticed more detail than any other viewings, and it seemed larger.




Most don't see color unless they have large dobs, very dark site, and well dark adapted eyes for large pupils (hence maybe younger also).

First time I have seen color in M42 (besides blue from OIII filter) was in a webster 24" dob.

I have seen red lagoon nebula in my 17.5" dob but only from a very dark site.


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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: Color in Orion [Re: Atl]
      #5537595 - 11/24/12 05:43 PM

Quote:

OK...just got in. With a 90mm mak I get a white cloud and with a 12" dob I am still getting the blue center and pink outlying areas with maybe a hint of green. I am guessing it to be real. I also get pink in the flame and horsehead nebulas. I can't resolve any real details, but the dim nebulosity (did I invent that word?) is tinged with pinkness.




Pink from the horsehead? I coulds just barely see this in my 17.5" with extremely well dark adjusted eyes (no red flashlights and no looking at any far away strret lights from a very dark site in rural area,


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