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Equipment Discussions >> Binoviewers

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Scott99
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Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: New England
Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5534067 - 11/22/12 02:53 PM

Great report! and good luck with your upcoming surgery.

I got to use a friend's 2-inch Siebert BV when they first came out and I liked it right away. I like the way he builds things lightweight, and the views with the 36mm Observatory ep's were amazing. Many great 3-D views of the large galaxies and other big DSO's. The bottom-line review on these is (IMO of course), if you think you'd enjoy 2-inch BV views, go for it. This is a very high quality optical item.

I decided to go with Mark V's for myself, mainly because I only BV for high-powered planetary, I have no need for 2-inch.


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Bob S.
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Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: Scott99]
      #5534583 - 11/22/12 10:50 PM

Astro Buds, Not trusting my initial impressions, I had to go out tonight with a bit better seeing and see if I got different results with the Siebert's and the Baader's. The answer is that there was no significant difference in findings tonight from last night. However, when I put the Baader's in my 12.5" f/5 Newtonian with a 1.7x GPC coupled with a Baader 1.7x Newtonian Coma Corrector, the CA was significantly less on the limb of the Moon and things appeared to have a somewhat darker background. I don't know if the mirror diagonal of the Baaders is inducing some kind of chromatic abberations but I could definetly see it more in my refractor than my reflector where the Baader diagonal was not utilized. I do not know much about optical theory and cannot hazard a guess as to why the Baaders are performing differently with and without the Baader diagonal? Anyway, more fine views of the Moon and now Jupiter and the GRS and multiple ovals that came into view about 1.5 hours ago. Jupiter has been fun to look at with both BV's in two different kinds of scopes.

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RAKing
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Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5535438 - 11/23/12 12:52 PM

If I had to hazard a guess, I would look at that 1.7x Newtonian Coma Corrector for some of your extra correction. I used to own one and it worked great with my Mark V binos - but I am more of a double star/DSO guy and I avoid looking at the moon as much as possible.

Owning one set of super binos is great; owning two must be even better.

Cheers,

Ron


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Bob S.
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Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: RAKing]
      #5535857 - 11/23/12 05:00 PM

Hooray, I got my 2" TV 20mm Nagler Type 5's in today and Harry Siebert was right on the money. No problems with IPD issues and they are so narrow that you can fully close the split between the BV pairs that makes it 55mm. I tried them just looking through the glass in the BV's and I only have about 1.5mm of extra IPD that I can play with. I now have every ep I will ever need for any project I can think of... and then some

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faackanders2
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Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5535952 - 11/23/12 05:54 PM

I wonder if 20mm 100 AFOV explore scientifics would work in 2" binoviewers? Just curious since I don't have them, but the eyepieces are at their lowest $299 sale yet.

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Fred1
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Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: faackanders2]
      #5536045 - 11/23/12 06:47 PM

Quote:

I wonder if 20mm 100 AFOV explore scientifics would work in 2" binoviewers? Just curious since I don't have them, but the eyepieces are at their lowest $299 sale yet.



Since they have less than a 35mm field stop they should work fine with no vignetting but be sure that your interpupilary distance can accommodate them. The wider your head, the more comfortable the view.


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Bob S.
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Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: Fred1]
      #5536394 - 11/23/12 10:39 PM

Astro Buds, The 20mm Nagler T5's were the absolute charm in the Siebert 2" BV's. The Moon, Jupiter, Double Cluster and Pleides all showed beautiful images. I am primarily a Newtonian guy but the wide fields in my 6.3" refractor were absolutely beautiful and different than what I usually get in my narrower FOV Newts. The 2" 20mm Naglers and Siebert Elites were made for each other. BTW, I did notice a slight bit more chromatic abberations on the limb of the Moon with the 20mm Naglers vs. 24mm Pans and I attribute this to the design of the eyepieces. It was barely noticeable but there. On the Terminator there was no hint of CA. I can't wait for the Moon to finally set and to see what the 20mm Naglers show binocularly in dark skies. I suspect after getting a hint with a more than half full Moon that the views are going to be jaw dropping. Bob

Edited by Bob S. (11/24/12 08:26 AM)


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DRodrigues
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Reged: 08/08/11

Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5536910 - 11/24/12 09:41 AM

Bob,
Now it would be also interesting to compare the Nagler's 20mm T5's on the Mark V - you just need 2 adapters 2" to T and 2 to 1.25"... The AFOV probably would decrease a bit since the 20mm T5 fieldstop is a bit more than the 27mm of the 1.25" format. Unfortunately these eps have too lower eye-relief to eye-glass users like me...


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Bob S.
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Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: DRodrigues]
      #5536976 - 11/24/12 10:25 AM

Quote:

Bob,
Now it would be also interesting to compare the Nagler's 20mm T5's on the Mark V - you just need 2 adapters 2" to T and 2 to 1.25"... The AFOV probably would decrease a bit since the 20mm T5 fieldstop is a bit more than the 27mm of the 1.25" format. Unfortunately these eps have too lower eye-relief to eye-glass users like me...




David, I am about tapped out when it comes to buying more eyepieces or parts for these binoviewers. I needed to do all of this exhaustive testing to figure out what was what. I hadn't experienced such a frenzy of testing as has occured in the past couple of months in a while. It is now time for me to settle back on this front and just enjoy the views. I will now leave it to stronger hands to continue the quest for knowledge Bob


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faackanders2
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Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5537524 - 11/24/12 04:56 PM

Quote:

Hooray, I got my 2" TV 20mm Nagler Type 5's in today and Harry Siebert was right on the money. No problems with IPD issues and they are so narrow that you can fully close the split between the BV pairs that makes it 55mm. I tried them just looking through the glass in the BV's and I only have about 1.5mm of extra IPD that I can play with. I now have every ep I will ever need for any project I can think of... and then some




Congrats and enjoy them!


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RAKing
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Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5537592 - 11/24/12 05:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Bob,
Now it would be also interesting to compare the Nagler's 20mm T5's on the Mark V - you just need 2 adapters 2" to T and 2 to 1.25"... The AFOV probably would decrease a bit since the 20mm T5 fieldstop is a bit more than the 27mm of the 1.25" format. Unfortunately these eps have too lower eye-relief to eye-glass users like me...




David, I am about tapped out when it comes to buying more eyepieces or parts for these binoviewers. I needed to do all of this exhaustive testing to figure out what was what. I hadn't experienced such a frenzy of testing as has occured in the past couple of months in a while. It is now time for me to settle back on this front and just enjoy the views. I will now leave it to stronger hands to continue the quest for knowledge Bob




I worked things out with my calculator and the FOV with the 20T5 is almost identical to the FOV with my 24 Pans. Yes the magnification is up a bit and the exit pupil is smaller, so you might see blacker sky.

Bottom line: I'm not sure I would bother trying to narrow them down and shoehorn them into my Mark V if the view is that close to the Panoptics.

Now having said that - if the view Bob is getting with his 20T5 is even close to the view I get with my 24 Pans, I can easily see why he is so happy. There have been nights where that was the only pair of eyepieces I used for hours. They are that good!

Cheers,

Ron


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Bob S.
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Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: RAKing]
      #5537626 - 11/24/12 06:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Bob,
Now it would be also interesting to compare the Nagler's 20mm T5's on the Mark V - you just need 2 adapters 2" to T and 2 to 1.25"... The AFOV probably would decrease a bit since the 20mm T5 fieldstop is a bit more than the 27mm of the 1.25" format. Unfortunately these eps have too lower eye-relief to eye-glass users like me...




David, I am about tapped out when it comes to buying more eyepieces or parts for these binoviewers. I needed to do all of this exhaustive testing to figure out what was what. I hadn't experienced such a frenzy of testing as has occured in the past couple of months in a while. It is now time for me to settle back on this front and just enjoy the views. I will now leave it to stronger hands to continue the quest for knowledge Bob




I worked things out with my calculator and the FOV with the 20T5 is almost identical to the FOV with my 24 Pans. Yes the magnification is up a bit and the exit pupil is smaller, so you might see blacker sky.

Bottom line: I'm not sure I would bother trying to narrow them down and shoehorn them into my Mark V if the view is that close to the Panoptics.

Now having said that - if the view Bob is getting with his 20T5 is even close to the view I get with my 24 Pans, I can easily see why he is so happy. There have been nights where that was the only pair of eyepieces I used for hours. They are that good!

Cheers,

Ron




Ron, Thanks for working out the math. I am not inclined to figure out FOV's and such. I think between my 36mm Siebert's, 24mm Pans, 20mm Naglers, and 18mm BGAO's I may have all the ep's I need for my binoviewers? I do have matched sets of Brandons from 32mm down to 12mm but I am thinking that they may be unnecessary since my primary scope will be a 20" f/3 Newtonian? The Brandons are perfect for the refractor but are not really meant for fast scopes. Bob


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faackanders2
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Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5537714 - 11/24/12 07:15 PM

20" f3.0 with 2" binoviewers. Views must be awsome!

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Bob S.
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Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: faackanders2]
      #5537730 - 11/24/12 07:30 PM

Quote:

20" f3.0 with 2" binoviewers. Views must be awsome!




Don't know yet. The 20" will be completed in three weeks. Should be awesome. What is really weird is that this 20" was designed to do astrovideo at least 50% of the time. However, I have absolutely gotten reignighted with visual astronomy. I guess I am getting back into my 120+ viewing sessions/year for the next couple of years. With my solar observing adding to this number, this whole process could get absolutely stupid So much to see, so little time. My only sage advice is, don't get old, it really cramps your observing trajectory


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faackanders2
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Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5537836 - 11/24/12 08:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

20" f3.0 with 2" binoviewers. Views must be awsome!




Don't know yet. The 20" will be completed in three weeks. Should be awesome. What is really weird is that this 20" was designed to do astrovideo at least 50% of the time. However, I have absolutely gotten reignighted with visual astronomy. I guess I am getting back into my 120+ viewing sessions/year for the next couple of years. With my solar observing adding to this number, this whole process could get absolutely stupid So much to see, so little time. My only sage advice is, don't get old, it really cramps your observing trajectory




Is it a Webster scope? I like the low eyepiece height.

P.S. Hope your solar observing is a smaller scope, so you don't set your town on fire.


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Bob S.
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Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: faackanders2]
      #5538057 - 11/24/12 11:44 PM Attachment (42 downloads)

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

20" f3.0 with 2" binoviewers. Views must be awsome!




Don't know yet. The 20" will be completed in three weeks. Should be awesome. What is really weird is that this 20" was designed to do astrovideo at least 50% of the time. However, I have absolutely gotten reignighted with visual astronomy. I guess I am getting back into my 120+ viewing sessions/year for the next couple of years. With my solar observing adding to this number, this whole process could get absolutely stupid So much to see, so little time. My only sage advice is, don't get old, it really cramps your observing trajectory




Is it a Webster scope? I like the low eyepiece height.

P.S. Hope your solar observing is a smaller scope, so you don't set your town on fire.




No, It is a Lockwood-mirrored JP Astrocraft. It is about 90% complete in this picture.

Edited by Bob S. (11/24/12 11:50 PM)


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RAKing
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Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm [Re: Bob S.]
      #5538361 - 11/25/12 08:00 AM

Quote:

Ron, Thanks for working out the math. I am not inclined to figure out FOV's and such. I think between my 36mm Siebert's, 24mm Pans, 20mm Naglers, and 18mm BGAO's I may have all the ep's I need for my binoviewers? I do have matched sets of Brandons from 32mm down to 12mm but I am thinking that they may be unnecessary since my primary scope will be a 20" f/3 Newtonian? The Brandons are perfect for the refractor but are not really meant for fast scopes. Bob




Bob, It sounds like you have the field covered pretty well.

If I owned a pair of Sieberts, the only other eyepieces I would like to try would be a pair of 27 Panoptics. They are very compact for 2 inch eyepieces and would give me the wide field I want for my variable star estimates (47x, 1.44* FOV w/the 1.3 OCA in my TEC 140).

Now I just have to decide if the one-year wait and the hefty price tag are worth adding one more pair of eyepieces to my mix.

BTW - I have always admired John's "Sweet Sixteens". He does great work and I'm sure you will love your 20 incher.

Cheers,

Ron


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Scott99
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Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5540320 - 11/26/12 01:37 PM

Quote:

Astro Buds, The 20mm Nagler T5's were the absolute charm in the Siebert 2" BV's.




Wow, that is an incredible setup with either apo or big Newt! I would definitely get in line to take a look. enjoy.


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Bob S.
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Re: Siebert Elite 45's versus Baader Mark V's w/ 24mm new [Re: Scott99]
      #5560431 - 12/08/12 06:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Astro Buds, The 20mm Nagler T5's were the absolute charm in the Siebert 2" BV's.




Wow, that is an incredible setup with either apo or big Newt! I would definitely get in line to take a look. enjoy.




Scott, These big binoviewers with the 20mm T5 Naglers absolutely blow me away. Last night I was looking at Jupiter and the Double Cluster in Perseus. I just wanted to spend hours looking at the Double Cluster. Siebert has said that the 45's would bring back the 3D effect that I had initially gotten when using binoviewers over a decade ago and he was so right. I was using a 12.5" f/5 Zambuto/Starstructure which in itself is a wonderful performer but with the Siebert 45's loaded with those 20mm Naglers, the views were simply show stopping. I think the FOV is supposedly the same for 24mm Pans but the magnification and just "spacewalk" feeling in stereo was mesmerizing. I can't wait until I get to try these binoviewers in my new 20" f/3 Lockwood/JP Astrocraft that will be completed next week. I have provisions for different UTA height changes that will allow for the most intense magnifications with the BV's. Should be a LOT of FUN! Bob


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