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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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JCB
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What are the best astro binoculars ?
      #554514 - 08/11/05 09:43 AM

I have two excellent binoculars : the Takahashi 22x60 and the Zeiss 10x42 FL.
I like them very much, but they have some drawbacks for me. The Taks have only a 47° AFOV , which is somewhat frustrating , and the Zeiss is sharp across a moderate part of the AFOV, which is not bothersome for handheld daytime viewing, their main purpose, but again frustrating at night.
Reading the recent posts by John Finnan, I think now a good astro binocular in the 50 - 70 mm range could ideally complement the Taks.

My requirements are :
- a large apparent field of view. I know that many members of this list consider the AFOV as unimportant, which REALLY surprises me, but it's a major wish for me.
- A wide sharp area in the AFOV. I'm not interested in knowing how bad is the image at the edges, but how large is the zone of best sharpness.
- The absence of field curvature. Many binoculars have a wide zone of sharpness provided one refocuses the off axis stars, but then the eyes are no longer at rest on axis. Even if my eyes can easily accommodate, I prefer looking only at infinity.
- A 4 mm exit pupil. I am so accustomed to the pinpoint stars in the Taks that I'm afraid a big exit pupil won't provide sharp stars in comparison.
- A good eye relief

I don't care about :
- TFOV because if I want a wide TFOV I use my naked eyes
- Magnification because I already have 22x binoculars which provide me detailed views
- Weight because my binoculars are always tripod mounted.
If you disagree with my way of thinking ( and I do know that some people here will strongly disagree) please be kind enough as to not tell me.

I have spotted these binoculars :
- Fujinon 10x50 FMTR-SX. They seem near perfection. Is their eye relief better than the Fujinon 16x70 ? They may have a too large exit pupil for my taste, and are somewhat redundant with the 10x42 I already own.
- Nikon SE 12x50. Excellent, have a good eye relief, but not a very wide AFOV (60° is less than my 10x42)
- Leica Trinovid/Ultravid 12x50. Very wide 69° AFOV, but I don't know the effective eye relief, and how wide is the area of best sharpness. Expensive though.
- Docter Nobilem 15x60. Seems very good, but AFOV is limited to 60°, and I don't know the eye relief.
- Fujinon 16x70 FMT-SX. Well known. I believe the eye relief is a bit short, and they exhibit some CA.
- Nikon 18x70. Excellent 72° AFOV, but exhibit some CA. I don't know their eye relief. I'm also afraid that some samples are slight lemons, because I've read things like fuzzy bright stars, or spikes on bright stars, which is typically the sign of a non perfect optical device. Expensive too.

I would appreciate any advice or information.

Jean-Charles


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KennyJ

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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: JCB]
      #554719 - 08/11/05 11:47 AM

Dear Jean Charles ,

I wish you all the very very best with your quest here , but I suspect YOU KNOW enough about binoculars and about the various models available to realise that your REQUIREMENTS contain several specifications which it could almost be said to be impossible to obtain ALL IN ONE MODEL !

You ask for :

1. LARGE AFOV
2. WIDE SHARP AREA within that AFOV
3. ABSENCE of field CURVITURE
4. Specifically a 4mm exit - pupil
5. GOOD eye - relief ( presumably meaning >15mm ? )

It seems to me that this is asking quite a lot :-)

As I said Jean Charles -- GOOD LUCK -- and if you really do find a bino whihc satisfies ALL these criteria , I think there might be one or two other members here who would like such a model too !

P.S -- I have a hunch that the Nikon 12 x 50SE might come the closest , all things considered.

Regards , Kenny

--------------------
If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton





Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera


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Glassthrower
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: KennyJ]
      #554730 - 08/11/05 11:52 AM

Quote:


What are the best astro binoculars ?





The kind that come with the neck-strap and padded "leatherette" carrying case.



MikeG

--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.



Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!



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gatorengineer
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: JCB]
      #554949 - 08/11/05 01:37 PM

I have similar tastes in Binos myself large AFOV.

I have 18x70 astrolux, and love them, like them alot better than 16x70 fuji's... there is a refurb pair of ebay for I think $699. Many dont seem to like them though.

I have a Miyauchi Binon 7x50 (70 AFOV), I like it, and am growing more fond of it all the time.

Bresser 10x50's ultra-wide AFOV (around 85 degrees), very short eye relief, not sharp all the way out, but for the spacewalk feeling they are fun.

Zeiss 15 x60's (carl) nice glass, but I dont use it that much because if I go tripod I go 18x70 astrolux.

Steiner 20x80's nice glass, 60 something degree field of view fair eye-relief.

Sard 6x42' WW2 military glass 72 afov. great glass.

Tasco 124's and Sears 6287's 70's vintage 10 degree 7x50s, can be had on ebay for less than $100

German Flak 10x80's 80 degree afov, phenomenal spacewalk feeling, not coated (I have a pair in the process of being coated though)

Fuji 10x60HB roofies, I like them 60 degree or so AFOV.

Havent seen nikon 12x50's but the other SE's I have seen are really sweet.

Just some thoughts

Mark

--------------------
16" & 20" Dobs
4" Triplet Refractor
10" LX200R OTA
8"F20 Dall Kirkham
12.5" F3.5 Newt
CGE
Lots of binos---
Nikon 8x30, 10x35, Prostars,10W/18 x 70 astrolux; 10x50 Fujis. Collectors items 12x60 BLC, 10x80 Flaks, Gas Masks, US Mark 28, 30, 41, 43's
Telescopes Past - 8" Stf Mak, C8, Meade LX10-10", SN8, TAL150K, Orion 150MC, Jason 60mm refractor, ATM 6" F8, WO 110FLT, 92mm Off Axis Newt, Nikon 20x120 bino's, 15x110 Boarderguards, Kuhne Flaks


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aporigine
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: JCB]
      #554987 - 08/11/05 01:54 PM

(Post deleted by aporigine ... recommendation exceeded 70mm aperture)
cheers aporigine

--------------------
Beauty is in the eyepiece of the beholder.

Edited by aporigine (08/11/05 01:56 PM)


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Mark9473
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: JCB]
      #555006 - 08/11/05 02:04 PM

Jean-Charles,

have you investigated the Optolyth Royal 15x63?
They are roof prism, but use Abbe-Koenig prisms which have total internal reflection (i.e. don't require a metallized surface).

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici


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Rich N
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: JCB]
      #555017 - 08/11/05 02:10 PM

Hi Jean-Charles,

I agree with your comments. There just doesn't seem to be a perfect astro binocular. I have the Zeiss 10x42FL, Fujinon 10x70FMT-SX, Nikon 12x50SE, Leica 12x50BA and Swarovski 8.5x42EL.

At night I don't notice the short eye relief of the Leica 12x50BA so much that is is a problem. I switch between the Leica and Nikon and usually end up using the Leica more in an evening. I'm very happy with my Zeiss 10x42FL. If you don't mind going to lower power you might consider the Swarovsky 8.5x42EL. It is my favorite low power bincoular for astro observing.

I have not tried the Zeiss 12x56, but I'll bet it would be very nice for astronomy. However, it may well have a bit of a soft edge of field.

Rich


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KennyJ

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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: Rich N]
      #555083 - 08/11/05 02:43 PM

Mark ,

Doesn't the 15x Royal only have a 3.7 degree TFOV ?

If so , it will fall well short of JC's prefered WIDE AFOV.

Actually I had an afterthought for the Canon IS 15 x 50 , even though the exit -pupil falls short of the required 4mm

This Canon , reportedly has VERY good edge performance , and quite wide AFOV.

Regards , Kenny

--------------------
If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton





Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera


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Henry Link
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: KennyJ]
      #555235 - 08/11/05 04:37 PM

Jean-Charles,

I tend to agree with Kenny about the 12x50 SE. I have an 18x70 Astrolux which I like very much. It does have a wider apparent field and longer eye relief than the 16x70 Fujinon, but you can't expect Tak like performance from an f/4 achromat. If you're feeling adventurous enough to enter the collectors' market the CZJ 12x50 Nobilem "Spezial" was an extraordinary binocular with huge prisms and a triplet objective and has many of the characteristics you're looking for. It was multi-coated. but the light transmission is lower than the SE. The apparent field is 66 degrees with 13mm of eye relief. I used it's 8x50 twin back in the 80's and often wish I had it back.

Henry

Henry


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JCB
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: Henry Link]
      #555342 - 08/11/05 05:48 PM

Kenny,

You are right, I'm asking quite a lot, but I'm sure that some binoculars offer quite a lot too . In a sense, all the models I've listed meet more or less my requirements, and I'm sure I could be very happy with any of these toys. I just wonder which one I would pick if I decided to buy a new pair.

About the eye relief, I should have said "not too short eye relief", instead of "long eye relief". I often observe without my glasses, but a long eye relief provides an interesting comfort when I look above 45°, because I'm not forced to lean my head back and press my face against the oculars to see the entire field.

If one day I buy a Canon, it will be the new 10x42 IS. I have just thought it could almost be included in my previous list.

Finally, I thank you for telling me what your choice would be.


Mark (gatorengineer)

You have a nice collection !
Could you just elaborate a bit more on why you prefer the Astroluxe to the Fujinon ? Is it due to the wide AFOV ?


Mark 9473,

No I have not investigated the Optolyth 15x63. I just have checked that their TFOV is 4.1° hence the AFOV about 62°. Not so bad. But I have no idea of their optical qualities.


Rich and Henry,

thank you for your comments and advices, this is precisely the kind of reply I hoped.

Quote:

Jean-Charles,

I tend to agree with Kenny about the 12x50 SE. I have an 18x70 Astrolux which I like very much. It does have a wider apparent field and longer eye relief than the 16x70 Fujinon, but you can't expect Tak like performance from an f/4 achromat.


Good point. I've never thought about that before.

Jean-Charles


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gatorengineer
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Posts: 725
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: JCB]
      #555456 - 08/11/05 07:10 PM

I personally think the astrolux is sharper than the fuji, and the wider field of view seals it.... relative to the post on the optolyth, I would really like to see one, I have a 7x50 porro of theirs, its narrow, 7 degrees, but wow is it sharp....

--------------------
16" & 20" Dobs
4" Triplet Refractor
10" LX200R OTA
8"F20 Dall Kirkham
12.5" F3.5 Newt
CGE
Lots of binos---
Nikon 8x30, 10x35, Prostars,10W/18 x 70 astrolux; 10x50 Fujis. Collectors items 12x60 BLC, 10x80 Flaks, Gas Masks, US Mark 28, 30, 41, 43's
Telescopes Past - 8" Stf Mak, C8, Meade LX10-10", SN8, TAL150K, Orion 150MC, Jason 60mm refractor, ATM 6" F8, WO 110FLT, 92mm Off Axis Newt, Nikon 20x120 bino's, 15x110 Boarderguards, Kuhne Flaks


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mooreorless
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: gatorengineer]
      #555495 - 08/11/05 07:32 PM

Hi,I had the Optolyth 7x50 Alpin porro and did not think it was very sharp,bad sample maybe?
Steve M

--------------------
Regards,Steve M

"the eights are better" Jim Carmichel of Outdoor Life magazine


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mooreorless
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: KennyJ]
      #555507 - 08/11/05 07:38 PM

Quote:

Dear Jean Charles ,

I wish you all the very very best with your quest here , but I suspect YOU KNOW enough about binoculars and about the various models available to realise that your REQUIREMENTS contain several specifications which it could almost be said to be impossible to obtain ALL IN ONE MODEL !

You ask for :

1. LARGE AFOV
2. WIDE SHARP AREA within that AFOV
3. ABSENCE of field CURVITURE
4. Specifically a 4mm exit - pupil
5. GOOD eye - relief ( presumably meaning >15mm ? )

It seems to me that this is asking quite a lot :-)

As I said Jean Charles -- GOOD LUCK -- and if you really do find a bino whihc satisfies ALL these criteria , I think there might be one or two other members here who would like such a model too !

P.S -- I have a hunch that the Nikon 12 x 50SE might come the closest , all things considered.

Regards , Kenny




After using a Walter's Nikon 12x50 SE I would have to agree with Kenny J and Henry on this one.
Steve M

--------------------
Regards,Steve M

"the eights are better" Jim Carmichel of Outdoor Life magazine


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holger_merlitz
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: JCB]
      #555707 - 08/11/05 10:08 PM

Hi Jean-Charles,

I have recently used a Chinese 15x60 for astro on a tripod. Don't worry - I won't suggest you that one, but one thing once again became clear: A good astro binocular needs angled oculars in order to be enjoyable. What about the Miyauchi 22x60? With standard oculars it has got 3 degs. field (but I don't know how much of that is sharp). If I remember correctly, some people are using oculars taken from old CZJ Deltrentis binoculars (15mm focal length) with this glass to achieve 68 degs. AFOV at 20x power.

Best,
Holger


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John F
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: JCB]
      #557256 - 08/13/05 01:05 AM

Jean-Charles,

If you plan on mounting them why limit yourself to a 10x or a 12x? And since you've already got a 22x, the 18x Nikon would probably not be the best choice. I compared the two once and there was not enough difference in magnification to make it seem worth it to me to view the same objects through both of them. If you did not have the 22x60s, or if you planned to sell them, then the 18x70s would be one of your best choices.

So I think that the logical choices for you would be the the 15x60 CZJ/Docter Nobilem, the 15x60 W. German Zeiss B/GAT or the 16x70 Fujinon FMT-SX2.

The original Fujinon 16x70s had 12mm of eye relief and the newer FMT-SX2 version has 16mm of eye relief. This is really an excellent all around binocular and its price is a real bargain compared to its competition. And like the 18x72 Nikons, it also has a 4.00-degree true field but it has a somewhat narrower ("only" 64 degree) apparent field. However, on the plus side most observers think it has a flatter field and that the stars are sharper towards the outer edge than they are in Nikon 18x70s (which is still an excellent binocular).

Phil Harrington, the author of the book Touring the Universe with Binoculars, published a review of all the high end 60-70mm binoculars in Astronomy Magazine about 2 and a half years ago. He is a long time Fujinon 16x70 user and he rated those #2 and a little ahead of the Nikon 18x70s which he rated #3. He rated the Zeiss B/GATs # 1 and said something to the effect that he had never night sky before in the way that those binoculars revealed it to him. The bad news is that they were very expensive. I think I paid around $1750 for my new pair when I bought them and then the price later creeped up to $1995 and then the binoculars were discontinued about a year and a half ago. Not many were sold in the US but many were sold in Europe and they do show up from time to time on eBay.

The Carl Zeiss Jena/Docter Optics 15 x 60 Nobilem is also a very nice binocular. I don't think those are made anymore either. I believe that Docter Optics is now selling a 15x56 as their high power binocular. Maybe they think that their 56mm aperture size and higher 15x power will catch the eye of people who might be considering purchasing Zeiss's latest flagship binocular -- the 12x56 Victory IIs. Anyway, used 15x60 Nobilems also show up from time to time on eBay or the used market for about 50% - 60% of the price of a pair of used Zeiss 15x60 B/GATs. Performance wise I'd rate the Nobilems (or at least the pair that I owned for 9 years) as at least 90% as good as the 15x60 B/GATs. The 15x60 Nobilems by the way had the B type eyepieces with longer eye relief. I don't remember what the published figure was but I think it was around 15mm. Also, they advertised their AFOV at 69 degrees and their TFOV at 4.50 degrees. Given how they compare to the Zeiss 15x60 B/GATs I suspect it was more like 65 or 66 degrees which is still quite large and satisfying.

All factors considered I think that your best bet is still the 16x70 Fujinon FMT-SX2s. They are least expensive of the options, you can get a new pair with a warranty for less than used pairs of CZJ/Docter or Zeiss 15x60s. If you are not happy with them you can always resell them and won't have to take a big financial loss. In other words, there is very little risk if you choose this option and a lot to gain. I think that you will be happy with them and they will fit very nicely between your 10x42s and 22x60s.

Also, since you asked, the eye relief of the Leica 12x50 Ultravids is 13.8mm and the eye relief of the Nikon 18x70s is 15mm.

John Finnan

--------------------
Leica 7x42 Ultravid
Nikon 7x50 Prostar
Swarovski 8.5x42 EL
Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe
Leica 12x50 Ultravid
Zeiss 15x60 B/GAT
Takahashi 22x60 Astronomer
NP-127 w/Bino Vue


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lighttrap

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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: John F]
      #557524 - 08/13/05 10:44 AM

This is not a response to the original poster, or to anyone, really. It's just a personal comment. The more binoculars I use for astronomy, the more convinced I become that for mounted use for astronomy, binoculars need angled occulars. I divide my binocular astronomy into 2 distinct categories. There's handheld, which is what I enjoy most. And then there's mounted use. The 2 are so different as to be almost different pursuits.

When I think of the best handheld binocular for astronomy, I think of the Nikon SE 12x50 or 10x42. Period. After using dozens of binoculars, I can flat state that the one bino I never plan to get rid of is the SE 12x50, and I'm seriously considering again getting others in the SE line to keep forever.

When I think of the best mounted binoculars, I'm so drawn to angled occulars that I don't even consider straight through units, even though I've used the Fujinon FMT-SX 16x70s for years. My opinion of the best mounted binoculars starts with the Miyauchi 71mm Saturns because they have a long enough focal length not to be plagued by the CA that criples some other contenders. They have better contrast than any bino I've ever tested. However, their relatively narrow FOV, modest aperture, and high price are not for me.

The legendary Zeiss B/GAT 15x60s have previously been something of a Holy Grail with me, but they're practically unobtainable, they cost too much, and they don't fit either of my models for observing, being too high powered to handhold, and being too uncomfortable to use without a large, clunky parallelogram mount. More and more, that's what I hinge my astronomy binocular purchases on. Will it require use of a bulky parallelogram mount? I own a good one, but find that I use it less and less. In fact, I've owned something like 7 specialty binocular mounts ranging from homemade p'gram mounts to mirror mounts to a Unimount Deluxe. I'm basically at a point of rejecting the whole concept that a good astro bino should require a specialty mount, and much prefer the freedoms of a simple alt-az fork mount. I used to think exactly the opposite, and may change my mind next week. But, at the moment, I feel pretty strongly, that for me, at this particular time, binos requiring a fancy mount are not what I'm after. If you filter the market that way, the choices tend to narrow themselves pretty quickly.

To me, the best bino for mounted observing has not yet been invented. There are a lot of good 2nd best choices, but none are truly best, and all involve some compromises. That's the thing to keep in mind with binoculars, and optics in general. It's all about finding a set of accepible compromises and figuring out what you can live with, and what you can live without. Oddly, it's becoming easier for me to rationalize doing without mounted binocular astronomy.

Mike

--------------------
18" Starsplitter II f/4.5
8" Hardin Dob f/6
C5 workhorse mini SCT f/10 or f/6.3
70mm TV Ranger dual purpose birding/astro
77mm Leica Televid APO
16x70 Fujinons on UA Deluxe Mt.
12x50 Nikon SE
8x30 Nikon E2s
and many others


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Joe Ogiba
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: lighttrap]
      #557531 - 08/13/05 10:57 AM

My best handheld astro binoculars are my 8x,10x and 12x Canon IS binoculars and my best mounted astro binocular is the Apogee RA-88-SA's .

Joe

--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED
Meade 102ED APO
Orion EON 72
120ST
Apex 127
C6 XLT
CR150
C9.25
XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL
Canon 10x42L IS WP
15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45
Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.


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ngc6475
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: Joe Ogiba]
      #557597 - 08/13/05 11:52 AM

I'm going to back Mike up on this one. The Nikon 12x50SE is an ideal all-around astronomical bino. It has comfortable eye relief, a respectable 5 degree field of view, exhibits modest CA, and it is comfortable to hand hold for long periods of time. It also has Nikon's outstanding optics, magnesium construction, and focuses cleanly and sharply. My second choice would be the Fujinon 16x70 binos. They would require mounting, of course, but they also possess higher magnification, comfortable ER, sharp optics and a 4 degree fov. The images are sharp across most of the fov in these glasses, although CA is more evident than in the Nikons. The question of "how much CA is too much" has to be answered by the individual because it is usually a subjective issue. For me, the Fujinon's level of CA is acceptable because I do not spend a lot of time viewing the moon and planets in binoculars, and I am not particularly offended by a small bit of CA in bright stars, either. I must say I have never had the privelege of observing through the Zeiss 15x60 B/GAT binos, therefore I cannot give any opinion on them, but it may be an issue that is moot, as they are not widely available. There have been many threads that will provide much more detailed reviews on these two binoculars that can be searched out or found by checking the links Ed Z maintains. I would recommend checking them out. Good luck!

--------------------
Walter

"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
-Mark Twain



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Mark9473
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: John F]
      #557969 - 08/13/05 05:12 PM

Quote:

The Carl Zeiss Jena/Docter Optics 15 x 60 Nobilem is also a very nice binocular. I don't think those are made anymore either. I believe that Docter Optics is now selling a 15x56 as their high power binocular.



Their online documentation contradicts this, see:
http://www.docter-germany.com/fernglas/nobilem/nobilem.pdf
(scroll down for the English text)

Quote:

Performance wise I'd rate the Nobilems (or at least the pair that I owned for 9 years) as at least 90% as good as the 15x60 B/GATs.



that's always good to know :-)

Quote:

The 15x60 Nobilems by the way had the B type eyepieces with longer eye relief. I don't remember what the published figure was but I think it was around 15mm. Also, they advertised their AFOV at 69 degrees and their TFOV at 4.50 degrees. Given how they compare to the Zeiss 15x60 B/GATs I suspect it was more like 65 or 66 degrees which is still quite large and satisfying.



See the current specs in the link above: eye relief 15mm, TFOV 4.1 degrees, AFOV 62 degrees.

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici


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JCB
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Re: What are the best astro binoculars ? new [Re: Mark9473]
      #558109 - 08/13/05 07:32 PM

Holger,

I don't have a very high opinion of Miyauchi, but maybe I am entirely wrong. In several forums, I can see people who are very happy with Miyauchi, and others who are disappointed. I've read here something like that again about the 7x50. This suggests some wide manufacturing tolerances. I have more confidence in companies like Nikon or Fujinon.


John,

Thank you for your analysis, that's very interesting.
A few years ago, the Zeiss Classic 15x60 was my "dream binocular". Unfortunately, it was too expensive for only a 50% increase in magnification relative to my 10x40 binoculars. Because my favourite astro target is the moon, the Taks were far better and less expensive.
Now I could afford the Zeiss, but even on the used market they remain more expensive than other competitors, as you have pointed out.

About the Nobilem 15x60, I have realized that there were several versions of this model. Older versions were perhaps optically better than the new ones.

About the Fujinon, I understand now there is probably a confusion between the SX and the SX2 versions. EdZ in his review measured the eye relief at about 18 mm, but the recess of the lenses was 9 mm, so the usable eye relief was only 9mm. But I think it was the SX version, and people who complain about the eye relief may have also the SX version and not the SX2. This point must be clarified.
There is also the CA issue. I am not afraid to see some CA on the moon or on terrestrial viewing, because I have the Taks for these purposes, but the presence of CA means that some of the energy is removed from the Airy disc and spread in the rings. Even if this effect remains invisible on stars at 16x, a slight decentering of the optical components has the same effect, and their sum can produce a lack in sharpness. In other words, with F/4 achromat doublets, it is easier to achieve a perfect 12x50 binocular than a perfect 16x70. This may explain the praises for the Nikon 12x50 SE.


Mike,

Among the acceptable compromises I can live with, for me, at this particular time, I think I will put straight viewing.

Jean-Charles


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