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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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Joe Cepleur
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/18/10

Loc: Dark North Woods
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: TahoeNoob]
      #5545937 - 11/29/12 06:11 PM

The mount likely sticks due to old, gummy grease. Clean it thoroughly, and replace with Mobile 1 Synthetic Grease. It's perfect in cold climates, because it works low temperatures.

The open worm gear must be coated *not* with the Mobile 1. Use dampening grease to prevent backlash. Someone should pipe in about the right brand and weight.


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TahoeNoob
sage
*****

Reged: 10/31/12

Loc: Sierra Nevada
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5546596 - 11/30/12 02:02 AM

I got it almost completely taken apart. The old grease is all gummy. I don't have any of that Mobile 1, so I'll clean everything up and then sit tight until I get some. (I can't use White Lithium Grease?) I assume it's ok to take the old grease off with acetone. I don't see how that would hurt anything, except for maybe the rubber gaskets which I won't clean that way.

I noticed that the RA's exposed worm gear was being run dry. Is that a problem? I'd rather continue to run it dry, if it won't hurt anything. That way I won't get grease on my hands every time I touch it! If I use grease, what type of grease should be used to prevent backlash?

I'm not completely sure how the Dec slow-mo works yet. There's no worm gear. It's got a spring loaded mechanism. Maybe it's got limited travel. I'll have to take a closer look at it tomorrow. Whatever's going on, it seems very strange.

I haven't taken apart the RA slow-mo stuff yet. It needs to be taken apart too. It's sticky. The correct tool to use would be a small spanner wrench, which I don't have. Hmmmmm! I might be able to get it apart with a pair of vice grips and a paper towel used for padding. (I don't want to take a screw driver and whack it!)

Dec slow-mo:


RA:


Edited by TahoeNoob (11/30/12 02:31 AM)


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TahoeNoob
sage
*****

Reged: 10/31/12

Loc: Sierra Nevada
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: TahoeNoob]
      #5548099 - 12/01/12 12:12 AM

Does it have to be Mobile One, or is any motor oil ok? How about the weight? Doe it matter? I'm also still waiting to find out what type of grease prevents backlash, although I'd like to avoid putting grease on exposed parts, if I can.

The mount is all cleaned up. All I have to do is line up my lube, and I'll be ready to start reassembling.


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TahoeNoob
sage
*****

Reged: 10/31/12

Loc: Sierra Nevada
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: TahoeNoob]
      #5548102 - 12/01/12 12:13 AM

Hmmmm, "Mobile 1 Synthetic Grease!" I guess that's not the same thing as motor oil.

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Joe Cepleur
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/18/10

Loc: Dark North Woods
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: TahoeNoob]
      #5548121 - 12/01/12 12:32 AM

Quote:

Hmmmm, "Mobile 1 Synthetic Grease!" I guess that's not the same thing as motor oil.




Yes; GOOD CATCH -- "Grease," not "motor oil."

I'll let someone who knows better than me expound on dampening grease for the worm, what type or whether to skip it. You could always finish everything else in the mean time. This would be the last step.


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TahoeNoob
sage
*****

Reged: 10/31/12

Loc: Sierra Nevada
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5548164 - 12/01/12 01:24 AM

I found a short thread on lubes: Short Thread on Lubes

The two lubes that I saw mentioned are Super-Lube and Krytox. Not sure if that's what you put on the worm gear though.

I guess it would be nice if I could find what I need at Ace Hardware, or maybe Home Depot.


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desertrefugee
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/06/07

Loc: Arizona
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: TahoeNoob]
      #5548569 - 12/01/12 10:53 AM

It certainly wouldn't be a disaster if standard non-damping grease were used. You might even find the backlash adjustable enough to be perfectly usable. And hang tight

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Bill Griffith
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/12/09

Loc: Ca.
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: TahoeNoob]
      #5548636 - 12/01/12 11:43 AM

Tahoe,
A belated welcome!! Great thread.

Dupont Krytox has the consitency of engine assy. grease. May be considered on the slightly expensive side for the amount received though.

Krytox is a standard (personal opinion)for space flight hardware applications it will stay lubrious in extreme temp. deltas and is approved in coating (mirror) chambers because of it's null outgassing characteristics.

Hence, I use Krytox on focusers collimation screws; anything NEAR optics. ( my experience)

On mounting equip. I still use an ENGINE assy. grease on shafts, washers, bearings and worm gears because of the absence of tolerance influence.

I especially like ENGINE assy. grease in an exposed worm/spur gear application because of the very thin film application. The ENGINE assy. grease wicks/wipes off easily with alcohol and a wipe. Then reapplied easily. I change out exposed worm/spur grease frequently. Enclosed worm/spur is a different matter

ANY grease is a great grit magnet.

We all probably find our favorites and there is no absolute right or wrong, just personal preferences.

Bill

Edited by Bill Griffith (12/01/12 12:55 PM)


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bremms
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/31/12

Loc: SC
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: Bill Griffith]
      #5548677 - 12/01/12 12:09 PM

Krytox is good stuff. It's a Flouroploymer grease/ lube with a couple of different thickness base stocks. It is vacuum rated and comes in a range of thicknesses, with or without EP modifiers and anti corrosion. I have a tube of GPL 205 , GPL226 and another at work that might be GPL225.
DO NOT get it on optics, it is very hard to remove. Ordinary solvents won't work on Krytox.


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bremms
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/31/12

Loc: SC
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: bremms]
      #5548685 - 12/01/12 12:14 PM

I like Slick 50 grease for worm gears. Its tacky and says in place really well. Unfortunately, it isn't made anymore. Mobil 1 grease is good or go to a Grainger and get some NLGI 2 or 3 tacky grease.

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Joe Cepleur
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/18/10

Loc: Dark North Woods
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: desertrefugee]
      #5548857 - 12/01/12 02:02 PM

Quote:

It certainly wouldn't be a disaster if standard non-damping grease were used.




Certainly not a disaster. Could always clean it off later.

Quote:

You might even find the backlash adjustable enough to be perfectly usable.




The equatorial mount of my Jason 313 has become close to unusable since removing the original dampening grease. The good news is that the original grease froze so hard in cold weather that the scope became close to immobile. With Mobile Synthetic, everything turns so freely that even the weight of the dangling slow mos can rotate the mount. (The slow mos do not dangle freely; they favor a certain curve.) Adjusting the tension between the worm gears has not changed this. So, I've learned that dampening grease matters, and am following this thread looking for answers.


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TahoeNoob
sage
*****

Reged: 10/31/12

Loc: Sierra Nevada
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5549067 - 12/01/12 04:35 PM

Does anybody know anything about Napa Sil-Glyde Lubricating Compound?

This morning I stopped by both the hardware store and the local motor parts store. Neither place had the brand names that I was looking for. The guy at the motor parts store was really nice and swore that Sil-Glyde would work perfectly. He thought the grease you guys are recommending would be too thick. Anyway, after a full twenty minute course in all things grease, Grease Talk 101, I felt obligated to buy a 4oz tube! On the label it says: High film strength. Stays put. Water repellent. Won't run or melt. Effective from -20* to +600*F. Prevents freezing. Harmless to rubber.


I also found an old tube of Pedro's Syn-Jection Grease mixed in with all my bicycle tools. On the label it says: Ultra Performance Synthetic Grease. Superior water and corrosion resistance. Structural stability for longer lasting performance. 100 percent synthetic means reduced friction and low wear.


Now that I have two greases, I'm not sure which one to use!


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tim53
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: TahoeNoob]
      #5549098 - 12/01/12 05:07 PM

Y'all know you mean "damping" not "dampening," right?

You want it to wobble less, you're not really trying to make it wet.

Tim


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desertrefugee
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/06/07

Loc: Arizona
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5549113 - 12/01/12 05:18 PM

Quote:

The equatorial mount of my Jason 313 has become close to unusable since removing the original dampening grease.... So, I've learned that dampening grease matters, and am following this thread looking for answers.




I would just offer up that damping grease is not a magic elixir. If the machining tolerance of a mount's gearset is off to such a degree that it depends on the viscosity of added lubrication to reduce a significant amount of mechanical "slop", then that's not an ideal condition.

I'll still maintain that axis performance should be completely controllable with the mechanical adjustment provided in the assembly - regardless of the choice of lubrication. If not, perhaps a better mount specimen or model might be advised for demanding use.


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TahoeNoob
sage
*****

Reged: 10/31/12

Loc: Sierra Nevada
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: desertrefugee]
      #5549195 - 12/01/12 06:26 PM

As far as the exposed worm gears are concerned, is running them completely dry a bad idea?


Why do I think "dampening" might be correct? "The vibrations were damped," sounds wrong to me.

This is going to bother me until I finally get off my lazy rear and look it up, three weeks from now. Lay and lie; whose and who's; it's and its; good and well. Ugh! Honestly, I could care less. I care! LOL


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PiSigma
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/14/09

Loc: North Carolina
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: TahoeNoob]
      #5549201 - 12/01/12 06:31 PM

Shock absorbers on vehicles are more correctly called dampers not dampeners.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dampers


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actionhac
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/09/08

Loc: Seattle
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: TahoeNoob]
      #5549220 - 12/01/12 06:43 PM

I've been meaning to order from here:
http://www.nyelubricants.com/products/damping.shtml

At the bottom of the page "Damping grease sample kit" would be a good thing to start with to get the right one.

I have a tube of outboard motor gear lube that I think belonged to Christopher Columbus its dried out to the perfect viscosity and works well but its not the same as damping grease.

Robert


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tim53
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: PiSigma]
      #5549225 - 12/01/12 06:45 PM

Quote:

Shock absorbers on vehicles are more correctly called dampers not dampeners.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dampers




They need to add:

6. Star Trek: Inertial Dampers (though if you watch the show enough, you'll see some of the characters say "Dampeners" as often as Dampers. But maybe the really are trying to wet something (their pants, perhaps?), instead of stop it from wiggling?

-Tim.

Edited by tim53 (12/01/12 06:45 PM)


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tim53
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: tim53]
      #5549228 - 12/01/12 06:46 PM

For binocular focusers, I've heard Chap Stick recommended as a damping grease.

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TahoeNoob
sage
*****

Reged: 10/31/12

Loc: Sierra Nevada
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? [Re: tim53]
      #5549316 - 12/01/12 07:41 PM

From the same dictionary: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dampen?s=t

2. to dull or deaden; depress: to dampen one's spirits.

Is it possible that we're all right?


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