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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
broke my new Fujinons; where to repair?
      #5546775 - 11/30/12 08:16 AM

Dropped my beloved Fujinon 10x50 fmtr-sx last night.
One of the internal optical elements has a big chip, visible directly by looking in the objective end of the right bino.
The view throught the right ocular is a spiderweb of reflections. Totally unusable now. Is this a factory repair only? How do I send them for repair? Perhaps BillC has the answer? HELP! ( I bought them 3 months ago from Eagle Optics.


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RichD
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/07

Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5546784 - 11/30/12 08:29 AM

Nooooo! Only 3 months old, it was just a baby!

I really don't know what the best option for you now is. If you had Fujinon repair and replace the prism it would likely cost you more than the new bino. Cory Suddarth at Suddarth optical could fix it, but he would need a new prism (or eyepiece lens or whatever is busted).

If he or someone he knows or you know has a Fuji 10x50 that is beyond repair then maybe it could be cannibalised, possibly even a 7x50 could be used. Bill, Cory?


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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: RichD]
      #5546874 - 11/30/12 09:45 AM

I'm just trying not to think about it.....
Really, RichD? Replacing the prism costs more than a new bino?
There goes my hope for repair!?


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RichD
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/07

Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5546953 - 11/30/12 10:38 AM

well i've never had to do it, but I think it would be likely that a new prism cluster from Fujinon (they almost certainly wouldn't sell you just one) would be hundreds of dollars, then it needs to be installed, collimated etc.

We really need Bill C here!


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Rich V.
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Reged: 01/02/05

Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5546956 - 11/30/12 10:41 AM

I'm sure Cory Suddarth could get the necessary parts for the repair. You might also contact Baker Marine who is the factory authorized Fujinon USA repair facility. Too bad the Fujinon 30 yr. warranty doesn't apply to dropped optics.

I wouldn't freak out until I talked with a qualified repairman.

Rich


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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: Rich V.]
      #5547016 - 11/30/12 11:34 AM

I'll contact Baker this afternoon, if BillC doesn't have a better idea. I'm looking around online, and can't find any in stock anywhere, so replacement isn't even an option just now. No binos for a while, it seems.

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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5547024 - 11/30/12 11:38 AM

They were in the front passenger seat of my car, but leaning against the door. I opened the door from outside the vehicle, and boom!- they tumbled right out. A short fall, but a bad landing. I can hear the little piece of glass move around inside when I move the binos.

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rydberg
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 02/25/04

Loc: Richmond, KY, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5547081 - 11/30/12 12:13 PM

I can hear, after the description of the sound, a collective clenching of posteriors around here...

Hoping that it's an easy fix,
Marco


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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: rydberg]
      #5547107 - 11/30/12 12:26 PM

Yes, I'll just wait and hear what BillC has to say before I get too worried. I know it'll cost me, though.

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Gordon Rayner
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/24/07

Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5547139 - 11/30/12 12:43 PM

Did you try Texas Nautical?

Did the brittle glue crack? Almost certainly, thus freeing the prism to move and chip. I have several 7 x50 MT/MTR/FMT/FMTR , which were dropped on boats, with chipped prisms , which have languished, without surgery, and some spares. I wonder if the prism is the same as in the 10 x 50? I have never seen, used, or worked upon the 10 x 50. Bent metal under the "armor" ? Or, are those leatherette covered?

Monocular use? Or, sell online, so I can buy them at low price?


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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5547194 - 11/30/12 01:08 PM

Rubber armored. Nothing bent. Not even a mark on the outside.
I'm not so sure it's the prism that's chipped. It may be one of the inner lens elements. Impact was at the rear shoulder, near the right ocular. If you look in the front objective, you see the circular field of view, and along the edge of this view is an area where glass has flaked off, just adjacent to the impact point. So, are there any lenses back there, or is that the prism? (The ocular itself appears unaffected, and the diopter adjustment turns normally.)


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RichD
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/07

Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5547196 - 11/30/12 01:09 PM

Maybe a prism set from one of your 7x50s would fit Gordon?

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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5547202 - 11/30/12 01:11 PM

The front objective is completely untouched, by the way; no problem there.

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RichD
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/07

Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: RichD]
      #5547205 - 11/30/12 01:12 PM

And it sounds like an eyepiece lens is cracked if I understand correctly. There are 6 lenses in the 10x50 fmt oculars.

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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: RichD]
      #5547299 - 11/30/12 02:09 PM

It's hard to tell exactly what is chipped, not knowing the internal construction, but yes, it looks like a lens chip to me. But viewing from the ocular end, I see nothing broken inside at all. The chip is only visible from the objective end.

I just spoke with Brian at Baker Marine. The news is good.
I'm sending the bino to him. It looks like I'll get fully repaired for under $200, maybe $150 or even $125. He says there are 4 prisms. Each is $25. Lenses, I didn't ask.
But he seemed to say that there is a base fee of about $80, plus the cost of the glass (lens or prism). I'm not really clear on that, exactly, but it seemed reasonable. Much more than that, and it's not really feasible to repair.


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Gordon Rayner
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Reged: 03/24/07

Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5547350 - 11/30/12 02:51 PM

Usually, there are no lenses between the last prism and the (usually rotating)eyepiece. So, looking backward through the objective lens, one rotates the focus of the corresponding eyepiece. If the chip(s) or crack(s) also rotate(s), it is in the eyepiece. If not, then the damage is in one or more of the prisms.

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RichD
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/07

Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5547356 - 11/30/12 02:59 PM

That's great news, very fair price.

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BillC
on a new path
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Reged: 06/04/04

Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: RichD]
      #5547540 - 11/30/12 05:09 PM

"Much more than that, and it's not really feasible to repair."

If it's of the MT, MTR or FMT or FMTR series . . . Wrong!

BillC


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The Ardent
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 10/24/08

Loc: Virginia
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5547558 - 11/30/12 05:29 PM

Did you contact Fujinon?

The address is in NJ, not far to drive.


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edwincjones
Close Enough
*****

Reged: 04/10/04

Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: The Ardent]
      #5547576 - 11/30/12 05:43 PM

Quote:

Did you contact Fujinon?

The address is in NJ, not far to drive.




I would be very surprised if they EVER get back to you

edj


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Rich V.
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Reged: 01/02/05

Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: edwincjones]
      #5547642 - 11/30/12 06:31 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Did you contact Fujinon?

The address is in NJ, not far to drive.




I would be very surprised if they EVER get back to you

edj




I agree; Fujinon is not a customer friendly outfit in my experience. I never received a reply when I contacted them either. Fortunately, Baker Marine provides good service on their products.

I'm sure Baker Marine will do a fine job....

Rich


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BillC
on a new path
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Reged: 06/04/04

Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: Rich V.]
      #5547650 - 11/30/12 06:36 PM

I'm not a fan of their customer service, either. However, you should know Fujinon USA consists of 3 people. A repair sent to NJ will go to Baker if it is a top-end Fuji, Kama Tech, if it is less, and just be replaced if it is a cheapy.

BillC


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The Ardent
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/24/08

Loc: Virginia
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: BillC]
      #5547925 - 11/30/12 09:37 PM

Well thats good to know.

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Gordon Rayner
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/24/07

Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: BillC]
      #5548122 - 12/01/12 12:33 AM

They had an in-house repairman years ago.

Edited by Erix (12/01/12 11:57 AM)


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BillC
on a new path
*****

Reged: 06/04/04

Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5548128 - 12/01/12 12:41 AM

Ah, but you would have loved Charley.

In those days it was Charley Nemoto, Scott and Michelle. By the way, MOST of the work was still going to Baker Marine.

BillC


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Gordon Rayner
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/24/07

Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? *DELETED* new [Re: BillC]
      #5548225 - 12/01/12 02:45 AM

Post deleted by Erix

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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5548396 - 12/01/12 08:10 AM

I sent the broken Fujinons to Baker Marine yesterday afternoon. They'll reach there on Monday or Tuesday. I'm optimistic for a quick, reasonably priced and excellent repair. Shipping via USPS Priority mail was $20.

I didn't get a chance to try turning the ocular while looking at the chip, as I had already packed it up when I saw your suggestion. So I'll find out from Baker Marine exactly what the damage was, and I'll post here the details as soon as I know. I hope to be gazing through them again within 2 weeks. Wish me (and my wallet) luck! Thanks everyone!
-Lawson


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Man in a Tub
Postmaster
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Reged: 10/28/08

Loc: Fogpatch, CA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5548434 - 12/01/12 09:02 AM

Good Luck! Please know that I've followed this thread with interest and sympathy. I got my Fujinon 10x50 FMT-SX from Eagle Optics in mid-September.



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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: Man in a Tub]
      #5553900 - 12/04/12 12:39 PM

I just received the estimate from Baker Marine;
$143 including $13 shipping. Along with the $20 I spent to ship to them, my total cost is $163, plus a trip to the post office. I consider that a great value! Very friendly, and fast as heck service, too. They say they'll ship it out today. I expect I'll have it back by Friday. Total down time; 8 days. Not bad. Next time I'll try not to drop them, though.

The damage: 2 broken prisms on the right side, at $25 each, plus an $80 flat repair fee, plus $13 return shipping, totaling $143, plus, of course, the $20 I spent mailing it to them.
I highly recommend Baker Marine to everyone, at least based on service, quick turnaround, and price. They also said they will collimate and clean, so I expect the optics will be good as new, too.
I'll report back after I test them out...
Thanks Brian and Anthony at Baker Marine!


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Man in a Tub
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Reged: 10/28/08

Loc: Fogpatch, CA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5553960 - 12/04/12 01:09 PM

That is good news. Very reasonable.

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Rich V.
Post Laureate
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Reged: 01/02/05

Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5553970 - 12/04/12 01:17 PM

Yes, that is good news!

Rich


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ronharper
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/14/06

Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: Rich V.]
      #5554090 - 12/04/12 02:26 PM

Lawson,
I'm sorry for your bad luck, but appreciate you sharing the story with us. It's one of the few cases I know of where an FMT/MT was damaged, although I think it happens a lot on boats.

For $25, I might buy a Fujinon prism for a paperweight!
Ron


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Gordon Rayner
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Reged: 03/24/07

Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: ronharper]
      #5554470 - 12/04/12 07:12 PM

Would you accept chipped ones? Adherent glue remnants? Their mass as paperweights would be essentially unaffected. How many?

As once discussed, by selective trial assembly with oil or transparent grease, two, or three (with one of the three semisilvered/semi-aluminized for approximately 50/50 R/T), can be glued to make a crude comparator for at least up-down parallelism, and with luck and/or mental compensation, horizontally also within a chosen range of IPD ( to match the observer's IPD). When satisfied, one shines the UV light to fixate the already semi-cured, but yet adjustable, glued assembly. Cosmetic chips can be flat black painted.


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RichD
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/07

Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5555618 - 12/05/12 12:47 PM

Wow, what a great price and service. They must have plenty of old, used prism hanging around the work shop to be able to offer them at that price. Glad that Fuji will be back in action soon.

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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: RichD]
      #5565305 - 12/11/12 01:44 AM

OK, it's late Monday night (tuesday 130 am now) and the binos are back! UPS delivered today. It's been overcast for days, but as soon as I opened the box at 10:30pm, the skies became crystal clear for about 45 minutes. Thinking that this must be a sign, I put the binos on a tripod and aimed at Jupiter, a clean disc, with 4 crisp moons; then Pleiades, Hyades, M42. Then the overcast returned. Perfect timing.
I can happily say that the Fujinons seem to be as good as new, maybe better. Pinpoint stars, easily merged images.
Baker Marine also collimated and cleaned all the optics thoroughly. I am as pleased as can be. So, I heartily recommend Baker Marine Instruments and Repair (San Diego) for any Binocular service. Thanks Brian and Anthony!


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bhuloka
super member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5565318 - 12/11/12 01:55 AM

Gordon Rayner wrote:

"I have several 7 x50 MT/MTR/FMT/FMTR , which were dropped on boats, with chipped prisms , which have languished, without surgery, and some spares. I wonder if the prism is the same as in the 10 x 50?"

Well, Gordon, the invoice which I received from Baker Marine listed the 2 prisms used in the repair as "Fujinon 7x50 prisms". So it seems that they are indeed the same prisms. In any case, now you can have your broken 7x50's repaired quite cheaply at Baker Marine. Tell 'em I sent ya!

-Lawson


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RichD
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/07

Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5565399 - 12/11/12 04:33 AM

I shudder to think how much that repair would cost here in Rip off UK, much much more would be my guess. Very pleased to hear you got it sorted, it's nice to own a bino of that quality - makes it economic to repair!

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BillC
on a new path
*****

Reged: 06/04/04

Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: RichD]
      #5565841 - 12/11/12 12:19 PM

It's the economy. At Captain's I charged $120 an hour with a one hour minimum, and couldn't keep up with the work . . . especially after Cory bailed. I even had to chip a nail or two! Although part of that was to separate rational customers from talkers who were so gracious they would approve the repair to $25 before wanting to walk off.

BillC


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planetmalc
sage


Reged: 10/21/09

Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: RichD]
      #5565875 - 12/11/12 12:37 PM

Quote:

I shudder to think how much that repair would cost here in Rip off UK, much much more would be my guess. Very pleased to hear you got it sorted, it's nice to own a bino of that quality - makes it economic to repair!



Here in Rip-off UK, you'd be told, "The repair would cost more than they're worth, Sir, but we'll be glad to take them off your hands for an insulting pittance and replace them with substandard dross that'll fall apart within a fortnight."

Edited by planetmalc (12/11/12 12:38 PM)


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BillC
on a new path
*****

Reged: 06/04/04

Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: planetmalc]
      #5565917 - 12/11/12 01:13 PM

"Here in Rip-off UK, you'd be told, 'The repair would cost more than they're worth, Sir, but we'll be glad to take them off your hands for an insulting pittance and replace them with substandard dross that'll fall apart within a fortnight.' "

That is probably true, but people need to learn the value of a qualified tech repairing such instruments. Hearing it will cost more than they are worth could be because the new direction in optics is to base quality on how cheap it was.

Folks will spend $100 on a bino, brag about it as if $100 will buy the best, let it get hit by a train and then expect it to be restored--much better than new, of course-- for the price of eating out.

As they say: "Reality Bites."

By contrast, our friend bhuloka has purchased a binocular that will be worth fixing every time he needs it done. Many are the users of that bino--and similar--who will go to their graves without ever needing a repair or a season ticket to a collimation thread.

Cheers,

Bill


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Gordon Rayner
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/24/07

Re: broke my new Fujinons; where to repair? new [Re: bhuloka]
      #5566523 - 12/11/12 08:09 PM

I can process those myself, if/when I get motivated. They have not been a priority. Would mentioning you as a reference pave my way?
Or, should I go there in disguise, or via a second party, if I decide to not fix them myself? I have not seen BO for at least 25 years,and then only very briefly, and never AO.

I have seen the initials "B.O."," A.O.", maybe "R.L.O." or "S.D", and definitely "D.B", scratched on the inside of prism housing coverplates on Fuji 25 x 150 Models I and II, Nikon 20 x 120 I and II, Nikko 15 x 120 , Fuji 15 x 80 and probably others, which later came my way .

They stamped "B.M.I" on one of my slotted shaft housings for headrest assemblies for the Fuji 25 x 150. I recovered it from a damaged specimen, and still have it. The letters are quite deep, and penetrated the hard anodizing ( low temp., high current). Their copies of it were welded. Mine were/are 2-piece, screwed. My headrests were made in a mold which I made to copy the headrest of the WW II Carl Zeiss Jena 25 x 100 with 60 deg inclination of the sight line. They are more comfortable than the well-known cushions of the 10 x 80, 45 deg. inclined Flaks of Busch design or the copy/nearcopy made for the US Navy 20 x 120. A cushion is most useful for an inclined view binocular. Use on a straight view can lead to neck fatigue, unless the forward pressing neck muscles become strengthened.

RLO and probably Ken Baker ( a high school acquaintance of my father, RIP) are RIP. OM Chief Petty Officer SD served in WW II. He was one of a partnership triumvirate until perhaps 1990(?). Actuarial considerations imply that he is retired. That shop gets grandfathered-in giveaway rent from the Port District, being one of the first, if not the first, tenants on Shelter Island. They have survived several rumblings which proposed their replacement by something more tourist oriented or scenic. But they were saved by well- connected/well heeled yacht owners too lazy to swing their own compasses. Compass correction cards are easy to make using GPS. See a recent version of Chapman, at any boating store. Sextants, and, to a large degree, compasses have been obsoleted by GPS.

"D.B." , who now runs Mountain Optics,in Montana, and reputedly gets Coast Guard work on the 15 x 80, used too much RTV silicone rubber. Cleanup of his RTV significantly slowed rework by me when a specimen might come my way after two or three , or more, years. I prefer Presstite non-curing polysulfide, extruded into spaghetti or linguine via custom tips on an extrusion press. 3M had a similar product used on previous generations of US military armored vehicle sights. D.B. left for reasons unknown. Divorce(?) meant exclusion from the "family"? To make room for A.O. ? I have not seen D.B since a Las Vegas Shot Show 15-20 years ago. He was in Mike Rivkin's "Deutsche Optik" booth.

I have considered completely stripping the rubber from the several -R 7 x 50, thus lightening them for astro use. Insulating gloves, with sport ball gripping fingers, provide more than adequate grip, while warming the digits.


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