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MrMxyzptlk
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Reged: 08/19/12

Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less new [Re: BKBrown]
      #6267202 - 12/22/13 04:24 PM

Solid kit except for the fact that a 6" F/5 Newtonian is not that suited for planetary work. But I love planetary work, and I will use this setup until I will get a new one I won't be discouraged just because there are better scope for this

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evan9162
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Reged: 09/20/13

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Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less new [Re: BKBrown]
      #6270515 - 12/24/13 12:01 PM

Quote:

Cool image Evan, looks like you pulled one out despite less-than-good seeing conditions What is your focusing arrangement? Do you have really fine focus control?

Clear Skies, Brian





I use 10x live view on my camera, and use a star to nail down focusing, then slew back over to Jupiter to do imaging. I'm only using the OTA's stock focusing knob.

I made a Bahtinov mask out of some card stock a couple of nights ago - I'll be giving that a shot next time out to help focus more quickly. I'll still probably use a star for focusing first.


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evan9162
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Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less new [Re: evan9162]
      #6272947 - 12/26/13 12:10 AM Attachment (64 downloads)

Christmas morning Jupiter

I used my home-made Bahtinov mask to fine-tune focusing - I used Castor or Pollux (can't remember which one) to focus, then swung back over to Jupiter to image.

Seeing was maybe a bit better than average - at least better than my image from a few nights ago.

Orion 127 Mak, Celestron Omni 2x barlow, Canon 650D w/ Magic Lantern movie crop mode, 1300 frames


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BKBrown
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Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less new [Re: evan9162]
      #6278458 - 12/29/13 03:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Cool image Evan, looks like you pulled one out despite less-than-good seeing conditions What is your focusing arrangement? Do you have really fine focus control?

Clear Skies, Brian





I use 10x live view on my camera, and use a star to nail down focusing, then slew back over to Jupiter to do imaging. I'm only using the OTA's stock focusing knob.

I made a Bahtinov mask out of some card stock a couple of nights ago - I'll be giving that a shot next time out to help focus more quickly. I'll still probably use a star for focusing first.




Thanks Evan. Any particular reason you don't focus on the planet? I believe that most of us focus on the planetary target we are imaging, and I don't know of anyone else using a Bahtinov mask for this work. Using the mask to focus on a star and then moving to Jupiter is a much tougher way to do business, my hat is off to you for the effort...

Clear Skies,
Brian


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BKBrown
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Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less new [Re: evan9162]
      #6278463 - 12/29/13 03:12 AM

Good work Evan, but you may want to back off on the sharpening routine - you are losing some data by over-processing, try to keep it natural looking Your kit is really playing nice together, so don't try to push too hard during processing...

Clear Skies,
Brian


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Kokatha man
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Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less new [Re: BKBrown]
      #6278481 - 12/29/13 03:43 AM

Some sage suggestions from Brian there Evan, but a meritous effort nonetheless...

On another note Brian, every time I look at this excellent thread I open it and see you saying: "Hi folks,
Jupiter reaches opposition this weekend and it won't get any better than this."
and I go "what..........!"

Then the penny drops!


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evan9162
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Reged: 09/20/13

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Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less new [Re: BKBrown]
      #6278484 - 12/29/13 03:46 AM

Yeah, I noticed it looked a bit less "natural" than other people's images. I've kept my original, unsharpened TIFFs so I can always go back later and get the wavelets just right. I've only done a few planetary images so far.

Focusing using the Bahtinov mask works really well. I spend less time slewing over to the star, getting the focus right, and slewing back, than I do fiddling with focus back and forth directly on Jupiter trying to get it "just right". I'm sure in better seeing conditions, focusing directly on the planet would be easier.

I like using the mask so much, that I use it for visual. When I'm viewing stars, it takes no time to plop it on the front of the scope, tweak focus, then take it off - again, far less time than tweaking focus back and forth making sure it's "just right".


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Kokatha man
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Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less new [Re: evan9162]
      #6278490 - 12/29/13 03:57 AM

If it works for you then it's fine Evan, but I have to reinforce Brian's comments there and state that I would never contemplate using such devices to focus on Jupiter.....imho focusing is next in line after seeing & collimation (they are the first indispensables! )

I simply don't believe that you can achieve anywhere near the fine focus achievable on subtle disk details with anything but your eyes on the onscreen image!


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evan9162
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Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #6278768 - 12/29/13 09:47 AM Attachment (43 downloads)

Here I've toned down the sharpening a bit. All of the features still appear to be there, with more subtle gradients.

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BKBrown
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Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less new [Re: evan9162]
      #6279101 - 12/29/13 12:37 PM

Now that's the ticket Evan! That is a much more natural looking presentation. There are many different ways to get to a finished image and it pays to try new things.
There is a temptation to push data too hard, particularly if it is somewhat marginal, but doing so typically leads to an artificial (and less-than-ideal) result. Your second image is much more restrained and, to my eye, much more aesthetically pleasing.
One the most important things to remember for good small bore images is that we cannot create more detail than the resolution of the instrument can provide. Trying to force the detail through post-processing and enlarged image scale will only result in a degraded and/or over-sized image. We have to understand and work effectively with the limitations of our kit...and have fun

Clear Skies,
Brian

Edited by BKBrown (12/29/13 12:39 PM)


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BKBrown
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Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #6279282 - 12/29/13 02:25 PM

Quote:

Some sage suggestions from Brian there Evan, but a meritous effort nonetheless...

On another note Brian, every time I look at this excellent thread I open it and see you saying: "Hi folks,
Jupiter reaches opposition this weekend and it won't get any better than this."
and I go "what..........!"

Then the penny drops!




But next weekend it will be correct (again)...

Clear Skies,
Brian


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evan9162
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Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less new [Re: BKBrown]
      #6279436 - 12/29/13 03:46 PM

Quote:

Now that's the ticket Evan! That is a much more natural looking presentation. There are many different ways to get to a finished image and it pays to try new things.
There is a temptation to push data too hard, particularly if it is somewhat marginal, but doing so typically leads to an artificial (and less-than-ideal) result. Your second image is much more restrained and, to my eye, much more aesthetically pleasing.
One the most important things to remember for good small bore images is that we cannot create more detail than the resolution of the instrument can provide. Trying to force the detail through post-processing and enlarged image scale will only result in a degraded and/or over-sized image. We have to understand and work effectively with the limitations of our kit...and have fun

Clear Skies,
Brian




Yep - I've done some wide field deep sky imaging (long exposure), and there's a similar theme with stretching and setting levels. You *can* make more faint wispy stuff pop out, but at the expense of noise and blotchiness. The same applies to planetary imaging and sharpening. The data will only support you doing so much before it breaks down visually.

I'm pretty sure my limiting factor (besides the aperture of my scope) is seeing. My videos of Jupiter are still pretty wobbly due to atmospheric turbulence. Gotta get a good night of seeing.


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proky
member


Reged: 05/06/12

Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less new [Re: BKBrown]
      #6284882 - 01/01/14 05:38 AM

Jupiter 30.12.2013.

a short animation

Jupiter_animation

Nexstar 6SE, 3xBarlow, ZWO ASI120MC.


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Mert
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Reged: 08/31/05

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Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less new [Re: proky]
      #6284886 - 01/01/14 05:45 AM

Beautifull result, lot of detail in there!
Seeing must have been very good!


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BKBrown
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Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less new [Re: proky]
      #6286246 - 01/01/14 07:07 PM

Another nice one proky I especially like the animation, I still have not found an animation application that works consistently well for me - what are you using?

Clear Skies,
Brian


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proky
member


Reged: 05/06/12

Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less [Re: BKBrown]
      #6287777 - 01/02/14 02:42 PM

Hi Brian, I use Picture2avi for animation. It is very simple software.

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BKBrown
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Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less [Re: proky]
      #6288510 - 01/02/14 09:13 PM

Thanks proky, I think I will give it a try

Clear Skies,
Brian


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Ferrodzam
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Reged: 12/22/09

Loc: Weston,FL
Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less [Re: BKBrown]
      #6310873 - 01/13/14 06:53 PM Attachment (34 downloads)

OK here is my contribution to this thread Brian!! C6 on an AVX mount using a ASI120MM camera. LRGB image with 10.000 frames for LUM and 5000 on each color channel. Seeing wasnt that bad but I was catching Jupiter just above my hot rooftop so it was a really wobbly sight!!

Edited by Ferrodzam (01/13/14 06:56 PM)


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BKBrown
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Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less [Re: Ferrodzam]
      #6311214 - 01/13/14 09:50 PM

Great image Fernando, the Oval BA and white ovals show up very well It's nice to see you on this thread...small-bore shooting is fun!

Clear Skies,
Brian

Edited by BKBrown (01/13/14 09:52 PM)


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james7ca
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Reged: 05/21/11

Re: Small bore challenge: Jupiter w/ 6" or less [Re: BKBrown]
      #6315869 - 01/16/14 05:19 AM Attachment (37 downloads)

Jupiter and Europa taken with a Tele Vue NP127is and 5X Powermate with an Imaging Source DBK21AU04.AS camera. Captured on January 15, 2014 at about 10:42PM PST. Three minutes of captures with the best 10% stacked and wavelet sharpened in Registax v6 followed by tweaks in Photoshop CS5 and Apple's Preview application.

Seeing conditions were variable (aren't they always) with moments of good seeing interspaced with absolutely atrocious (not helped by jet aircraft passing very near to Jupiter every few minutes as they followed their landing path to a nearby airport).

I hope to try again this Friday when the Great Red Spot transits at 11:16PM PST which is only 18 minutes past the time that Jupiter reaches its local zenith.


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