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Equipment Discussions >> Binoviewers

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bcuddihee
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/04/06

Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
ES 24MM 68 DEGREE SWA and narrow IPD..will it work
      #5550638 - 12/02/12 04:27 PM

I'm a guy with a narrow IPD as well as deep set sockets and thought I might like to check out the ES 24 68 degree eps, as an alternative to 24 pans for binoviewing. I use a c8 with denk power switch. Will two of these be too heavy for the back end of my scope and more importantly..is the er enough so that I can back off of them so I can see the whole field of view. It's either these or a pair of 16 brandons..as I already have the 24 brandons. What do you folks think?
bc


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denis0007dl
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Loc: Croatia
Re: ES 24MM 68 DEGREE SWA and narrow IPD..will it work new [Re: bcuddihee]
      #5550648 - 12/02/12 04:38 PM

All I can said is that I enjoy my ES 24mm 68" in MkV bino, and I enjoy wide fid of view, instead Plossl or Ortho tunnel vision! Pans 24 are also great for this job!

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Space Dragon
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Reged: 02/19/12

Loc: Scotland UK
Re: ES 24MM 68 DEGREE SWA and narrow IPD..will it work new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5551471 - 12/03/12 03:30 AM

I have been thinking the same thing. My IPD is narrow at around 61mm and coupled with deep sockets and a big conk, it's not ideal.
I've had trouble with a certain 100mm BT in the past.
Eddgie was considering the ES 68º but went for the Hyperions, he said they were very tight on face-fit until he found he could remove some of the rubber at the eyepiece, which helped.
You can always fit a counterweight if the load is back-heavy.
The only way of really knowing is to try them out.
If you can find any in stock that is.....


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Eddgie
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: ES 24MM 68 DEGREE SWA and narrow IPD..will it work new [Re: Space Dragon]
      #5551713 - 12/03/12 09:22 AM

To expand.. The Hyperion has an eye-guard diameter (folded down) that is very similar to that of the ES 2468. I asked someone that owns both to measure them and he sent a picture showing them turned eye-guard to eye-guard, and they appeared to be within a millimeter of one another.

My own problem with the Hyperion was not at the eyeguard, but rather at the very wide shoulder below it. My nose where it flared would come into contact with this shoulder.

Removing the silicone rubber guard at the shoulder (Hyperions have threads there) provided just enough clearance.

The barrels themselves I don't think are much of an issue unless the IPD is very small. I still have several millimeters clearance at the barrels when the IPD is set for me.

The rather large guard area though could be an issue for someone with a wide nose bridge. My nose I think is perhaps a bit thinner than most at the bridge (I have to really bend the supports on my glasses to extreme) and the Hyperions are very close to touching my nose at this point... Just a couple of millimeters to spare.

But I think they would work for me now. The Hyperions are still a bit tight, but I think the ES 2468s would be just about the same because of the same.

It is clear that Televue considers ergonimics. Sometimes their eyepeices are weirdly shaped, but when you use them, you get it. Nothing touches on their modern eyepeices, and everone love the 24mm.

That is often the difference between things designed by designers and things designed by people that are also astronomers.

But I think the ES 2468s would work OK and may get some one day. I like the 13mm and 17mm Hyperions, but the 24 seems to be not quite as good in the C14. Perhaps a bit less well corrected at the outside.

The ES 68s were similar to the Panoptics in edge performance, which is to say excellent in the C14.


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RAKing
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Re: ES 24MM 68 DEGREE SWA and narrow IPD..will it work new [Re: bcuddihee]
      #5551810 - 12/03/12 10:51 AM

I have always considered the 24 Pans to be the Gold Standard for binos. Their performance and ergonomics are great for me and my narrow IPD.

The specs on the ES 24 are encouraging with their comfy 18mm eye relief, compared to the 11mm of the Pans. They are 3 ounces heavier than the Pan, so that would add 6 ounces extra to the back of your SE. I don't think that is too bad and you could probably slide the OTA forward a bit to take care of that. (That is why I invented my infamous "Ron's Rail" a few years ago for my C8SE )

The "either/or" with a pair of Brandon 16mm is confusing. I use both the 24 Pans and the 16mm Brandons in my binos. The views are very different, so I don't know what to suggest. I use the 24 Pans to get the widest possible view and the 16mm Brandons are one of my intermediate steps for double and variable star observations. Both pairs are outstanding, IMHO.

Cheers,

Ron


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Mike B
Starstruck
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Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
Re: ES 24MM 68 DEGREE SWA and narrow IPD..will it work new [Re: bcuddihee]
      #5551905 - 12/03/12 11:53 AM

Hey BC-

When i used a pair of 24mm Pans in my Denk+SCT (10-inch w/ full 2" visual-back), they vignetted somewhat in 'reducer' mode. I've heard this from others... still, some say they see none. Seems to be a YMMV thing?

Quote:

...and everone love the 24mm.



After a couple of years, i finally faced the fact that i didn't, for reasons of the Denk vignetting, plus their abysmal ER for this eyeglass wearer, and moved on to an older pair of Meade 24.5mm SWA's... and finally to the 22mm LVWs i currently use. Both of these i really enjoyed! And in my eyes, the LVWs are top of the heap for a Denk BVer system. (while i haven't used them, the 20mm XWs & 21mm Denks would likely share that rank... unfortunately, ALL being costlier than the ES/Hyp alternatives)

Aside from the IPD issues, be aware that the 24mm 68's may vignette in your system to some degree.

Happy hunting!


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DaveJ
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Reged: 01/07/05

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Re: ES 24MM 68 DEGREE SWA and narrow IPD..will it work new [Re: Mike B]
      #5551919 - 12/03/12 12:03 PM

Quote:

Aside from the IPD issues, be aware that the 24mm 68's may vignette in your system to some degree.




I have the 24 Pans and love them. There is absolutely no vignetting with them in the Mark Vs, but there IS some, as you mention, in the Denk IIs.


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bcuddihee
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/04/06

Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
Re: ES 24MM 68 DEGREE SWA and narrow IPD..will it work new [Re: DaveJ]
      #5552018 - 12/03/12 01:00 PM

Thanks for the input..the reason I am considering the 24's is that I really like open clusters, including the double cluster. I usually use my 19 widefields on reducer mode for objects like the double cluster but am concerned with the reducer mode "reducing" my effective aperture. I did a light test with my c8 and found that in straight through mode with 2" diagonal and binos, no reducer, my system was operating at around 7-3/8" of aperture. In reducer mode it was operating at a puny 6"+- or so of aperture. Big difference here as I was comparing views in a friends unrestricted 6" apo and my 8" c8 in reducer mode. On the same object with similar FOV's his view seemed significantly brighter. That being said I'd like to use whatever aperture I do have to its maximum, thus sending me on the quest for a 24mm 68degree ep that will show most of the double cluster and equivalent objects without vignetting or reducing effective aperture. Question for those binoing with 24 pans...or es24's..can you fit the double cluster in the FOV without a reducer?
The 16 brandon reference I made was only that if the es24's were not going to work for me, I may just save for the Brandons. I was not infering that one was going to be used as an alternate for the other. Thanks! bc


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Mike B
Starstruck
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Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
Re: ES 24MM 68 DEGREE SWA and narrow IPD..will it work new [Re: DaveJ]
      #5552027 - 12/03/12 01:06 PM

Not exactly sure where the vignetting is coming from in the Denk system.... could be the Mk V prism size is just enough larger to allow full illumination; could be the Denk OCA is clipping at the very front; could be the Denk "reducer" lens is clipping?

One thing i *did* notice: when i switched from BVing the SCT to the Dob, the 24-Pan vignetting issue diminished greatly. Still there, but almost beneath notice.

So it *could* be a unique-to-Denk issue with 24mm 68* EPs. In any event, is good for Denk owners to be cognizant of the possibility. Again, some see it... some don't. YMMV.


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RAKing
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Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: ES 24MM 68 DEGREE SWA and narrow IPD..will it work new [Re: bcuddihee]
      #5552045 - 12/03/12 01:23 PM

Thanks for the explanation about the 16mm Brandons.

I use my Mark V binos with a 1.7x GPC in a TEC 140. Thus my 24 Pans work at an effective focal length of 14.1mm, 69x, and give me just under 1 degree FOV (0.98).

I haven't had a chance to look at the Perseus Double in a while, so I'll see if I can spin the scope around to check it out next time out. IIRC, it might be too big for my configuration.

Cheers,

Ron


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DaveJ
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/07/05

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: ES 24MM 68 DEGREE SWA and narrow IPD..will it work new [Re: RAKing]
      #5552087 - 12/03/12 01:49 PM

Quote:

I use my Mark V binos with a 1.7x GPC in a TEC 140. Thus my 24 Pans work at an effective focal length of 14.1mm, 69x, and give me just under 1 degree FOV (0.98).




While the Double Cluster (N884/N869) can be seen in a 1 degree FOV, I prefer to use the 1.25 GPC in my TEC 140 with MkV and Pan 24s for a TFOV of 1.33 degrees which easily frames both clusters with a little extra room. I've also used no GPC at all for a TFOV of 1.67 degrees and that is actually preferable since the star field in that neck of the woods is jam packed with stars.


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RAKing
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Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: ES 24MM 68 DEGREE SWA and narrow IPD..will it work new [Re: DaveJ]
      #5552177 - 12/03/12 02:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I use my Mark V binos with a 1.7x GPC in a TEC 140. Thus my 24 Pans work at an effective focal length of 14.1mm, 69x, and give me just under 1 degree FOV (0.98).




While the Double Cluster (N884/N869) can be seen in a 1 degree FOV, I prefer to use the 1.25 GPC in my TEC 140 with MkV and Pan 24s for a TFOV of 1.33 degrees which easily frames both clusters with a little extra room. I've also used no GPC at all for a TFOV of 1.67 degrees and that is actually preferable since the star field in that neck of the woods is jam packed with stars.




That's how I prefer to observe, too. The 1.7x GPC works better for my variable star estimates and that is why it's my usual setup.

Cheers,

Ron


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