Cames
sage
Reged: 08/04/08
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Filters for Jupiter
#5555328 - 12/05/12 09:14 AM
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I noticed two new(?) Zhumell filters in the Hayneedle catalog.
They are the Zhumell 1.25 inch High Performance Urban Sky Filter and the Zhumell 1.25 Inch High Performance Filter
Have you had experience with either of these?
I'm looking for a filter of good optical quality that will enhance views of Jupiter which appears very bright in this apparition and I suspect that its glare may be obscuring some details.
I haven't been able to find specifics on these filters so your input and impressions after actually using one would be appreciated.
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Cames
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Sarkikos
Postmaster
Reged: 12/18/07
Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: Cames]
#5555428 - 12/05/12 10:29 AM
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Cames,
I advise a Baader Moon & Sky Glow to increase perceived contrast.
Also, if Jupiter seems too bright, blame your eyes, don't blame the planet. When viewing bright planets, your eyes should be as close as possible to photopic (daylight) adaptation, the level at which they would have optimal visual acuity. Try looking at the reflection on a white piece of paper from a bright white flashlight every so often during the observing session. This will bring your eyes closer to photopic. If a planet appears too bright in the eyepiece, your eyes are stuck at the partially dark-adapted mesopic level.
Mike
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BSJ
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/22/08
Loc: Grand Isle, VT
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: Sarkikos]
#5555465 - 12/05/12 10:52 AM
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I find a Moon & Sky Glow stacked with a Finge Killer is the best for Jupiter, or any bright Solar System object.
I just got a Semi-Apo filter, but it's been too cloudy...
The Semi-Apo combines the M&SG and the FK into the same filter.
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Sarkikos
Postmaster
Reged: 12/18/07
Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: BSJ]
#5555475 - 12/05/12 10:58 AM
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I've also tried the M&SG stacked with FK, and the Semi-Apo by itself. But usually I just put on the M&SG.
Mike
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mich_al
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/10/09
Loc: Rural central lower Michigan ...
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: Sarkikos]
#5555487 - 12/05/12 11:06 AM
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I'm getting very good results using an 80A light blue filter.
Al
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demiles
sage
Reged: 11/07/06
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: mich_al]
#5555575 - 12/05/12 12:21 PM
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I use the M&SG filter as well but just recently started using a 25% ND filter with excellent results.
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jaddbd
sage
Reged: 05/18/05
Loc: Woodbine, MD
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: mich_al]
#5555596 - 12/05/12 12:33 PM
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+1 on the 80A. It's a subtle, and does seem to enhance the contrast a bit.
JD
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SPO
super member
Reged: 12/03/10
Loc: PA, USA
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: jaddbd]
#5555641 - 12/05/12 12:57 PM
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The urban sky filter looks to be the same one I have from zhumell. I think they changed the name a few times.
It's similar to the Baader M&SG. I've had both and couldn't tell a difference in use and returned the Baader M&SG. Your results in your scope may differ. I think the Baader uses a different type of glass and when looking at it under light you can see a difference. I just couldn't see any improvement when using it over the zhumell.
The other filter looks like it might be a neutral density filter.
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Scanning4Comets
Markus
Reged: 12/26/04
Loc: Deep Space!
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: SPO]
#5555697 - 12/05/12 01:37 PM
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I used to use the 80A and yellow / green with good results, but for all my planetary viewing, except for Saturn, I use a polarizing filter with excellent results. I just put one half in my 2" extension tube and the other half on the bottom of my Antares twist lock adapter and I turn the eyepiece to set the brightness. 
Cheers,
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Sarkikos
Postmaster
Reged: 12/18/07
Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: Scanning4Comets]
#5555726 - 12/05/12 01:54 PM
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I only use filters to enhance contrast or emphasize specific features over others. To tone down the brightness, nothing works better than the "bright white light trick."  The eyes are the problem, not the planet.
Mike
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JIMZ7
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/22/05
Loc: S.E.Michigan near DTW
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: Sarkikos]
#5555738 - 12/05/12 02:06 PM
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Once with a Celestron 8" Star-Hopper, I looked at Jupiter with polarized sun glasses. At that time it was the only thing I had for glare-it worked!
Jim 
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moynihan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/22/03
Loc: Lake Michigan Watershed
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: Cames]
#5555741 - 12/05/12 02:10 PM
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A useful ALPO page on the subject.
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REC
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/20/10
Loc: NC
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: Sarkikos]
#5555744 - 12/05/12 02:10 PM
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That's an interesting tip. I notice when I first go out my patio door from a lighted room to view Jupiter, at first it looks pretty good with dark sky around the moons and detail on the planet. After a little bit longer at the EP, the glow around Jupiter starts to increase and I loose surface detail. So I guess my photopic vision is then turning into night vision, that's why the glare then?
I will have to try the white paper trick:)
Bob
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Jaimo!
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/11/07
Loc: Exit 135 / 40° North
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: mich_al]
#5555765 - 12/05/12 02:20 PM
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Mike,
If you look into a flash light to stop down your pupil diameter, couldn't you accomplish the same thing with a smaller scope? I find my 12" dob a little much for Jupiter, but great for deep sky, and typically get my best views at 6-8"...
Jaimo!
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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
Reged: 06/24/03
Loc: Los Angeles
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: Jaimo!]
#5555842 - 12/05/12 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Mike,
If you look into a flash light to stop down your pupil diameter, couldn't you accomplish the same thing with a smaller scope? I find my 12" dob a little much for Jupiter, but great for deep sky, and typically get my best views at 6-8"...
Jaimo!
But the smaller scope will lose resolution.
If dimming the image in a larger scope enables you to see more details (and sometimes it does), try a light #50 neutral density filter or a #82A light Blue. The ND won't change the color.
However, I've found coloration in bands and details to be greater in greater aperture. My best view of Jupiter in color was in a 28" scope with no filter.
And remember, double the power and the image is 1/4 as bright per unit area. My best views of Jupiter have all been over 300X.
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Sarkikos
Postmaster
Reged: 12/18/07
Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: Jaimo!]
#5555857 - 12/05/12 03:26 PM
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Jaimo!
Quote:
Mike,
If you look into a flash light to stop down your pupil diameter, couldn't you accomplish the same thing with a smaller scope? I find my 12" dob a little much for Jupiter, but great for deep sky, and typically get my best views at 6-8"...
No, don't look directly into the light. That will give you an after-image. Not too good. You need to shine the bright white-light from the flashlight onto a piece of white paper, and look at the white paper. That should be enough to bring your eyes up toward the photopic level of adaptation.
And there is more to this effect than stopping down the iris of your eye. I'm sure that is part of it, but there are also changes going on in the retina.
I would not advise going to a smaller aperture scope just so Jupiter won't seem so bright! It's not about the scope or the brightness of Jupiter. What is important here is adjusting your eyes to the optimum adaptation for viewing planets.
I think a 12" Dob would be great for Jupiter. In fact I know it would be, since I've viewed planets in 12" and larger Dobs. The real problem with larger mirrors is thermal adjustment, not that the aperture is too big. My best scope for planets is a 10" Dob, better than my 8" Dob or my 6" Rumak. I have no problem with Jupiter being "too bright." It's all a matter of doing it right and making sure your eyes are prepared for planet observation, not for deep sky.
Mike
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Dick Jacobson
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/22/06
Loc: Plymouth, Minnesota, USA
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: Sarkikos]
#5555931 - 12/05/12 04:20 PM
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A binoviewer is very helpful, if you're lucky enough to have one. Not only cuts glare, but makes it easier to see faint contrast and suppresses "floaters".
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Sarkikos
Postmaster
Reged: 12/18/07
Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: Dick Jacobson]
#5555942 - 12/05/12 04:25 PM
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Yes, a binoviewer is excellent for Jupiter.
Mike
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and75
journeyman
Reged: 08/31/10
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: mich_al]
#5555945 - 12/05/12 04:27 PM
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I came in just right now, it was a 1 hour observing window, and after that Jupiter disappeared behind the clouds. I tested my new Soligor HP eyepieces (almost the same as the Vixen LV series I think) with a Baader M&SG and a light blue filter (Made in Germany, but not for astronomical use, I think it was an accessory of a camera)
The main impression on the M&SG is that it's good, noticed some improvement... but not a big deal. The blue color filter did just the same performance (for free) I can't screw the blue filter into the eyepiece, perhaps I will invest into a real astro-filter, a Baader light blue.
I have never heard about that white paper trick, it sounds good, I'll try it asap.
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Sarkikos
Postmaster
Reged: 12/18/07
Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
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Re: Filters for Jupiter
[Re: Sarkikos]
#5555948 - 12/05/12 04:28 PM
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I hate to belabor the point, but all this talk about Jupiter being too bright, too much glare, need to dim the image, are off the mark. Unless you're observing with a really big scope - maybe a 26" or bigger? - the problem isn't that Jupiter is too bright. The problem is that your eyes aren't properly prepared to observe Jupiter.
Mike
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