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Equipment Discussions >> Reflectors

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Jeff B
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/30/06

So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB?
      #5555746 - 12/05/12 02:12 PM

Exactly what the title says. Almost NOBODY is willing to ship a DOB to make a sale on the used market. "Pickup only".

I know DOB owners are a lazy bunch to begin with but man, what's up with that? I mean, they came in a box didn't they? So why is it so hard to put it back in the box?

Jeff


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Gastrol
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/04/11

Loc: los angeles
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jeff B]
      #5555752 - 12/05/12 02:16 PM

As a buyer, I would rather prefer to pick up a used dob from a local seller, if at all possible.

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Doug Culbertson
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/06/05

Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Gastrol]
      #5555779 - 12/05/12 02:30 PM

Quote:

As a buyer, I would rather prefer to pick up a used dob from a local seller, if at all possible.




+1 Both of my dobs were bought used, and both times I met the seller to pick them up. Neither seller had the boxes.

I suspect that many people dispose of the boxes thinking that this telescope is "the one", and they will never sell it. As for me, I have bought three new Starmasters in the past, and lack of storage space was the reason for disposing of the boxes.

At the same time, many buyers really balk when they hear that it could cost $200 or more for shipping a used Dobsonian telescope, so they prefer to pick up if possible.

FWIW, the previously mentioned Starmasters were all sold on a pickup or meet halfway basis.

Edited by Doug Culbertson (12/05/12 02:32 PM)


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Bob S.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/05

Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Gastrol]
      #5555781 - 12/05/12 02:31 PM

The cost of shipping and packing so that the shipping goons do not destroy your Newtonian are making it increasingly more difficult to ship anything of size. It also takes about a full 8 hours of packing with materials on hand to prepare 15" or larger scope for shipping in my experience. You have to meticulously disassemble and bubble any fragile items. It is just a big PITA. Bob

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jeff B]
      #5555794 - 12/05/12 02:47 PM

Quote:

Exactly what the title says. Almost NOBODY is willing to ship a DOB to make a sale on the used market. "Pickup only".

I know DOB owners are a lazy bunch to begin with but man, what's up with that? I mean, they came in a box didn't they? So why is it so hard to put it back in the box?

Jeff




Jeff:

Dobs are bulky and somewhat difficult to pack. On top of that, the can be expensive to ship. For a basic Dob, Orion, Zhumell etc, they ship in two boxes and I believe the mount is disassembled. So to ship it, you have to take it all apart, pack it and then ship it.

I did a quick Fedex quote. Shipping a 10 inch Dob from San Diego to Kansas City would cost about $85. Since most vendors include shipping in the cost of the scope, it means a seller really needs to knock something off.

You start with a scope that costs $500 new. It costs $85 to ship it... I want to sell my near new Dob for $375 but if I ship it to you, not only will I have to go through the hassle of shipping it but it will cost you $460... Not much of a deal.

With larger Dobs, shipping them is even more of a problem and one is risking damage. Packaging a premium Dob so it would not be damaged in shipping, that would be serious work. Several years ago, I foolishly shipped a 13.1 inch Coulter coast to coast. The scope had cost me $100 but the shipping was nearly $200.

Jon


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Chucky
sage
*****

Reged: 04/16/10

Loc: Dublin, Ohio
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5555799 - 12/05/12 02:52 PM

Personally and ideally I'd much rather sell a telescope in person. This way we can both go over the scope, I can answer any questions, and together we can make sure of things. I've done it this way several times, and it's always been a true win-win....plus I've met some very nice people.

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Joel
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 07/08/04

Loc: Merrimack, NH
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Chucky]
      #5555821 - 12/05/12 03:06 PM

My 12" Orion XT12g came in three boxes and had to be assembled. After putting it together, my living room and half the next room was full of boxes, packing material and scope. The amount of packing pieces in the boxes was huge and the boxes were quite large as well.

I took one look around and I said I would never ship this scope. It would be an enormous task to pack it in a way that it could be shipped and we astronomy people are a picky bunch when buying used equipment. One tiny ding and after all that effort most people would be screaming for their money back.

My advice is don't buy a dob unless a) you plan to keep it forever or b) plan to sell it locally for less than what you would expect to get from an out of state buyer.


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jeff B]
      #5555865 - 12/05/12 03:29 PM

Quote:

Exactly what the title says. Almost NOBODY is willing to ship a DOB to make a sale on the used market. "Pickup only".

I know DOB owners are a lazy bunch to begin with but man, what's up with that? I mean, they came in a box didn't they? So why is it so hard to put it back in the box?

Jeff



Not that I'm selling, but my scope came in 5 boxes and it took a couple hours just to unpack it. No way would I consider shipping it, and I ship packages every day.


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Tim Gilliland
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/09

Loc: Sand Springs Okla.
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Starman1]
      #5555892 - 12/05/12 03:51 PM

My 17.5 Discovery Split tube came in four box's, three of which I easily could have climbed into. Hate to think what it cost to ship a 200 lb scope like that.

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Chucky]
      #5555903 - 12/05/12 04:02 PM

Quote:

Personally and ideally I'd much rather sell a telescope in person. This way we can both go over the scope, I can answer any questions, and together we can make sure of things. I've done it this way several times, and it's always been a true win-win....plus I've met some very nice people.






Jon


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Peter Natscher
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/06

Loc: Central Coast California
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5555922 - 12/05/12 04:16 PM

I've had seven Starmaster's shipped to my door 2,000 miles from Kansas via UPS. Rick does a great job with packing and shipping and he *ships* all his scopes via UPS under 24" in size. I've also crated and shipped a 24" Starmaster clear across to US from CA to NJ and it worked great with no problems. Get a shipper to do the proper packing and trucking. If you want to sell the big scope somewhere in the US, then you've got to ship to get the Dob sold! My current 24" StarStructure shipped to me in a nice stacked and packed crate and it was flown across the US without a hitch. Get real sellers: widen your sales area and ship your scope!!

Quote:

Quote:

Exactly what the title says. Almost NOBODY is willing to ship a DOB to make a sale on the used market. "Pickup only".

I know DOB owners are a lazy bunch to begin with but man, what's up with that? I mean, they came in a box didn't they? So why is it so hard to put it back in the box?

Jeff




Jeff:

Dobs are bulky and somewhat difficult to pack. On top of that, the can be expensive to ship. For a basic Dob, Orion, Zhumell etc, they ship in two boxes and I believe the mount is disassembled. So to ship it, you have to take it all apart, pack it and then ship it.

I did a quick Fedex quote. Shipping a 10 inch Dob from San Diego to Kansas City would cost about $85. Since most vendors include shipping in the cost of the scope, it means a seller really needs to knock something off.

You start with a scope that costs $500 new. It costs $85 to ship it... I want to sell my near new Dob for $375 but if I ship it to you, not only will I have to go through the hassle of shipping it but it will cost you $460... Not much of a deal.

With larger Dobs, shipping them is even more of a problem and one is risking damage. Packaging a premium Dob so it would not be damaged in shipping, that would be serious work. Several years ago, I foolishly shipped a 13.1 inch Coulter coast to coast. The scope had cost me $100 but the shipping was nearly $200.

Jon




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Peter Natscher
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/06

Loc: Central Coast California
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Starman1]
      #5555925 - 12/05/12 04:19 PM

Isn't your time worth money? Mine is. Driving hundreds of miles to rendezvous cost you more than you think.

Quote:

Quote:

Exactly what the title says. Almost NOBODY is willing to ship a DOB to make a sale on the used market. "Pickup only".

I know DOB owners are a lazy bunch to begin with but man, what's up with that? I mean, they came in a box didn't they? So why is it so hard to put it back in the box?

Jeff



Not that I'm selling, but my scope came in 5 boxes and it took a couple hours just to unpack it. No way would I consider shipping it, and I ship packages every day.




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star drop
contra contrail
*****

Reged: 02/02/08

Loc: Snow Plop, WNY
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5555928 - 12/05/12 04:20 PM

My cat ate the box.

This 25" Tectron telescope was shipped from Florida to New York. It was partially disassembled (truss poles detached) and crated in a plywood box. The shipping cost was around $450 and that was in 1988. When I sell it will be by pickup only.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5555940 - 12/05/12 04:25 PM

Quote:


I've had seven Starmaster's shipped to my door 2,000 miles from Kansas via UPS. Rick does a great job with packing and shipping and he *ships* all his scopes via UPS under 24" in size. I've also crated and shipped a 24" Starmaster clear across to US from CA to NJ and it worked great with no problems. Get a shipper to do the proper packing and trucking.




How much did it cost for Starmaster to ship that 24 inch to you, how did it cost you to pack and ship it from CA to NJ?

Me, that's too much like work...

Jon


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Atl
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/13/12

Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5555970 - 12/05/12 04:44 PM

Mine with mount weighs about 100lbs...it is huge. I wouldn't attempt to package it for sale.

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turtle86
Pooh-Bah Everywhere Else
*****

Reged: 10/09/06

Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5555992 - 12/05/12 04:56 PM

Good arguments on both sides. Willingness to ship sure expands the market, but packaging a large scope is indeed a major PITA. I once packed and shipped a 12" LX200, and that was no fun; at the time I muttered "never again".

Couldn't even imagine packaging and shipping my present 18" Starmaster myself. Mine was delivered to me by the previous owner, and what was nice was that I got to check everything out and get a brief tutorial on setting it up.

If I ever do decide to sell it (highly unlikely) it would be
pickup or requiring the buyer to pay for having the scope professionally packaged--easily an all-day job I would imagine. No way I'd ever do it myself.


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Project Galileo
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: Jefferson County, Colorado
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: turtle86]
      #5556028 - 12/05/12 05:16 PM

I drove from Denver, Colorado to St. George, Utah to pick up my 16 dob. It was a fun trip, I got to try out and inspect the telescope fully before buying, and the gas was cheaper than shipping would have been by more than double. The seller was an avid astronomer with all kinds of other telescopes that I got to play with too. On the way home the night was spectacularly clear. I stopped in the Utah desert, set it up, and enjoyed some wonderful views. The trip was part of the fun for me.

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Mike B
Starstruck
*****

Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5556063 - 12/05/12 05:44 PM

Quote:

Get real sellers: widen your sales area and ship your scope!!



Most of us with larger-sized Dobs are fairly experienced observers, and serious about our gear, and our viewing; likewise, i'd bet *most* of us are *NOT* experienced packers & shippers. Why would we be? Personally, i have zero desire to become experienced at packing & shipping something of this magnitude! I have much better things to do with my time & effort... and that might very well include a roadtrip "vacation" that involved seein' some earthly sights & meetin' some fine folks who are, like me, into scopin' (and probably NOT into packing & shipping either ).

Otherwise, 99% of us buy large items like houses & cars that are within driving distance... why would buying a large telescope be any different? Yes, it means waiting & watching the "used" ads pop up. But it works for most who try it, who stick to it for any reasonable time (how long does it take to get a "new" Dob of fairly large size made?).

Quote:

I know DOB owners are a lazy bunch to begin with but man, what's up with that? I mean, they came in a box didn't they? So why is it so hard to put it back in the box?



The short version?
Packing:
1) skills
2) time+effort (we're lazy, remember?)
3) cost
4) risk, goon-exposure... ever heard the damage claim nightmares with Fed-UPS? No thank-you, ain't interested.
5) ultimately, we'd quite likely be competing for sales with sellers closer, who can simply drive+meet. We, the shipper stand much to lose, & little to gain.

And as for #1 above, packing "skills", can YOU fold up a tent or air-mattress to fit *perfectly* back in the box it came out of? Yeah, me neither. 'Tis easier said than done.

This "issue" is so very much like a fix in desperate need of a problem.


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Joel
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 07/08/04

Loc: Merrimack, NH
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5556130 - 12/05/12 06:21 PM

Quote:

Isn't your time worth money? Mine is. Driving hundreds of miles to rendezvous cost you more than you think





I buy totally into the argument that my time is worth money, that's why I would never pay the money to ship a dob or take the time to pack it or pay someone else to do it. That's why I'm sure I'll never own a "premium" dob. Besides I could buy one of them for less than 50 cents on the dollar less than 2 hours from my house.

Edited by Joel (12/05/12 06:22 PM)


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kfiscus
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/12

Loc: Albert Lea, MN, USA
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Mike B]
      #5556133 - 12/05/12 06:22 PM

Shipping is a nightmare. Expensive, time-consuming, anxiety for a week of wondering how the big beast is doing. I'm driving 200 miles round-trip tomorrow to pickup my new-to-me used Z12 from the seller. No worries other than hitting a deer. I'd rather spend some gas money driving than sit at home worrying about a goon hurting my scope. I will also get to meet a new astro friend.

Also, I kept my box from my Z12 that I parted out and I'm getting my upgraded Z12 with its boxes. Those big boxes and nice styrofoam packing pieces come in handy and can be sold for a profit to others that threw theirs away.

Edited by kfiscus (12/05/12 06:25 PM)


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GregB
member


Reged: 07/17/05

Loc: Turlock, Ca
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: kfiscus]
      #5556160 - 12/05/12 06:36 PM

The cost of shipping is prohibitive. Right now I have an AD10 for sale. If I break down the base and repack everything in the original boxes (which I still have) it would run about $175 to $200 dollars to ship from west to east coast. When you can buy the same scope new for $500 shipped to your door I would have to sell for $300 or less just to match what Apertura can do for a new scope - probably have to be down around $200 to make it worth while for someone to even consider. Someone else here on the forum just parted out a dob because they couldn't sell it intact.

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kfiscus
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/12

Loc: Albert Lea, MN, USA
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: GregB]
      #5556320 - 12/05/12 08:02 PM

Yep, that would be me. Take a deep breath and post a "Parting it Out" ad. You can MAKE money. I had the whole thing sold in one day except for the cheapo EPs.

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Peter Natscher
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/06

Loc: Central Coast California
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5556594 - 12/05/12 10:41 PM

Rick charged me $1,200 to personally drive the 24"er out here to my door on the California coast from Kansas (1,800 mi.) in 2008. He doesn't box and ship this size scope or larger -- he personally delivers them and charges you for his expense and then some (mini-vacation?). The buyer of this 24"er two years later paid me the $1,000 cost of packing, crating (4x4x4 ft. pallet/crate package), and insurance to truck the 500 lb. load 3,000 mi. to the east coast in five days over the winter, with Yellow Truck Lines. It arrived in perfect condition. The pallet method is the way to ship longer distances. Aboard a truck, no other loads are touching what's on your pallet. I spent none of my personal or work time in delivering that large Dob and got a sales price for the Dob that probably would have matched what a more local buyer would have paid, but without my having to drive and rendezvous somewhere at my own expense and loss of time.

Quote:

Quote:


I've had seven Starmaster's shipped to my door 2,000 miles from Kansas via UPS. Rick does a great job with packing and shipping and he *ships* all his scopes via UPS under 24" in size. I've also crated and shipped a 24" Starmaster clear across to US from CA to NJ and it worked great with no problems. Get a shipper to do the proper packing and trucking.




How much did it cost for Starmaster to ship that 24 inch to you, how did it cost you to pack and ship it from CA to NJ?

Me, that's too much like work...

Jon




Edited by Peter Natscher (12/05/12 10:45 PM)


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Jeff B
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/30/06

Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: kfiscus]
      #5556603 - 12/05/12 10:46 PM

This has been an interesting discussion. I've been thinking about a big DOB but I'm not so sure now. I could be stuck with a white elephant (like a 16" lightbridge ) I guess good follow up questions would be does it really matter? Is it a real a problem to sell locally? Am I going to be basically stuck with the scope once I buy it unless I get lucky enough to find a local buyer?

I live in the mid west and from my perspective as a buyer, it IS a problem as most of the interesting stuff is somewhere on a coast line, many hundreds of miles away so my selection is really limited.

It's never really bothered me to crate and ship large (8"+) refractors and associated mountings in multiple crates. Why would big DOBs be different? A big scope is a big scope.

Jeff


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kfiscus
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/12

Loc: Albert Lea, MN, USA
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jeff B]
      #5556658 - 12/05/12 11:24 PM

I think that we have gone from big to HUGE. The pallet method sounds like the way to go for whoppers but not for deals in the few hundred dollar range. I really like the sound of having a scope on a pallet with nothing else being stacked on it. Using regular shipping like Fed, Brown, or Snail means conveyor belts, drops, and other unpleasantness.

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Mike B
Starstruck
*****

Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jeff B]
      #5556696 - 12/06/12 12:04 AM

Quote:

I live in the mid west and from my perspective as a buyer, it IS a problem as most of the interesting stuff is somewhere on a coast line, many hundreds of miles away so my selection is really limited.



Funny you should say that. I'm located on the left coast, and when i was "shopping" for a used Dob (the one in my sig! ), they all seemed to be in Texas! No way was i driving that far!

Kept waiting & watching... within about 3 months of starting, the 15" Starsplitter showed up close enough to drive & meet half-way (~2 hour trip e/w). Was a simply wonderful way to buy a scope! No guessing, no worries, see the gear & handle it, pop in at a nearby bank & transfer funds- easy on all concerned!

Kept in perspective, as i alluded to earlier- if buying "new", the same scope would've been AT LEAST 50% more cost, and probably a 6-month to year wait for delivery.

Still, it ain't a Lightbridge. You can get something like a LB, new, shipped immediately from a certified vendor for half what i paid for a *used* custom-built Dob with "premium" USA-polished optics. So there's probably two separate metrics for used Dobs- stock asian or premium. Maybe a third, too- Peter's "pallet" scenario for the really large & costly monsters.

No one would pallet-ship a LightBridge... and using terms like "drop-ship" & "premium 24-inch Dob" in the same sentence gives me a twitch.


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Tom Andrews
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 01/25/07

Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: kfiscus]
      #5556698 - 12/06/12 12:05 AM

I sold 2 dobs this past August and September.

The first was a Z8 which I disassembled and packed in its original boxes. It shipped from Albuquerque to southern Illinois via FedEx and cost $120.00. I sold the scope for $300.00 and split the shipping evenly. I would not have paid almost half the price of the sale on shipping so splitting the cost made that sale possible.

The second was a Discovery 12.5" split-tube. I bought it new in 2007 and it shipped in 5 boxes. I priced shipping via FedEx from Albuquerque to New York: 4 boxes = $800.00. I was selling it for $1000.00. How much sense does that make? Freight lines would almost certainly have been less expensive but not enough to make it worth it to me or the seller to ship...lost that sale. I ended up selling it to a guy in Denver and we both traveled 3 hours each way to meet half-way.

What I learned during this process was that if you have an "ACCOUNT" with these companies, the price is significantly less and if you have a commercial account the price is greatly reduced. That's how these astronomy companies can afford to ship at all. For the individual without an account, you pay ridiculous (dare I say "ludicrous") prices to ship.

Depending on the size of the dob, the distance and the arrangement for shipping between buyer and seller, shipping may be workable or not.


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Peter Natscher
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/06

Loc: Central Coast California
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jeff B]
      #5557255 - 12/06/12 10:43 AM

Don't let your fears about eventually needing to sell your big scope keep you from having and enjoying one. I enjoy observing with scopes larger than eyepieces I've owned seven Dobs between 14.5" and 24" and had no problem selling them, even from out here on the west coast. If you price the scope right, someone will buy it. Get one and enjoy!! I think you being located in the mid-west have an advantage to my location. There are more big Dob sales emanating from your region than from the east or west coasts. Plus, your never more than 1,500 mi. from any buyer. It's never taken me longer than 30 days to sell at fair used price any of my past big Dobs. All Dobs will lose 25%-45% of their new price after a few years of use. Thats' the most difficult issue in my mind.

Quote:

This has been an interesting discussion. I've been thinking about a big DOB but I'm not so sure now. I could be stuck with a white elephant (like a 16" lightbridge ) I guess good follow up questions would be does it really matter? Is it a real a problem to sell locally? Am I going to be basically stuck with the scope once I buy it unless I get lucky enough to find a local buyer?

I live in the mid west and from my perspective as a buyer, it IS a problem as most of the interesting stuff is somewhere on a coast line, many hundreds of miles away so my selection is really limited.

It's never really bothered me to crate and ship large (8"+) refractors and associated mountings in multiple crates. Why would big DOBs be different? A big scope is a big scope.

Jeff




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Peter Natscher
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/28/06

Loc: Central Coast California
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Mike B]
      #5557273 - 12/06/12 10:54 AM Attachment (16 downloads)

My current 24" StarStructure was shipped via air from Florida to California and then trucked 100 mi. to me on the coast for $1,000. It was packed very well on a pallet by Mike Zammit of SS. Entire load was 500 lbs. Photo shows two plywood sides removed to expose packing. The 55 lbs. Kennedy primary and cell are in there too. This is an expensive delivery, but not for a $20,000 scope. Any good local shipper (not UPS) an do this for you.

-----------
No one would pallet-ship a LightBridge... and using terms like "drop-ship" & "premium 24-inch Dob" in the same sentence gives me a twitch.

Edited by Peter Natscher (12/06/12 10:56 AM)


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ckwastro
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/23/05

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5557290 - 12/06/12 11:11 AM

I do understand the OP's point of view & frustration. I've found several scopes on that other site I was interested in buying, but they were all on the east coast and pickup only. That's the way it goes, so I keep looking until I find something local, or put up a wanted ad for my area.

Having said that, I'm still firmly in the *will not ship* camp as well. Back in 2001, I think my 14.5" Starmaster from Rick was around $400 or so in shipping costs. I certainly did not have the extra room to store the boxes. When I sold it, I listed it as a local pickup only. No problem selling it. The scope was in excellent condition after 7 years, and we both got a great deal, and both of us were very happy. It was a win-win, and it took maybe two hours of my time to put it in the car and drive it over to his house, unpack it and come home. Far less time than arranging for packing & shipping (or trying to do it myself), and far less cost to both of us.


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csrlice12
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: ckwastro]
      #5557297 - 12/06/12 11:16 AM

"I ended up selling it to a guy in Denver and we both traveled 3 hours each way to meet half-way."

That would be around Raton, NM......hope you both had time to try it out in THOSE dark skies....Nice black area all over down there...


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csa/montana
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jeff B]
      #5557301 - 12/06/12 11:17 AM

Quote:

Exactly what the title says. Almost NOBODY is willing to ship a DOB to make a sale on the used market. "Pickup only".

I know DOB owners are a lazy bunch to begin with but man, what's up with that? I mean, they came in a box didn't they? So why is it so hard to put it back in the box?

Jeff




Many may not save the original shipping box to ship in; if homemade, trying to find suitable boxes may be a problem. I think COST is the major factor, certainly not "lazy bunch". I just had a Tupperware container shipped UPS to me, from 100 miles away, and the shipping came to $18!!!!!


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csrlice12
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: csa/montana]
      #5557323 - 12/06/12 11:32 AM

not to mention, those of us lucky enough to live near a bricknmorter store don't keep the boxes...If you add the cost of boxes big enough, the time and materials for packing, and the time and shipping costs; the sellor wouldn't hardly have anything left from the sale.....

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bsim
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5557335 - 12/06/12 11:38 AM

Quote:

All Dobs will lose 25%-45% of their new price after a few years of use. Thats' the most difficult issue in my mind.





If depreciation is an issue, then buy used. It's already discounted and you can recover your cost if you sell it later. I've seen some fabulous sales on Astromart.


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Doug Culbertson
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: bsim]
      #5557420 - 12/06/12 12:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

All Dobs will lose 25%-45% of their new price after a few years of use. Thats' the most difficult issue in my mind.





If depreciation is an issue, then buy used. It's already discounted and you can recover your cost if you sell it later. I've seen some fabulous sales on Astromart.




That. When I was getting back into the hobby after a break for a couple of years, I was on the verge of buying an Orion 14" goto dob when I was alerted to a 14.5" Starmaster with CZ mirror and goto for not a whole lot more than the Orion telescope. Having owned a couple of Starmasters previously it was a no-brainer. I met the seller halfway between my place and Tampa and we had a pleasant chat for about an hour while we moved the telescope from his car to mine. If I ever sell this one, it will be pickup or delivery only, and I doubt that I will lose any money on it.


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ckwastro
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: bsim]
      #5557447 - 12/06/12 12:28 PM

Yep, the deals are out there. Just have to look around and will yourself to be patient for the right one.

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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: kfiscus]
      #5557479 - 12/06/12 12:46 PM

When i sold my last two dobs i parted them out so it would be easier to ship but i still am nervouse about shipping primary mirrors!!! I shipped a 12" primary to canada and it cost me 87.00!!!!!

Also when dennis at dob stuff was redoing my scope for me i had to send him my primary and it cost a whopping 115.00!!!

Shipping a dob is definitly a problem you just neeed to forget unless its anything under 8" in size then you could possibly get away with it

I would however consider shipping if i part the dob out but yet again you sort of lose a couple bucks


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DeanS
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: whirlpoolm51]
      #5557582 - 12/06/12 01:47 PM

I drove about 800 miles round trip to pick up my starmaster. Was worth every minute on the road to insure it would be home safely.

Perhaps post a wanted ad within the area you are willing to drive in a day. Someone might be willing to meet you part of the way as well.

Dean


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Bob S.
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: DeanS]
      #5557608 - 12/06/12 02:03 PM

I once drove 6500 miles to retrieve a like-new 20" f/4.3 Zambuto/Starmaster and took it to a star party in Northern California and then on to Sierra Vista to get a drive installed. Was pulling a tear-drop trailer behind me and stayed in lovely State parks along the way. Also stayed off the superslabs for 2/3 of the trip.

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Cotts
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Bob S.]
      #5557879 - 12/06/12 05:01 PM

I picked up my Teeter from Rob on my way to the WSP so there are no boxes at all. I had it for sale for a while and would have been willing to meet someone or drop it of on my way to a US Star Party such as TSP, WSP and OKIE. Packing for third party shipping and the actual shipping itself would have added 25% to the price..
Plus, I wouldn't trust ANY shipper with it.

There were no takers (not so much as one inquiry) so I pulled the ad and am thinking of a way to keep it now.

Dave


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Bill Weir
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Cotts]
      #5558593 - 12/07/12 01:22 AM

Quote:


There were no takers (not so much as one inquiry) so I pulled the ad and am thinking of a way to keep it now.

Dave




I'm glad you decided to try and figure out a way to make it work. If you still can't then drag it around to star parties with a for sale sign on it. It will eventually sell.

Me, before my Satrmaster was ready and I learned of the shipping cost it was a bit of a shock but not totally. I then did the math of what it would cost to drive to the far side of Kansas and back and decided it would cost more to do that. Then that's also believing my little rather old truck would live through the trip in February.

I chose the scope carefully believing my decendants will have to deal with finding a buyer. I think twice often thrice before buying anything.

I think people don't want to pack things and ship because then it there is damage the courier will claim it is because of your poor packaging. This is why Peter suggested having the shipper doing the packaging. Shippers will package things for shipping. It might cost you but then it will also be insured because they know they packed it. My Starmaster was package by UPS. That's what Rick said.

Recently I shipped a bunch of my deceased Mother's very fragile things across country to my sister. I paid to have it packed and shipped. Out of a large amount of fragile one of a kind pottery and china only one small piece of one delicate sculpture work was broken. That was amazing but then again I watched then pack it. They took great care because any damage was their dime.

Try and convince the seller to have it packed and shipped as long as you are willing to pay. I wouldn't expect the seller to pay.

Bill


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5558702 - 12/07/12 06:10 AM

Quote:

My current 24" StarStructure was shipped via air from Florida to California and then trucked 100 mi. to me on the coast for $1,000. It was packed very well on a pallet by Mike Zammit of SS. Entire load was 500 lbs. Photo shows two plywood sides removed to expose packing. The 55 lbs. Kennedy primary and cell are in there too. This is an expensive delivery, but not for a $20,000 scope. Any good local shipper (not UPS) an do this for you.

.




In my younger days, I worked as a truck mechanic and driver for a small LTL trucking company, I know what happens on loading docks, in the back of the truck... forks through the side, 3000 miles of bouncing along on 120psi tires, probably the most wear and tear the scope will see in a life time. A fancy scope on a pallet, I would have my fingers crossed big time.

Jon


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BigC
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5558826 - 12/07/12 08:31 AM

Having been around loading and shipping docks for several years in my life I can verify that freight is handled in the way that moves the most as fast as possible,NOT gently.

When buying new stuff the manufacturer has knowledge of how to pack and access to proper packing materials that the average person doesn't possess.Nearly everything I have bough new suggests keeping the original box(es) and packing materials in case of a need to return the item for service!
BUt how many people have an extra room just to store all those boxes?

Ny big USED Dobs 0f 8 to 12" have all been bought by driving to the seller's location and those sold later were picked up by the buyer.Shipping would have added a lot of hassle and expense.
Shipping smaller scopes is much easier to find boxes and packing ..


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Ian Robinson
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: BigC]
      #5558868 - 12/07/12 09:06 AM

Quote:

Having been around loading and shipping docks for several years in my life I can verify that freight is handled in the way that moves the most as fast as possible,NOT gently.

When buying new stuff the manufacturer has knowledge of how to pack and access to proper packing materials that the average person doesn't possess.Nearly everything I have bough new suggests keeping the original box(es) and packing materials in case of a need to return the item for service!
BUt how many people have an extra room just to store all those boxes?

Ny big USED Dobs 0f 8 to 12" have all been bought by driving to the seller's location and those sold later were picked up by the buyer.Shipping would have added a lot of hassle and expense.
Shipping smaller scopes is much easier to find boxes and packing ..




Why can't people keep their original shipping boxes (just stash them under the house, in the attic or up in the rafters in the garage or other handy place)? That's what I do.


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Peter Natscher
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5559013 - 12/07/12 10:34 AM

Of all the scopes StarStructure has shipped to date, Mike says none were damaged. Since 1996, I've had seven new Starmaster's shipped to me via UPS 1,800 mi. by truck from Kansas and all delivered perfectly. I know of three 24" StarStructure's out here in CA and all were flown out from Florida and then trucked and hour or two to their locales -- two 24" StarStructure's are now operating well in the SF Bay Area and mine in Monterey. Mirror maker Steve Kennedy has his personal 28" StarStructure in Anza, S. Cal. It arrived fine. All 24" scopes arrived perfectly, a statement as to Mike's great packing.

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Starman1
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Ian Robinson]
      #5559020 - 12/07/12 10:40 AM

Quote:

Why can't people keep their original shipping boxes (just stash them under the house, in the attic or up in the rafters in the garage or other handy place)? That's what I do.



1) house is on slab--no basement.
2) no attic.
3) no place in the house for even one of the 5 boxes.
(1853 sq.ft.)
4) "Garage" is a car port--no protection from rain.
So, I saved the mirror box (for shipping for recoating), but all the others had to go. I literally would have had to store the boxes in the living room.


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Darenwh
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Ian Robinson]
      #5559055 - 12/07/12 10:58 AM

Quote:

Why can't people keep their original shipping boxes (just stash them under the house, in the attic or up in the rafters in the garage or other handy place)? That's what I do.




Because many people do not have enough storage to store large boxes.


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csrlice12
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Ian Robinson]
      #5559185 - 12/07/12 12:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Having been around loading and shipping docks for several years in my life I can verify that freight is handled in the way that moves the most as fast as possible,NOT gently.

When buying new stuff the manufacturer has knowledge of how to pack and access to proper packing materials that the average person doesn't possess.Nearly everything I have bough new suggests keeping the original box(es) and packing materials in case of a need to return the item for service!
BUt how many people have an extra room just to store all those boxes?

Ny big USED Dobs 0f 8 to 12" have all been bought by driving to the seller's location and those sold later were picked up by the buyer.Shipping would have added a lot of hassle and expense.
Shipping smaller scopes is much easier to find boxes and packing ..




Why can't people keep their original shipping boxes (just stash them under the house, in the attic or up in the rafters in the garage or other handy place)? That's what I do.




Because some people don't live in houses with sheds, attics, lots of closets, etc...They're living in small apartments with limited storage room. Let's see, Lamp or Telescope to see in the dark????? ...or, mount a light bulb on the Dob front cover and put a lampshade on your dob....


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Mike B
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Darenwh]
      #5559210 - 12/07/12 12:19 PM

Quote:

4) "Garage" is a car port--no protection from rain.



Where we lived in Santa Barbara, many carports had large storage cabinets hung along the "back", where a cars "nose" would project under. Even so, there typically wasn't much room to spare in these for large scope-ship boxes.


Quote:

(just stash them under the house, in the attic or up in the rafters in the garage or other handy place)



I did so with the large box my 10" Meade SCT came in- both the "pretty" retail box, and it's outer shipping box- and the inner Styrofoam pieces- all packed within one another. Stayed in my reasonably clean garage for the 10+ years i owned the scope.

The dark-foam liner it had been shipped cradled in, inside the box, i used to store the scope between uses, inside my home in a closet.

When selling it, the buyer came to my home. Didn't want the boxes. Good thing, too, because upon opening them up i found that mice had been using it as a gymnasium, cafeteria, bedroom & nursery, & outhouse.

As a result, i'm pretty picky about the "boxes" i keep.


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Mike B
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5559215 - 12/07/12 12:23 PM

Quote:

...or, mount a light bulb on the Dob front cover and put a lampshade on your dob....



... and see how long before the spousal unit notices you've snuck a new into the menagerie!


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csrlice12
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Mike B]
      #5559285 - 12/07/12 01:16 PM

Tell her it's a designer lamp.....

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City Kid
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jeff B]
      #5559561 - 12/07/12 04:23 PM Attachment (29 downloads)

Just for some perspective, this is how my 12.5" came:

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csrlice12
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: City Kid]
      #5559758 - 12/07/12 06:26 PM

Quote:

Just for some perspective, this is how my 12.5" came:




You mean it took all those boxes to ship that 12.5" long scope on the table back there???? That was some serious packing...


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Mike B
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5559764 - 12/07/12 06:30 PM

Are you kidding? Judging by the door & casing adjacent to it, its a good 15-16" scope. He MUST mean another scope...


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George N
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #5564673 - 12/10/12 06:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:


There were no takers (not so much as one inquiry) so I pulled the ad and am thinking of a way to keep it now.

Dave




I'm glad you decided to try and figure out a way to make it work. If you still can't then drag it around to star parties with a for sale sign on it. It will eventually sell.

.....Bill




Personally, I’d never buy a premium Dob without seeing it first. I’ve seen enough of them in pretty ratty shape at star parties to be skeptical of any description. I remember one Obsession 25 that looked like it had been dragged thru the mud…. still worked fine though. My 20-inch Dob was delivered to my house by the seller who drove 400 miles to do it. He was looking for a smaller scope and was happy to see the thing gone.

I have sold a large hi-end GEM by advertizing it “for pick up at Stellafane” on A’mart. It sold in less than a day and the sale worked out fine. I’ve seen similar adds for meeting at NEAF. I could see a buyer/seller working out something for a major star party (TSP, etc) swap where they would share the scope for their time there.


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Astro Sky
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: George N]
      #5564747 - 12/10/12 07:20 PM

Have shipped over two hundred dobs from 8 " to 24", only one minor damage on rocker box very small scratch 10 years ago. One scope take 6 to 8 hours to packing.

Edited by Astro Sky (12/10/12 07:21 PM)


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George N
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Astro Sky]
      #5564925 - 12/10/12 09:21 PM

Quote:

Have shipped over two hundred dobs from 8 " to 24", only one minor damage on rocker box very small scratch 10 years ago. One scope take 6 to 8 hours to packing.




With all of that experience, and being “in the business”, you obviously know *how* to do it correctly. The used Dob owner has no experience packing such delicate instruments and just wants to get rid of a scope with as little fuss as possible!

The used-scope buyer has to not only consider the original builder’s reputation but also how well the seller has maintained the scope, and is not getting the builder’s warrantee.

For those who don’t want to spend a day or 3 driving, you are taking a chance on scope condition, or quality of packing done by someone with no experience doing it. You can also buy new….. for a lot more money in most cases.

Considering the number of ‘pick up only’ ads out there, it seems that that method works, at least for the sellers.


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Peter Natscher
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: George N]
      #5564975 - 12/10/12 09:56 PM

If the scope is being sold via AM, then you can pay attention to the seller's ratings stars and ratings given by buyers.

Quote:

Quote:

Have shipped over two hundred dobs from 8 " to 24", only one minor damage on rocker box very small scratch 10 years ago. One scope take 6 to 8 hours to packing.




With all of that experience, and being “in the business”, you obviously know *how* to do it correctly. The used Dob owner has no experience packing such delicate instruments and just wants to get rid of a scope with as little fuss as possible!

The used-scope buyer has to not only consider the original builder’s reputation but also how well the seller has maintained the scope, and is not getting the builder’s warrantee.

For those who don’t want to spend a day or 3 driving, you are taking a chance on scope condition, or quality of packing done by someone with no experience doing it. You can also buy new….. for a lot more money in most cases.

Considering the number of ‘pick up only’ ads out there, it seems that that method works, at least for the sellers.




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bremms
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: George N]
      #5565030 - 12/10/12 10:32 PM

Heck, you could make another Dob out of the crate it comes in!

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ed_turco
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: bremms]
      #5565989 - 12/11/12 01:49 PM

Another thought. I sent my niece and nephew a 6" dob, from RI to NC a while back. With UPS boxing the item, it cost me over $500 to send it. That ****ed base weighed a ton! And there was no way my family down there could fabricate a new base.

They got it in one piece, and in their words, "It was grand!!"


Ed


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GregB
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: ed_turco]
      #5567644 - 12/12/12 01:54 PM

I just checked shipping costs for my AD10 10" dob. If I repack in the original cartons (breakdown the base) to ship from California to NY would run from $175 to $200 depending on whether I used USPS, UPS or Fedex ground. If you had to purchase new packing materials that would add even more, maybe another $100 or so.

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mistyridge
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: GregB]
      #5567904 - 12/12/12 04:23 PM

Sold my 18" Teeter a couple of years ago very local..15 miles. No way was I going to ship that beast. Just boxing would have cost a goodly percentage of the selling price.

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Jon Isaacs
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Astro Sky]
      #5568713 - 12/13/12 06:20 AM

Quote:

Have shipped over two hundred dobs from 8 " to 24", only one minor damage on rocker box very small scratch 10 years ago. One scope takes 6 to 8 hours to pack.






Myself, I am not prepared to spend 6 to 8 hours to pack a scope and in any event, when I sell, I want the buyer to really know what he/she is getting.

Jon


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csa/montana
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5569013 - 12/13/12 10:55 AM

I've only shipped my 8" dob. However, it was very easy; as I keep the shipping boxes, so just used them.

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BigC
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: ed_turco]
      #5569459 - 12/13/12 03:24 PM

Quote:

Another thought. I sent my niece and nephew a 6" dob, from RI to NC a while back. With UPS boxing the item, it cost me over $500 to send it. That ****ed base weighed a ton! And there was no way my family down there could fabricate a new base.

They got it in one piece, and in their words, "It was grand!!"


Ed


???? $500 would have paid for a brand new 6 or 8 inch from Orion,Zhumell,Apertura, or astronomics delivered !

I conclude the compaines get a huge break on shipping fees versus what the private person must pay.


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Pinbout
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Astro Sky]
      #5569530 - 12/13/12 04:22 PM

Quote:

Have shipped over two hundred dobs from 8 " to 24", only one minor damage on rocker box very small scratch 10 years ago. One scope take 6 to 8 hours to packing.




can you make a video of how your telescopes are packed an post it on your website?


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Mark Harry
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jeff B]
      #5570391 - 12/14/12 07:14 AM

Just reading original post:
******
I just sold mirror only- conus: offered the local deal on the whole scope for a very important reason.
Base weighs over 100#, and the OTA was right at 100#. Can you imagine what it would look like after UPS had it for a couple weeks???? And the cost to ship????
I shudder to think about it.
Mark


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echoes1961
sage


Reged: 09/14/12

Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: kfiscus]
      #5581946 - 12/21/12 06:54 AM

Look at it this way..Would you ship a hot water heater? Kind of the same situation.

Also...The best time to sell a big dob is when you are also selling a pickup truck and sell both as a 2 for 1 deal. They catch a bus to where you live and drive the truck and scope home.


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kfiscus
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: echoes1961]
      #5582517 - 12/21/12 01:30 PM

That's good!

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Mike B
Starstruck
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: echoes1961]
      #5582521 - 12/21/12 01:33 PM

Quote:

Look at it this way..Would you ship a hot water heater?




Not unless i removed the mirror first... wouldn't want it damaged in transit...


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cloud_cover
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Reged: 08/17/10

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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Mike B]
      #5592067 - 12/28/12 01:19 AM

I've been following this thread silently. To give some background I live outside the USA so for me shipping is MANDATORY unless by some coincidence I end up in the same city at the time of the sale.
Since I have been shopping (and just purchased) a mid-sized Dob (14"), I've been sourcing out some shipping options:
1. Firstly, UPS will pack and ship. In fact, one very premium Dob maker gave me their contact for the local UPS store who does their crating for them. Yes, it will cost a few hundred dollars, but for a foreigner (alien!) like me, its still cheaper than a return economy flight.
2. Some Dob makers will help out: They either have their own crating or they have shippers to crate for them. If your intended seller (or if you, the seller) lives close to one of these guys, then it may be a viable option to ask them to help out.
A nice point about getting UPS to pack - they then become responsible for any shipping damage. Just make sure you take the "before" shots and inisure the package fully.
Another thing to note: Always remove the mirror and pack. Spectrum Coatings gives pretty good instructions on how to do so
Shipping will make your Dobs, especially your expensive, large, truss tube dobs so much more marketable, and for us foreign aliens, more available.


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northernontario
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: cloud_cover]
      #5593360 - 12/28/12 09:14 PM

It must cost a fortune to ship a scope from the USA to Canada.

jake


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Bill Weir
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: northernontario]
      #5593590 - 12/28/12 11:54 PM

Quote:

It must cost a fortune to ship a scope from the USA to Canada.

jake




Yup, that's why I had mine shipped to a relative of a friend in the US just south of the border. I then caught the ferry off the island, drove across the border and brought it back myself. That way I only had to deal with taxes and none of that brokerage garbage. Even then it still cost a fortune.

Bill


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okieav8rAdministrator
I'd rather be flying!
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #5595436 - 12/30/12 01:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

It must cost a fortune to ship a scope from the USA to Canada.

jake




Yup, that's why I had mine shipped to a relative of a friend in the US just south of the border. I then caught the ferry off the island, drove across the border and brought it back myself. That way I only had to deal with taxes and none of that brokerage garbage. Even then it still cost a fortune.

Bill




Heck, it's been my experience that it costs a fortune to send pretty much anything to Canada.


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Patrick
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Reged: 05/16/03

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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: okieav8r]
      #5595474 - 12/30/12 02:05 AM

When I bought my CPC1100, the first owner did not have the original boxes and I wanted the box in case I wanted to sell it. I actually 'purchased' an empty box from Starizona for nothing and had them ship it to me. It cost me $150 to ship that empty box, exactly the same price as it would have cost with the scope in it!

Patrick


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cloud_cover
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/17/10

Loc: Restaurant at the End of the U...
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Patrick]
      #5595560 - 12/30/12 04:19 AM

That's because shippers take into account both the actual weight as well as the volumetric weight - this is because even feather-light objects, such as your empty box take up space in a shipping vehicle.
DHL (my usual shipper) uses this formula: LengthxBreadthxHeight (in cm) / 5000 = Volumetric Weight in Kg
Unfortunately telescopes are mostly empty space so their shipping weight (volumetric) tends to be far higher than their actual weight. Even for something so dense to ship as a disassembled truss tube Dob.


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hottr6
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jeff B]
      #5596060 - 12/30/12 12:27 PM

Shipping a big dob (> 16") is a lot easier than shipping a small dob. The big dob can be strapped to a pallet, with the delicate stuff packed in a separate box (ship it by air). You need a loading dock for this. I can ship a big dob across country for a couple of hundred dollars. If you worry about picking up a couple of dings along the way, you can wrap cardboard around the piece(s) and then wrap it all with plastic.

You could ship smaller dobs this way, but the shipping price will remain about the same.

This may horrify owners who want their dob to look like a piece of Stickley furniture, but for equipment that gets used, it will receive its share of war scratches anyway.

Packing and shipping is not rocket science. It's just not for the lazy.


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: hottr6]
      #5597455 - 12/31/12 06:37 AM

Have you ever actually shipped a 16 inch Dob across the country just strapped to a pallet? In my younger days I worked for an LTL trucking company. I know what goes on on a loading dock, in the back of a truck. Pallets get pushed around with the forks.. the forks slip, 3000 miles in a freight trailer is a lot of pounding... Drivers don't always properly secure things.

I once shipped a 13.1 inch Coulter across the country, it was on a pallet.The pounding caused the based to self-destruct. On the other hand, I have shipped various 6 and 8inch tube dobs around the US in boxes, best are the originals, with a problem. I disassemble the bases, they ship flat.

The last Dob I bought was a 25 inch F/5.. I would never try to ship it, it was enough just loading it into our mini truck and driving a couple hundred miles... I am also skeptical that it could be shipped for a couple of hundred dollars. The mirror weighs about 80lbs, the truss tubes are about 7 feet long...

Telescopes are made to be used but they are not made to be abused. I doubt very much a buyer would share your cavalier attitude about anicks and bumps...

I'll ship smaller scopes but not big ones.

Jon


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csa/montana
Den Mama
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Reged: 05/14/05

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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: hottr6]
      #5597704 - 12/31/12 10:40 AM

Quote:

This may horrify owners who want their dob to look like a piece of Stickley furniture, but for equipment that gets used, it will receive its share of war scratches anyway.




I may be alone in my opinion; but if I was the purchaser, I would not want it to arrive with "war scratches", unless the price reflected them. I love my equipment to remain as pristine as possible; that's not saying I don't use the equipment, I just hate to see any damage to them. I always keep the manufacturer's shipping boxes, in case I sell something.


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Bill Weir
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: csa/montana]
      #5597721 - 12/31/12 10:55 AM

I wonder now about the concept of using a furniture/houshold moving company for something like my 20" scope. Recently I shipped halfway across Canada (so the same as most of the way across the US) a fair amount of rather fragile antique furniture. It arrived perfectly intact. All they did was wrap it in shipping blankets and tape them in place. Movers like this take a great deal of care because they are the ones responsible.

It might be interesting to price out the difference in cost between a courier and a moving company for a large scope. What I do know is that the moving company would be slower.

Bill


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hottr6
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5597837 - 12/31/12 11:56 AM

I would not call my attitude "cavalier", rather it is an honest suggestion based on experience.

I travel with several tons of extremely sensitive scientific sensors every year, all around the world, to some of the most challenging environments on the planet (this past year took me to Antarctica and central Africa). As a seismologist, I mother broadband sensors with a dynamic range of 146dB - to put that in perspective, these electro-mechanical sensors are sensitive enough to record ground motion of the order of the diameter of a hydrogen atom. At the other end of the scale, the same sensors can record on-scale displacements up to 6cm. This dynamic range is unmatched by any other sensor in science. Quite remarkable, really.

We ship stuff strapped to pallets. Not wooden pallets, that are essentially one-use items only, but thermo-plastic pallets which survive quite well. Another trick to survivability is not to undersize the pallet. Compared with foreign shipping companies and customs inspections, FedEx treat our equipment with kid gloves. And then we haul the gear in 4x4s over non-existent roads. Yeah, I know about shipping.

I've visited national physics, oceanographic and astronomical facilities, and military operations. Our equipment, as well as scientific equipment used by national facilities and the military, are all battle-scarred from routine use. This is an ugly fact of science. We keep the guts of our equipment operating at spec, but accept that a little paint will be lost, and scratches incurred. Life is a contact sport.

Obviously the equipment is not abused. Perhaps your concept of abuse is different to mine. Abused equipment will not deliver advertized performance, period, which would impact mission capability. Surface scratches to housings do not constitute abuse, and never will.

Maybe my professional involvement with scientific sensors has desensitized me to appearances because I am interested in data. I do whatever is necessary to capture data with full fidelity and repeatability.

As an aside, my other life is racing vintage cars and bikes. During the course of a season, we trade paint, bang the vehicle around with tools, and are always loading/off-loading on trailers. Most cars and bikes look pretty worn, but when rushing with repairs to make the start of a practice session or race, the prevailing attitude is "screw it, it's a race bike". There will always be folk with million-dollar discretionary funds who roll up with the shiniest transporter and just-restored vehicle, but I'm not one of them.

Finally, we are talking dobsonians, a ground-breaking cheap telescope design for visual use that can be built by inexperienced people with commonly available tools and materials. They are made of inexpensive plywood, and get rolled/carried in/out every night. I cannot get too excited about crying over a small scratch in plywood, especially when I cannot see it at night.

Ain't life grand that we all have different opinions based on differing experiences!


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Peter Natscher
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Reged: 03/28/06

Loc: Central Coast California
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5598932 - 12/31/12 11:56 PM

Its all in the packing. Get a competent shipper to pack it correctly. Virtually anything can and is shipped on pallets. My 24" Starmaster was trucked 3,000 mi. on a pallet along with its accessories intact and my 24" StarStructure was flown and trucked 3,000 mi. on a pallet with its 24" 70lb. primary mirror in its wooden box onboard the pallet, too. The Starmaster wasn't the most rigid wooden Dob either but made the trip perfectly. The StarStructure is a stronger welded aluminum structure. None of these two shipments showed any punch holes or abuse. THe total expense was $1,000 to ship and insure these two $15,000-$20,000 packages each on a pallet fully protected for 3,000 mi. Well worth it to me. This is how the world moves large items around

Quote:

Have you ever actually shipped a 16 inch Dob across the country just strapped to a pallet? In my younger days I worked for an LTL trucking company. I know what goes on on a loading dock, in the back of a truck. Pallets get pushed around with the forks.. the forks slip, 3000 miles in a freight trailer is a lot of pounding... Drivers don't always properly secure things.

I once shipped a 13.1 inch Coulter across the country, it was on a pallet.The pounding caused the based to self-destruct. On the other hand, I have shipped various 6 and 8inch tube dobs around the US in boxes, best are the originals, with a problem. I disassemble the bases, they ship flat.

The last Dob I bought was a 25 inch F/5.. I would never try to ship it, it was enough just loading it into our mini truck and driving a couple hundred miles... I am also skeptical that it could be shipped for a couple of hundred dollars. The mirror weighs about 80lbs, the truss tubes are about 7 feet long...

Telescopes are made to be used but they are not made to be abused. I doubt very much a buyer would share your cavalier attitude about anicks and bumps...

I'll ship smaller scopes but not big ones.

Jon




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klim
member


Reged: 08/24/08

Loc: Matamoras, PA
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5599255 - 01/01/13 09:25 AM

I was the recipient of Peter's 24" Starmaster and can attest to the fact that it arrived beautifully packed with absolutely no problems. I was at work when it arrived and the shipper moved it into my garage at my wife's request. Peter, just let me know when you're ready to ship that Starstructure out East.

Regards,

Mark


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Peter Natscher
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Reged: 03/28/06

Loc: Central Coast California
Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: klim]
      #5599547 - 01/01/13 12:44 PM

Happy New Year, Mark!

Are you ready for another 24? This one's eyepiece height is a lot lower and the frame much stiffer.


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: So How Come Nobody Wants to Ship Their DOB? new [Re: Peter Natscher]
      #5600146 - 01/01/13 06:59 PM

Quote:

THe total expense was $1,000 to ship and insure these two $15,000-$20,000 packages each on a pallet fully protected for 3,000 mi. Well worth it to me. This is how the world moves large items around







In my work, I have to ship some expensive equipment around. It takes time even though someone else does the work and it costs real money. It's a lot more effort than strapping it to a pallet and paying a freight company a couple of hundred dollars...

Jon


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