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General Astronomy >> Beginners Forum

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Scout92
member


Reged: 12/20/11

Loc: Hoquiam, WA.
Re: Supernewby looking for scope advise new [Re: CosmoSat]
      #5554196 - 12/04/12 03:48 PM

Quote:



As for the dob...the Zhumell(or Apertura) anytime over the orion...just compare the accessories they both ship with...




Just looked at the Apertura...very nice looking scope I will keep it in mind.


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Tony Flanders
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: Supernewby looking for scope advise new [Re: Scout92]
      #5554290 - 12/04/12 05:08 PM

Quote:

Its already been shipped Ill still be able to get some use out of it right?




Absolutely! People badmouth the Bird-Jones design, but it's perfectly useable. The biggest problem is that it performs like a long-focus scope in terms of narrow field of view, but performs like a short-focus scope in terms of difficult collimation.

You're unlikely to be able to collimate it within the tolerances that an experienced observer would find acceptable. But if you've never owned a scope before, the images will boggle your mind. You will still see the bands on Jupiter as well as its moons, and our own Moon will look magnificent beyond belief.

Remember, this scope is 100 times better than the one that Galileo made. And just look what he did with that!


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GOLGO13
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/05/05

Loc: St. Louis area
Re: Supernewby looking for scope advise new [Re: CosmoSat]
      #5554308 - 12/04/12 05:17 PM

The reason to pick the Orion dobs over the zhummel/apertura/astro-tech is for the Intelliscope or "Go To" versions of the Orion. If your comparing the XT classics to those GSO clones above, the Orion Xt classics are not as good a deal.

I wish we had a few good head to head articles between the GSO dobs and all the Orion lines. It'd be interesting to see some details on mirror quality, mechanics, etc.


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orion61

*****

Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: Supernewby looking for scope advise new [Re: GOLGO13]
      #5555191 - 12/05/12 06:57 AM

You can usually find a used Celestron NexStar 4GT computerised scope for that much, I just looked over on EbAy
and there are some prime examples! they have thousands of items in their data base and the scope is Go-To
Push a button and the scope finds the object for you.
It is a Maksutov Cassagrain optical design and Celestron usually has outstanding optics, so things like Jupiters Belts, its Moons casting a shadow as they pass in front of the Planet,Great Red Spot, Saturns rings, Mars Polar caps, and thousands of Lunar Craters, along with the changing Phazes of Venus, Many galaxys and Nebula can be seen with it as well.
As you grow in the Hobby and want a bigger scope this will still be usefull as a Grab and Go scope. plus they are very good for Land Based Nature viewing, you can shut the tracking motors off and use the hand Controller to point at Birds and other Views!!!


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Meadeball
sage


Reged: 10/22/12

Loc: Midlothian, Virginia
Re: Supernewby looking for scope advise new [Re: Scout92]
      #5555195 - 12/05/12 07:04 AM

Yes, the Zhumell Eclipse is the barlow design ... according to the owner reviews there's a lens at the bottom of the eyepiece drawtube (and on at least one occasion it has fallen off and damaged the mirror). One other weird little feature -- the user is required to use a screw-on extension tube between the eyepiece and focuser (Zhumell calls it an eyepiece adapter or an eyepiece extender depending on where you look in the manual). You can see it here.

I'd personally recommend Celestron's 102 GT from Costco if there are any left. I've had one for more than a year and it's my only scope at this time, and I'm no newbie -- been into the hobby for 37 years and on more of a budget than some of the other guys here. It has a few forgivable (and correctable) faults -- no scope is perfect -- but it's a steal for $199. Plus, you'll get Goto, more clear aperture than the reflector, and no collimation hassles.

Question: Can scopes like the Zhumell be accurately called Newtonian Reflectors? It would seem that the insertion of a lens in the optical path would make a unique enough difference to call for a change in design nomenclature. (I mean hey, insert a lens in an SCT's light path and you've got a Mak-Cass.) Maybe these things should be called Mak-Newts.

Meade

Edited by Meadeball (12/05/12 07:50 AM)


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orion61

*****

Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: Supernewby looking for scope advise new [Re: Meadeball]
      #5555461 - 12/05/12 10:50 AM

Quote:

Yes, the Zhumell Eclipse is the barlow design ... according to the owner reviews there's a lens at the bottom of the eyepiece drawtube (and on at least one occasion it has fallen off and damaged the mirror). One other weird little feature -- the user is required to use a screw-on extension tube between the eyepiece and focuser (Zhumell calls it an eyepiece adapter or an eyepiece extender depending on where you look in the manual). You can see it here.

I'd personally recommend Celestron's 102 GT from Costco if there are any left. I've had one for more than a year and it's my only scope at this time, and I'm no newbie -- been into the hobby for 37 years and on more of a budget than some of the other guys here. It has a few forgivable (and correctable) faults -- no scope is perfect -- but it's a steal for $199. Plus, you'll get Goto, more clear aperture than the reflector, and no collimation hassles.

Question: Can scopes like the Zhumell be accurately called Newtonian Reflectors? It would seem that the insertion of a lens in the optical path would make a unique enough difference to call for a change in design nomenclature. (I mean hey, insert a lens in an SCT's light path and you've got a Mak-Cass.) Maybe these things should be called Mak-Newts.
Meade



BUT the 102 GT is an Achromatic refractor, short focus at that and will have a lot of Chromatic Aberration so anything bright you look at (Moon Planets) at anything over the lowest power will have an annoying purple fringe around and through it that is not only distracting but lessens contrast. and unfortunately at that price does not afford the best optics. not to put down equipment but they must use virtually any lens that gets cut leaving the possibility of poor optical performance. Not saying all will be bad but going used and paying from 50-65% of new will get you a lot better scope.. remember when you want to move up in a year OR LESS who do you want to have lost the money from the new scope, to sell it used??
Good luck and welcome here, you will soon find each type of telescope has its followers and drawbacks!
here are some
refractors Chromatic aberration and smaller size, Apocromatic (color free) much higher cost per inch. but EX performance on High contrast objects

Newtonians and dobs Exposed mirrors need cleaning and recoating aluminum reflective coatings. Heavy weight and mounts, bouncy in the wind.
Can give outstanding views second only to refractors, much lower cost per inch

Compound telescopes
Mid expense, no false color needs high quality optics to compete optically, can dew or frost up easier.
Todays SCT MCT MNT SNT are built by computer control and are of highter quality (consistantly) than in the past.
Lighter weight, MANY accys available for photography etc
more comfortable viewing angles than Newtonians
better compromise , greater focus travel for Binocular viewers without useing a Barlow lens...
But what ever you do don't buy a Jones-Bird system (small lens at the base of the focuser) poor performance.


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Meadeball
sage


Reged: 10/22/12

Loc: Midlothian, Virginia
Re: Supernewby looking for scope advise new [Re: orion61]
      #5555516 - 12/05/12 11:22 AM

Since when is an f10, 1000mm focal length lens a short focus lens? Annoying purple fringe, huh? Tell me, have you looked through this telescope that I've owned for more than a year? Did you bother checking out the specs before making that focal ratio assumption?

Have you read the reviews here and elsewhere about the surprisingly excellent optics in the 102GT? Have you noted that these scopes are such a bargain and in such demand that they're being resold on ebay for more than MSRP? As recently as November 4, one of these $199.99 scopes sold for $279.99, so that owner got a 140% return on his investment. Well-treated used ones are holding anywhere from 70 to 100 percent of their investment. Another assumption refuted!

But what ever you do don't buy a Jones-Bird system.



Um, that's exactly what the guy just bought. Some of us are trying to help him find an alternative. I really don't think any discussion of catadioptrics and cassegrains is warranted here, since we're in a price range of $200 and down.

I know a $200 newt or refractor isn't the end-all to everything astronomical ... but then again, that's what the guy said his price range was in his initial post, and we're looking for bang-per-buck here. My recommendation is based upon price, experience, and actual ownership of the product for more than a year.

Edited by Meadeball (12/05/12 12:32 PM)


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orion61

*****

Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: Supernewby looking for scope advise new [Re: Meadeball]
      #5556013 - 12/05/12 05:06 PM

Yes I own one and my 4" Mak out performs it at high powers
it has color and is less accurate pointing. I never said they were bad.
And more than just the OP reads these hense the Jones Bird comment.


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Meadeball
sage


Reged: 10/22/12

Loc: Midlothian, Virginia
Re: Supernewby looking for scope advise [Re: orion61]
      #5556084 - 12/05/12 05:58 PM

I used to own a 5-inch Mak that was star-tested and deemed of excellent quality by Company Seven, and I'd swear my 102GT outperforms it. I'm kind of surprised that a refractor with an unobstructed light path could be outperformed by a a Mak-Cass of the same aperture!

"Less accurate pointing"? Not sure what you mean. The Nexstar puts any object I select in the FOV of my 25mm eyepiece every time.

What kind of Maksutov do you have there?

Meade


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Scout92
member


Reged: 12/20/11

Loc: Hoquiam, WA.
Re: Supernewby looking for scope advise new [Re: Meadeball]
      #5556950 - 12/06/12 06:42 AM

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I am going to go ahead and keep this one as a get started scope and start saving up a bigger budget for a dob. 4-5 overtimes will give me 1000 dollar budget. I'll put all the advice to good use then. Clear skies everyone!

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