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Ed Whitney
sage


Reged: 07/08/10

Loc: Palm Coast, Florida
Solar Dark Energy & Matter
      #5556624 - 12/05/12 10:57 PM

Hi All,

On the recent TV program "Nova" they were saying that the biggest mystery of the universe is Dark Energy and Dark Matter. Also, little is known why the universe is expanding. The farther away galaxies are the faster they seem to be moving away.

The question would be, exactly "what" is causing this expansion as thou the galaxies are pushing themselves away from each other and space itself appears to be getting bigger.

Now, since "stars" are the only dynamic thing we know of in the universe, then it might just be the stars themselves causing this expansion.

We all know stars convert hydrogen to helium with a fusion reaction. But, could it be that this process also creates other, perhaps unseen particles in massive quantities? These particles might be considered "exhaust gasses". In other words, the expanding universe could be caused by a gradual build-up of these particles and that is what's pushing the stars away from each other. Or, it could possibly be that dark matter and energy are remnants of nuclear fusion. This might explain why space itself is growing larger. The same follows for dark energy.

Stars contain an enormous quantiy of compressed hydrogen. The burning of any fuel type has to create some residuals. And matter itself cannot be created or destroyed, only converted, leads me to think that there must be something else going on with stars we don't yet realize.

But, has this theory already been thought of and discarded already?

Anyone care to comment on this? Thank You.

Clear Skies

Edited by Ed Whitney (12/05/12 11:02 PM)


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StarWars
Mr. Postmaster Man
*****

Reged: 11/26/03

Loc: At the Gym >Spudtastic<
Re: Solar Dark Energy & Matter new [Re: Ed Whitney]
      #5558536 - 12/07/12 12:12 AM



I've seen all the Nova programs and with regard to Dark Energy & Matter it is just an abundance of atoms/matter floating around in space. There is nothing mysterious about stray particles.


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Ed Whitney
sage


Reged: 07/08/10

Loc: Palm Coast, Florida
Re: Solar Dark Energy & Matter new [Re: StarWars]
      #5558829 - 12/07/12 08:32 AM

Well, I did get the impression that "something" was causing the galaxies to be "pushed" apart, in addition to the natural proper motion we all know of.

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scopethis
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/30/08

Loc: Kingman, Ks
Re: Solar Dark Energy & Matter new [Re: Ed Whitney]
      #5559477 - 12/07/12 03:17 PM

perhaps the galaxies are simply "falling" as spacetime expands..

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: Solar Dark Energy & Matter new [Re: scopethis]
      #5559582 - 12/07/12 04:35 PM

With style.

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Pess
(Title)
*****

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: Solar Dark Energy & Matter new [Re: Ed Whitney]
      #5559743 - 12/07/12 06:19 PM

Quote:

Hi All,

On the recent TV program "Nova" they were saying that the biggest mystery of the universe is Dark Energy and Dark Matter. Also, little is known why the universe is expanding. The farther away galaxies are the faster they seem to be moving away.

The question would be, exactly "what" is causing this expansion as thou the galaxies are pushing themselves away from each other and space itself appears to be getting bigger.

Now, since "stars" are the only dynamic thing we know of in the universe, then it might just be the stars themselves causing this expansion.

We all know stars convert hydrogen to helium with a fusion reaction. But, could it be that this process also creates other, perhaps unseen particles in massive quantities? These particles might be considered "exhaust gasses". In other words, the expanding universe could be caused by a gradual build-up of these particles and that is what's pushing the stars away from each other. Or, it could possibly be that dark matter and energy are remnants of nuclear fusion. This might explain why space itself is growing larger. The same follows for dark energy.

Stars contain an enormous quantiy of compressed hydrogen. The burning of any fuel type has to create some residuals. And matter itself cannot be created or destroyed, only converted, leads me to think that there must be something else going on with stars we don't yet realize.

But, has this theory already been thought of and discarded already?

Anyone care to comment on this? Thank You.

Clear Skies




My understanding is that it has nothing to do with stars. The expansion is the fabric of the universe itself. Like the tired old analogy of raisin bread. As the bread cooks the dough expands increasing the distance between all the raisins simultaneously.

Substitute 'space' for dough and 'stars' for raisins and you get the idea.

Why space itself is expanding is anyone's guess...

Pesse (We live in a pulled taffy universe) Mist


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Ed Whitney
sage


Reged: 07/08/10

Loc: Palm Coast, Florida
Re: Solar Dark Energy & Matter new [Re: Pess]
      #5561039 - 12/08/12 03:13 PM

The galaxies could still be moving away from us from the push the gasses got from the Big Bang. (If the Big Bang actually occured like they say it did).

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dickbill
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/30/08

Re: Solar Dark Energy & Matter new [Re: Ed Whitney]
      #5561131 - 12/08/12 04:15 PM

Dark matter has mass and obeys gravity therefore, can't we have black holes made of dark matter?

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Jarad
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/28/03

Loc: Atlanta, GA
Re: Solar Dark Energy & Matter new [Re: dickbill]
      #5563097 - 12/09/12 08:34 PM

Yes, but they would look the same as a black hole made of normal matter. In fact, assuming dark matter exists, most black holes must have swallowed some amount of it.

Jarad


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Mister T
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Solar Dark Energy & Matter new [Re: Jarad]
      #5563628 - 12/10/12 06:59 AM

so given the postulated distributions of DM in the universe, all black holes will contain both DM and Normal matter.

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Jarad
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/28/03

Loc: Atlanta, GA
Re: Solar Dark Energy & Matter new [Re: Mister T]
      #5563688 - 12/10/12 08:01 AM

Again, assuming that dark matter exists, it would be very unlikely that black holes managed to avoid swallowing any of it.

Jarad


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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: Solar Dark Energy & Matter new [Re: Jarad]
      #5563957 - 12/10/12 11:07 AM

Maybe it really tastes bad so they spit it back out again.

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Carl Coker
member


Reged: 07/30/12

Loc: Ohio
Re: Solar Dark Energy & Matter new [Re: Ed Whitney]
      #5564321 - 12/10/12 02:59 PM

The energy budget from fusion is already compeletely accounted for. The majority of the energy released becomes photons, but a portion goes into neutrinos. Nothing else besides the new nuclei is produced in fusion reactions. Neutrinos have positive energies, and thus have positive pressure, so they contribute to slowing the universe's expansion down (not much, since there really isn't all that much energy in neutrinos compared to photons or matter, but a little). Neither dark matter nor dark energy is produced in any way by fusion reactions.

Dark energy is some mysterious thing that has positive energy density and negative pressure, which is what makes it so weird and enables it to push the universe apart. It appears to be evenly distributed through space, which also would not be consistent with it forming in stars somehow. If the cosmological constant is dark energy, the energy density of dark energy is constant with time, so that more of it is continually made as space expands.

Now, the universe does have some residual expansion from the Big Bang, but dark energy is causing the expansion of the universe to accelerate, and likely starting doing so a few billion years ago, when we think the universe started to transition from being matter-dominated to dark-energy-dominated. If dark energy didn't exist, and the universe was still flat (i.e., its density was equal to the critical density), the expansion would continue forever, continually slowing down but never quite hitting zero.


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Pess
(Title)
*****

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: Solar Dark Energy & Matter new [Re: Carl Coker]
      #5564419 - 12/10/12 04:05 PM

Quote:

Dark matter has mass and obeys gravity therefore, can't we have black holes made of dark matter?




Since dark matter has mass there would be no difference measurable while observing a black hole made of dark matter, normal matter or anything for that matter....

I suspect Dark Matter is just some place-holding name for something quite common that we just have not identified as of yet.

Pesse (There was an old guy at the event horizon screaming, "HELP, I've fallen and I can't get out!) Mist


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Pess
(Title)
*****

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: Solar Dark Energy & Matter new [Re: llanitedave]
      #5564424 - 12/10/12 04:10 PM

Quote:

Maybe it really tastes bad so they spit it back out again.




Pesse (Hawking Reflux?) Mist


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