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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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James Ling
sage
*****

Reged: 09/18/10

Loc: Singapore
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: mblack]
      #5620130 - 01/13/13 02:15 AM Attachment (70 downloads)

Quote:

Hi James,

Interested in how this comparison comes off, as many of us on CloudyNights have viewed through excellent samples of Meade and Celestron catadioptric scopes.

Best of luck with those pesky clouds :>




Hi David, Alistair G. and All....

Last night we really have no luck again, and is even worst than previous weekend...
Around 6pm, thick clouds are all over the whole place, and it starts to rain... and by around 8pm, since the rain has not stopped, so we decided to call off the meet up for the 3 scopes shoot out.....

After 10pm, as the clouds start clearing, I can only use my own scopes and do a simple setup at home, using my C8 Ultima 2000 and the 152 APM ED APO....

Regards

James Ling


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James Ling
sage
*****

Reged: 09/18/10

Loc: Singapore
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: James Ling]
      #5620158 - 01/13/13 03:15 AM Attachment (128 downloads)

Hi All....

Although I do not consider this C8 Ultima 2000 and 152 APM ED APO, as a shoot out, but I think is worth to mention here my comments with regards to my 2 personal scopes...

1. The C8 Ultima 2000 is manufactured before year 2000, and has only starbright coating unlike the newer one which is XLT coating....

2. The collimation is not perfect, as I tested it last night at Aldebaran at 250X. The concentric rings is still not adjusted until I have 3 full equally spaced rings, but at least is not slew to one side....

3. The cool weather after the early rain, gives a very calm atmosphere although Jupiter is not shining as bright as the night, the 2 APM scopes did the shoot out....

4. As I need Jupiter to be in the Western side, which my 2 setup are pointing to, I waited until almost 12am midnight, then I can comfortably have Jupiter to come into view....

5. The C8 Ultima 2000, is the first to view Jupiter, and with enough cooling time, I only managed to get the best view before image breakdown , using 12.5mm plossl,around 160X...
The surface contrast of Jupiter is not very crisp and lack of details , as compared to the previous weekend view , on both the 5" triplet and 6" ED APO...when the seeing condition is very bad...
The moons of Jupiter, cannot be focused as a round disc, and maybe this is due to the scope still not in collimation...

6. Before I can view Jupiter through the APM ED APO, I thought I am going to be disappointed tonight...
But once Jupiter is spotted from the APM ED APO, the image is much better than last weekend, and I have no problem to power up to 200X, using the 2X barlow and baader zoom at 12mm...
I even drop in my 6mm Vixen LV ep, and the contrast is really sharp and well defined....
The moons of Jupiter are resolved as full disc with no CA spotted at the edges...
I tried to crank the power to 300X, but the image seems to breakdown slightly....

7. Since I have plenty of time, I took out my Canon 550D, and with a 5X barlow, I shot this photo of Jupiter,.....

REgards

James Ling


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James Ling
sage
*****

Reged: 09/18/10

Loc: Singapore
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: James Ling]
      #5620165 - 01/13/13 03:43 AM

Hi ALL...

8. After I have taken the Jupiter shot through the APM ED APO, I went over to the C8 Ultima 2000 again, and wanted to see how does M42 appears in the scope tonight....
My main focus is zooming at the trapezium stars and the gas clouds surrounding it.....
And the Ultima 2000, with its big aperture, is showing very thick gas clouds , but the trapezium stars although are visible, are not very sharp in contrast...,

9. Once M42, is visible in APM scope view, I look through, and is not difficult to determine the differences....
The trapezium stars are easily focused....and the background view is very nice....
But the gas clouds is not able to compare to the Ultima 2000 rich and thick layers....and this is due to the smaller and lesser light gathering aperture....

10. Lastly with the past few occasions of using the APM ED APO, the best view is still on the night , when it confronts the APM triplet....
It is also the only time that the APM ED APO has went beyond 300X, and still the view is great, and rivals what I have been seeing now even at 200X or 250X....
The only things that I did not understand fully is why the moons of Jupiter is showing the CA on that night, but now it did not happen again....Perhaps is brightness and high power?
As the real shoot out against the other 2 8" SCT, is not carried out, will try to do that in another weekend ...and hopefully the weather does not play hide and seek with us again...

Regards

James Ling....


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Saied Mabrouk
member


Reged: 03/30/08

Loc: Longmont, Colorado
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: James Ling]
      #5623432 - 01/14/13 09:07 PM

Thanks James. Your effort is greatly appreciated.

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Live_Steam_Mad
sage


Reged: 07/24/07

Loc: Moss Bank, St.Helens, England
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: Saied Mabrouk]
      #5623797 - 01/15/13 03:48 AM

Well a couple of nights ago I tried the "Park Scope" that someone had told me about (that I mentioned previously) for use on the LX90. I tried it on my Meade SN102 and it worked great i.e. after I parked it (using Utilities / Park Scope) then powered it off (red light goes out) and unplugged the handbox cable, then waited 5 seconds, then plugged back in the handbox cable, then powered the scope back on again, it remembered the previous alignment and GOTO worked fine, without needing to re-align on anything.

So I went up to Jon's house last night and tried Park Scope on his 8" LX90 and it worked in exactly the same way as above. And I could by doing this swap between AutoStar and AudioStar handsets with ease, depending on preference! Very cool.

And yehay his AutoStar worked fine again once it had dried out for a week. Excellent. Thank goodness.

And I got a great view of the shadow transit of Europa and the GRS in view all at the same time, plus a splotch of cloud which was a definite blue, on the left, on the top belt, to the top left of the GRS, great stuff. And I am getting up the confidence to tweak the collimation but I'll try that when it gets a bit warmer (it was -1C last night). The central obstruction is still slightly above centre in the diffraction rings when out of focus at 250x.

I did another Star Test on Polaris and this time I can see that the inner and outer rings are both slightly brighter on one side of focus than on the other. Must try swapping for the mirror diagonal plus visual back instead of just an SCT prism diagonal to see if it alters the Spherical Aberration.

Will be waiting to hear about your tests on Jupiter with 8" Edge, and normal SCT's versus the 6" semi apo / apo, when you have better weather. Very interesting.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

Edited by Live_Steam_Mad (01/15/13 03:51 AM)


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James Ling
sage
*****

Reged: 09/18/10

Loc: Singapore
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: Live_Steam_Mad]
      #5623874 - 01/15/13 06:45 AM

Hi Saied Mabrouk.

Thanks for your comment....

Hi Alistair G.

Great to hear that the handset is fine after drying it....
Also nice to hear you are able to enjoy the great view of Jupiter with its GRS and transit of Europa...with the type of cold weather.....

Hi All...

Although the 152 APM ED APO is just an ED APO, but I really want to see how well it performs against those scopes that I can get them to do the shootout....

This coming weekend, Saturday, we are going to attempt another shootout with the 2 8" SCT.....

If the APM ED APO performs well, we may do more shoot out with the 10" Meade , 11" edge , or even my 10" Mewlon...
But again, we are all referring to planetary shoot out....

As for me, I just want to take another decent single photo of Jupiter with the GRS, with my DSLR, without processing it....which is the one I've posted last weekend....when the weather permits....

Regards

James Ling


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Live_Steam_Mad
sage


Reged: 07/24/07

Loc: Moss Bank, St.Helens, England
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: James Ling]
      #5624324 - 01/15/13 12:40 PM

Quote:


Great to hear that the handset is fine after drying it....
Also nice to hear you are able to enjoy the great view of Jupiter with its GRS and transit of Europa...with the type of cold weather.....





BTW One thing that bugs me about the LX90 ACF ;-

I use my friend Jon H's LX90 8" ACF at the moment for when I like to use a larger 'scope. His is stored outside. In future I plan on getting an 8" LX90 ACF myself but I want to be able for it to be taken indoors, because of security concerns, and I am worried about the cool down issue.

Also, I want to be able to be take it to observing evenings and again cool down is an issue.

Two questions come immediately to mind ;-

1) When is Meade going to fit a fan to the LX90 OTA like their competitor offers! You know what, I think I'll write to Meade by email and tell them about this. If enough of us write a short message about this to Meade, maybe they'll make the change EDIT: OK I just sent 2 mails about this, one to Meade's Shopatron website contact address, and one to Telescope House (BCF), the UK importer for Meade, asking them to pass on the request. Since Meade is quite difficult to contact if you are in UK.

2) For those that have an 8" ACF, how long does the cool down take on the it, i.e. until the Star Test is very good, from the 'scope being indoors at 18C / 64F approx., going into outdoors temperatures of 1 or 2 C / 34 to 36 F, for the worst case scenario of winter observing?

I hate that the Celestron "equivalent" (well sort of, but more upmarket)(CPC 800 HD deluxe) is almost DOUBLE the price. I also hate it that the CPC 800 HD Del. is 20Kg (44 Lbs) instead of the 33 lbs (15Kg) of the LX90 8" ACF OTA + fork arms + base. Have to admit I'm not overly keen on equatorial mounts and balancing and counterweights. Hence the want of a Alt Az mount. If only quality larger refractors were available with Alt Az mounts!

If Meade put a fan in the 8" LX90, or if Celestron brought out a CPC 800HD with the LX90's weight, I'd buy one right now.

Hope that the 8" SCT's are cooled (i.e. are showing a very good Star Test at 250x) before the testing on Jupiter's details LOL. Can't wait for the comparo.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

Edited by Live_Steam_Mad (01/15/13 01:05 PM)


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Live_Steam_Mad
sage


Reged: 07/24/07

Loc: Moss Bank, St.Helens, England
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: Live_Steam_Mad]
      #5624548 - 01/15/13 02:35 PM

Oh Dear

I just got a reply from Meade (that was a surprise!) which reads ;-

"There are no announced plans to include a fan on any 8" model, as cool down time on scopes of this size doesn't require their use.

Please contact your UK retailer or Meade Customer Service at US 949-451-1450 for further information; department hours are 7am to 5pm Pacific Time Monday through Friday.

Best Regards,

John Piper
Manager, E-Commerce
Meade Instruments Corp."

Sorry but I don't agree with his views. I want the OTA to cool quickly (within 40 minutes) like you can do with the Lymax Cat cooler on a standard SCT of 9.25", for example, from what I read. Otherwise from what I read I would be
waiting 1 1/2 hours for it to cool. Not good if I want a 30 minute look at Jupiter after bringing it outdoors and then a 10 to 15 minute alignment / tripod levelling...

And if a fan is not needed, why the heck does Celestron sell an OTA which has one built in?!

PS I also found this interesting topic about putting a fan in an LX90 and why you would need it ;-

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/1,2,3,4,5,8,9,10/Numb...

PS I just replied to the sales person above from Meade, letting them know that they are wrong about the cooling issue, and telling them how long an ACF SCT would take to cool (from what I read) compared to if there was a fan in it that you could run AS AN OPTION.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

Edited by Live_Steam_Mad (01/15/13 03:10 PM)


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XyrcesFenol
member


Reged: 08/05/11

Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: Live_Steam_Mad]
      #5624638 - 01/15/13 03:23 PM

Maybe it is time to return this thread about APM 152 ED APO to the original topic, it is a really interesting scope.

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James Ling
sage
*****

Reged: 09/18/10

Loc: Singapore
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: XyrcesFenol]
      #5625132 - 01/15/13 08:29 PM Attachment (94 downloads)

Hi ALL....

Yes... As the 2nd 152 APM ED APO is still not heard much at all, and may only be in March....

I hope I can do more scope to scope shoot out, which I wanted to do one , if possible , before someone else receives their " previous " one......

And that is the one in this photo, has has five open oval holes towards the front of the len cell, which is very effective for cooling, as compared to closed tube....

Regards

James Ling


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chboss
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/24/08

Loc: Zurich Switzerland
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: James Ling]
      #5627377 - 01/17/13 02:50 AM

James, why compare your ED Apo to SCT's ,which have a completely different aperture and focal length?

I think a comparison to other 6" APO's would make more sense and give a real measure of this scope's performance.

best regards
Chris


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James Ling
sage
*****

Reged: 09/18/10

Loc: Singapore
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: chboss]
      #5627475 - 01/17/13 05:59 AM

Hi Chris...

I can understand your suggestion , which may also be the same as many other CN members, on the comparison be made against another 6" APO...., sounds logical....

Unfortunately, in my country, there are many people using 5" or smaller triplets APO, and as of what I know , for the 6" APO, one is my friend, Richard, which has the APM 6" triplet APO....

Perhaps I need to ask around, and if there is someone who has one, and willing to do this shoot out, with me, then that will be great....

Regards

James Ling


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chboss
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/24/08

Loc: Zurich Switzerland
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: James Ling]
      #5627544 - 01/17/13 07:34 AM

Yes I was thinking about Richards APM 152.... I met him about two years ago when staying in Singapore for a few days. Unfortunately there was no time for some stargazing.

Keep the comparison and test results coming I will follow your progress.

best regards
Chris


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James Ling
sage
*****

Reged: 09/18/10

Loc: Singapore
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: chboss]
      #5643596 - 01/25/13 11:48 PM

Quote:

Yes I was thinking about Richards APM 152.... I met him about two years ago when staying in Singapore for a few days. Unfortunately there was no time for some stargazing.

Keep the comparison and test results coming I will follow your progress.

best regards
Chris




Hi Chris and ALL....

Weather has been bad for the past few weeks after the 1st shootout between my friend, Richard's 6" APM triplet APO, and my 152 APM ED APO....

Today, as of now, noon time (GMT +8), the weather is sunny and seems great , with blue skies and some clouds, which if it continues till this evening, Richard and me will be doing the repeat of the shootout for these 2 APM scopes again.....
Tonight full moon also will be great to test the ED APO.....

Hope all goes smooth and some valuable comparison be made between these 2 APM scopes.....

Regards

James Ling


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zjc26138
Loved By All
*****

Reged: 02/24/05

Loc: Mingo Junction, Ohio
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: James Ling]
      #5643623 - 01/26/13 12:11 AM

Hope you have clear skies tonight James. Looking forward to your report as aLways.

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dweller25
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/30/07

Loc: Lancashire, UK
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5657510 - 02/02/13 02:04 AM

Any updates James ?

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James Ling
sage
*****

Reged: 09/18/10

Loc: Singapore
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: dweller25]
      #5657816 - 02/02/13 09:57 AM Attachment (65 downloads)

Hi David , Zach Coldebella and ALL...

Sorry for not able to provide any update of the 2nd shoot out , at this moment......

Last weekend, Richard is out of town, and back quite late , as such we tried to plan for the next day....

But Sunday weather is not promising, as such we did not meet up for the 2nd shoot out....

Today, weather is quite good, but Richard is probably away to Malaysia again, as I could not contact him...

Perhaps I see whether he will be back tomorrow , and arrange the shoot out, if tomorrow's weather is good.

As for my other plans, I have mounted my 10" mewlon onto the top of this 152 APM ED APO, ready for coming side walk......

Regards

James Ling


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t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: James Ling]
      #5657923 - 02/02/13 11:09 AM

Thats not on a G-11, is it?

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johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: t.r.]
      #5658828 - 02/02/13 08:05 PM

Ay yi yi... that looks a bit precarious!

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mblack
Throw me a bone here
*****

Reged: 10/31/05

Loc: Florida, USA.
Re: APM 152 ED APO #002 new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5658866 - 02/02/13 08:27 PM

Quote:

Ay yi yi... that looks a bit precarious!




Yes indeed. Slippage comes to mind, unless those rings on the refractor are torqued down.

James, I am assuming you have this rig secured, because it looks like a disaster in waiting.



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